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Grundz wrote: Ive been toying with the idea of dipping into IG for more long range artillery, and cheaper, betterish, flamer tanks instead of flamer transports
Which works outside of ITC, but if you ally in IG, in ITC you'll lose out points for best faction SoB. You'll be lumped into Imperial Soup faction and good luck winning any fame that way.
(I know, this only applies if you play in ITC Tourneys and blah blah blah.)
Oh no, what will I do if I don't score enough imaginary points at a tourney I have no chance at placing in?!?
Why wouldnt you be able to place?
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Because its highly unlikely sisters in its current form are going to place well, especially when I am playing them, hah.
I'm eying a valorous heart brigade, 3x exo's, 6 sisters squads with one melta, 6 min seraphim with a plasma pistol, one stormbolter dominion
then the support trimmings and 6x transports, though its in the air what mix of immolators, melta immolators and repressors I want to run, putting a meltagun in an immolator is sort of a waste, multimelta immolators are attractive compared to a repressor with a multimelta in it, I'm leaning towards nixing most of the squad multimeltas for stormbolters and instead strapping 9 hunter killers onto the vehicles for the alpha strike.
I dont know, its most likely better to just drop one immolator to pad out the squads and then use one repressor as a leapfrog vehicle rather than all this screwing around.
Fun fact: RAW your squad can hop in a repressor and if it hasn't moved, they count as not having moved when firing their multimelta, XD
OPEN THE RELIQUARIES: 1 additional Relic of the Ecclesiarchy
Operative Requisition Sanctioned
Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart
+ HQ +
Canoness: Bolt pistol, Power maul, Relic: Braizer of Eternal Flame
Canoness: Chainsword, Combi-plasma, Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief
Canoness: Bolt pistol, Power maul
Celestine
+ Troops +
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Because its highly unlikely sisters in its current form are going to place well, especially when I am playing them, hah.
I'm eying a valorous heart brigade, 3x exo's, 6 sisters squads with one melta, 6 min seraphim with a plasma pistol, one stormbolter dominion
then the support trimmings and 6x transports, though its in the air what mix of immolators, melta immolators and repressors I want to run, putting a meltagun in an immolator is sort of a waste, multimelta immolators are attractive compared to a repressor with a multimelta in it, I'm leaning towards nixing most of the squad multimeltas for stormbolters and instead strapping 9 hunter killers onto the vehicles for the alpha strike.
I dont know, its most likely better to just drop one immolator to pad out the squads and then use one repressor as a leapfrog vehicle rather than all this screwing around.
Fun fact: RAW your squad can hop in a repressor and if it hasn't moved, they count as not having moved when firing their multimelta, XD
OPEN THE RELIQUARIES: 1 additional Relic of the Ecclesiarchy
Operative Requisition Sanctioned
Order Convictions: Order: Valorous Heart
+ HQ +
Canoness: Bolt pistol, Power maul, Relic: Braizer of Eternal Flame
Canoness: Chainsword, Combi-plasma, Relic: Book of St. Lucius, Warlord, Warlord Trait: 5. Indomitable Belief
Canoness: Bolt pistol, Power maul
Celestine
+ Troops +
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Battle Sister Squad 2x Battle Sister
Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Sororitas Repressor: Heavy flamer, Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Storm bolter
Sororitas Repressor: Heavy flamer, Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Storm bolter
Sororitas Repressor: Heavy flamer, Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Storm bolter
Weird. I placed 3rd recently at a good sized event. Lost to the guy who won it all. I think Sisters of Battle are very very capable. I don'ty use Forge World of course, but did play a mechanized version and had remarkably worse results than i get now. So it's something to consider if you're looking at different ideas for your list.
Also if you moved you moved. It doesn't matter that tthe Repressor did not. While any penalties for moving are yours to bear while inside it doesn't absolve you of any you created for yourself. I wouldn't try that at an event...
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
ERJAK wrote: Sisters are...somewhat capable in the most boring, tedious way it's possible to be capable.
4++ bubble up and hope you die slower than them. Yay.
Honestly, I'd rather lose.
I'd be inclined to say somewhat capable in a predictable way, rather than boring and tedious, but maybe that's my mellower meta talking. Sure, I almost always deploy in some kind of Cathedral for the 4++, but I usually break out of it by Turn 2, throw double Dominions out to try to one-shot a knight, or shove a Rhino-load of Heavy Flamers into the teeth of a giant blob of something, or try to get Bloody Rose Celestians into melee, or try to burn down a poorly-screened HQ with DSing Seraphim, or pick a fight for Celestine and a gang of Canonesses. My games are usually pretty exciting and rarely the same one to the next... but again, maybe that's something I can get away with in a semi-comp setting.
I find this sort of banter funny. Setting conditions on your own fun is...well its Crotchety AF to tell me you refuse to win with a fundamentally sound list..
Anywho, thought I'd update y'all.
Took the "boring" Sisters of Battle to a tournament today, had to go about an hour to get there but that's cool. No biggee.
The "boring" Sisters took 1st place. I went second in every match. I voluntarily went second in game 3.
Celestine stood with her army all of the time it took the enemy to shoot me round 1, and then she was off and running. No castling with her, as some with less imagination appear to think you must.
In round one it was Adeptus Mechanicus. Quite the striking army. It had a Knight of course and the big unit of strider walker things, and Duncrawlers, all with some form of accuracy coolness. Damn DuneCrawlers are quite tough.
In any event, I never killed that Knight but I did wipe out most of the army.
IN the second round I played against Astra Militarum with the buffed out Bullgryns, the usual Mortar spam, Vigilus Artillery, Straken, Priest and so on. It wasunualy in that it didn't have a Knight in it, but did have a really mean pair of command tanks, one of which plagued me for a good part of the game with its punishers wailing away on me. His smash Captains were nigh unkillable and I tried but they just tied me up something fierce. However between the Seraphim dropping in and really wreaking havoc in th backfield., and the absolutely frightening Arco-Flagellents who powned everything they touched, I have to say, it was a pretty fun game that felt grindy at first,but we prevailed.
Third game was against Space Wolves. The Wulfen and Thundercavalry were real. herald Deathwolf and the Wulfen appeared on my right, the other wulfen to my left and the Thundercavalry up th middle and there was no escaping the encirclement forever but I did a LOT of advancing away from the Wulfen on one side while trying ot beat them up on the other and boy do those guys take it like champs.
The Blood Claws were equally effective, smashing into me where they could and rending me to pieces wit htheir highly accurate and numerous attacks. Savage if not sturdy, but they held their own quite well. the Faithful 32 rained mortars on my head every round and had some truly fantastic efforts.
ERJAK wrote: Sisters are...somewhat capable in the most boring, tedious way it's possible to be capable.
4++ bubble up and hope you die slower than them. Yay.
Honestly, I'd rather lose.
I'd be inclined to say somewhat capable in a predictable way, rather than boring and tedious, but maybe that's my mellower meta talking. Sure, I almost always deploy in some kind of Cathedral for the 4++, but I usually break out of it by Turn 2, throw double Dominions out to try to one-shot a knight, or shove a Rhino-load of Heavy Flamers into the teeth of a giant blob of something, or try to get Bloody Rose Celestians into melee, or try to burn down a poorly-screened HQ with DSing Seraphim, or pick a fight for Celestine and a gang of Canonesses. My games are usually pretty exciting and rarely the same one to the next... but again, maybe that's something I can get away with in a semi-comp setting.
No one is trying to lose here. Lol. I play in shark infested waters here, and the competition can be kinda fierce. I frankly don't always enjoy it, since i do tend to play less conventional lists (and Armies as the Sisters of Battle will obviously attest to). The competitior in me is strong though, and I'm willing to scrap with anyone, even with unconventional stuff. Or boring stuff.
Sisters of Battle have never really come in "oh muh gad, they're COMIN, PA!!!" flavors. We've always been Veteran Guardsman with Power Armor. We've MOSTLY been played best on foot, even though a good majority of us desperately want transports to be our golden ticket. We just have always been what we are: a short range army with some built in mystical protection from "The Empruh". and a little bit of attitude when we get up on ya', but "killer builds" isn't what we do. No ones quaking in their boots when we stride to the table, list in hand. If anything they are...quizzical about it. Intrigued. that's about it.
My point is, I can't speak for the meta in any particular area but I know this: no one is trying to lose to you. You gottta go take the victories you get, and you have to come to grips with the fact that all armies have an identity. Ours is workman-like. Ours isn't flashy. Ours is a hard hat and a lunch pail. A REAL FANCY looking lunchpail.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/05/19 07:38:05
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
My point is, I can't speak for the meta in any particular area.....
Say what?
Local tournaments with sub 20 players mostly dont really net lists and you always have some that do w/e they want, then you have players that bring lists to counter the local top player.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/19 16:22:22
My point is, I can't speak for the meta in any particular area.....
Say what?
Local tournaments with sub 20 players mostly dont really net lists and you always have some that do w/e they want, then you have players that bring lists to counter the local top player.
Sorry, I was just surprised Jancoran would say that after spending a large number of pages in this thread telling players that foot Sisters work well in his meta and will work well in others. Since his meta is competitive and ours most obviously isn't.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/19 17:57:20
My point is, I can't speak for the meta in any particular area.....
Say what?
Local tournaments with sub 20 players mostly dont really net lists and you always have some that do w/e they want, then you have players that bring lists to counter the local top player.
Sorry, I was just surprised Jancoran would say that after spending a large number of pages in this thread telling players that foot Sisters work well in his meta and will work well in others. Since his meta is competitive and ours most obviously isn't.
Lol ah ok, yeah. I used to like Foot sisters, bu now that Acts are.. blah, and vehicles can get a 4++, i just go tank sisters now.
My point is, I can't speak for the meta in any particular area.....
Say what?
Local tournaments with sub 20 players mostly dont really net lists and you always have some that do w/e they want, then you have players that bring lists to counter the local top player.
Sorry, I was just surprised Jancoran would say that after spending a large number of pages in this thread telling players that foot Sisters work well in his meta and will work well in others. Since his meta is competitive and ours most obviously isn't.
First no one said anything about yours. So that's you editorializing, not me. Second, I was responding specifically to Macphail. His comment was about his local groups way of playing less competitively .
My point was (specifically) that I cannot speak for other metas in that regard (their non-competitiveness specifically), but no meta I have played in features players trying to lose, so I don't think that it being "less competitive" makes it more nor less likely that you can play them successfully. I used my own meta as living proof that you can play them in any meta because it handles the harshest meta, using an army list that doesn't incite fear nor visions of netlists.
Lol ah ok, yeah. I used to like Foot sisters, bu now that Acts are.. blah, and vehicles can get a 4++, i just go tank sisters now.
I started with Tank sisters and rapidly learned the error of that. I know I said it before, but I was 7-4 with them, 4+ Invulnerbale and all. I was barely losing, or barely winning. So I suppose they were competitive in the literal sense, but when it came to actually scoring points for tournament play, they were just "OK" and I gave up the ghost on it.
It was a shame because I really enjoyed the mobile warfare kind of feel to it. It's how I'd prefer to play them. It's how I DID play them in 6th and 7th Edition and at first 8th. Perhaps when the new Codex comes out I will be all over Armor again.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/20 01:08:05
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
First no one said anything about yours. So that's you editorializing, not me. Second, I was responding specifically to Macphail. His comment was about his local groups way of playing less competitively .
My point was (specifically) that I cannot speak for other metas in that regard (their non-competitiveness specifically), but no meta I have played in features players trying to lose, so I don't think that it being "less competitive" makes it more nor less likely that you can play them successfully. I used my own meta as living proof that you can play them in any meta because it handles the harshest meta, using an army list that doesn't incite fear nor visions of netlists
I'm not editorializing anything. You have routinely discounted anyone who has stated that a foot Sisters list simply doesn't work in their meta in this thread. Reinforcing your claims by pointing out that you can make it work in your "competitive" meta.
I had given up on debating it with as every time I commented that I was glad it was working for you, but it simply hadn't for me was met with comments by you implying your meta was more competitive than mine.
The two things are impossible to compare. But the players I face (who usually field lists plucked from top performing GT lists) certainly know how to put an all foot list seeking to get in close at a disadvantage.
Like I have said, the trick may work against opponents who have never seen a foot sisters list, but not against any competent player who knows anything about it. Those comments were met by you again implying you played in a competitive meta and would better know the truth.
I was surprised to see a comment that you suddenly couldn't judge a meta you didn't play in. You already have many times in this thread. Implying you haven't is silly and while you claim your meta to be the "harshest" above while still claiming you can't judge that of others is just more of the same.
Jancoran wrote: You gottta go take the victories you get, and you have to come to grips with the fact that all armies have an identity. Ours is workman-like. Ours isn't flashy. Ours is a hard hat and a lunch pail. A REAL FANCY looking lunchpail.
I don't buy this for a second. I've been playing mech only sisters for the last 5 years and have had a lot of fun losses and fun victories. Win or lose, I have no desire to play foot sisters because it isn't fun to me. If this is their only viable tactic anymore, then to shelves with them. I'm in it for the fun action, not slow attrition grind. There's no fun for me in losing more slowly than the enemy until the clock runs out.
I've routinely pointed out that they work in any meta. That's correct. Because if they work in a crazy meta like mine, there is zero reason they won't in others.
You act as if we're playing using different rules sets, but we aren't. There's only one rule set. We aren't using different codex's either. I go to the SAME LVO you would, I go to the SAME Bay Area Open you would, I go to the SAME size GT events you do and not one of those events has players cut off from the internet that I am aware of!
So while I don't know your meta by wrote, I know you can do it in any of them. Suggesting that theres some secret enclave of players whose mysterious ways of playing can be unknowable to me is poppycock. The word meta barely has any meaning in this day and age, becausethe sources of information are all the same, and copious.
But if you want to maintain the illusion that "you just can't play it at the top tables" somewhere, I'm simply not buying. I've done it. I just did it. I'm not buying at all. No one has a "special meta" I can't imagine. Lol. I doubt anyone does.
Jancoran wrote: You gottta go take the victories you get, and you have to come to grips with the fact that all armies have an identity. Ours is workman-like. Ours isn't flashy. Ours is a hard hat and a lunch pail. A REAL FANCY looking lunchpail.
I don't buy this for a second. I've been playing mech only sisters for the last 5 years and have had a lot of fun losses and fun victories. Win or lose, I have no desire to play foot sisters because it isn't fun to me. If this is their only viable tactic anymore, then to shelves with them. I'm in it for the fun action, not slow attrition grind. There's no fun for me in losing more slowly than the enemy until the clock runs out.
FUN is a different topic, isn't it? As for fun, I cannot tell you what is fun. I can tell you what's effective. I can tell you that the way you described people "having" to play that force doesn't sound in anyway accurate to me and sounds far more like postulating. I have not played them that way. My battle reports reflect that. So if you want to argue metas, thats one thing. If you wanna argue fun, that's another. I ALSO prefer to play mobile. I just don't shelf it just because I don't get my way. Lol.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/05/20 15:46:04
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I've routinely pointed out that they work in any meta. That's correct. Because if they work in a crazy meta like mine, there is zero reason they won't in others.
They don't work in my meta. I played five games with a foot list myself amidst the 30 games I played before sending in feedback for the Beta. A player in my group still plays foot/sera/exo's with his Sisters and regularly gets crushed. Now I know your meta is "crazy" and nobody else plays in one as good as yours. And I know you just won't hear otherwise. I have beat him twelve times in a row with various lists.
That's fine, it just surprised me you would admit you don't know everything about other meta's. You obviously just know that your meta is better than mine, deviants, erjak's and the like. Which is cool, your story, tell it how you like.
Foot Sisters are hands down the only way to play ITC style missions. Castle Bubble, Bloody Rose. 30 Seraphim 45 battle sisters 5-10 dominions. If you seriously think that tank sisters can play the objective game that foot sisters can you’re sorely mistaken. No matter how on point your castle set up is you’re never going to dominate objectives with tanks because they’ll get shot up when they go to cap obj. Each tank is 10 girls or more in points. Also, anyone who thinks melta doms are still a thing is kidding themselves. Mathematically a holy trinity squad of doms is more output per points for 2-3 cp. Seraphim more than cover your anti tank with exorcist backup. This is the list I consistently do well with in multiple metas. I don’t have repentia so I’m not running them but I would replace the preacher and hospitaller with crusaders and repentia, also dropping one of the dom squads.
Dominion Squad [5 PL, 78pts] . Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Dominion Squad [5 PL, 78pts] . Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
++ Total: [115 PL, 1,999pts, 17CP] ++
Created with BattleScribe
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, if you’re having trouble with foot sisters getting shot off the table, put some terrain on your tables? Or don’t Mongoloid charge up the middle?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/20 18:19:01
Grundz wrote: how are your seraphim doing anti tank? they can't drop and pop and anyone sane is going to shoot them up(?)
Lock units in combat, don’t deepstrike the inferno squads. Let them shoot at your exorcists first turn, hide behind terrain? 15” move plus fight twice = 27” threat range? They have a 3++ in the bubble, and only the infernos need to get in for anti tank... they’re very versatile screens and punch really hard.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW I have noticed a lack of primers that are updated for sisters. I can/will likely be be making one based on my experience, I can go into detail about each data sheet and how my experiences with them have been. I will go into details of how some specific matchups will play eventually. And can post updated pictures and reports from regular games and tourneys if anyone is interested.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/20 18:54:25
I played a pretty challenging game (and also a highly enjoyable one) against Death Guard this weekend. Are others finding this army a tough matchup? I feel like S/T matchup are unfavorable both ways... I was mostly needing 5s to wound his infantry, shooting S8 AT at T8 heavies, and getting wounded on 2s by Blight Launchers and 3s by Plague Spitters. FNP is a tough nut to crack with zero mortal wound output. The range profiles of the two armies are similar, but his 18" rapid fire and 24" better bolters outgunned me. My MSU build served up plenty of VPs. Ultimately, I took it on VPs by a close margin with very favorable Turn 5 cards in a Tactical Escalation mission.
I ran Brigade +Battalion with 3 Exos, 3 mounted Doms, 2 Seraphim, and a few fun oddities like Celestians and HF Rets, plus a pile of BSS. My opponent had Typhus and a DP, 3x Plague Marines, 3x Plagueburst Crawlers, 3x Mephetic Blighthaulers, a Fetid Bloatdrone, and a squad of 6 Deathshroud Terminators.
He vaporized all three Dominions Turn 1 after they failed to bag a single target in the alpha strike. I managed to get the Blighthaulers off the board before they could do too much damage to my transports. I got the Bloatdrone with shooting and the Demon Prince in melee, but took heavy losses in the open once the combat wrapped. I left him a DS hole in the midfield and paid for it with an Exorcist smashed by terminators... I continued to feed BSS to the termies all game to keep them from advancing. Typhus killed an unsupported Celestine once and the terminators got her the second time. My Seraphim did an admirable job of harassing his backfield and stealing his objectives. It was trending toward a shootout: could I get his Crawlers with Exo fire before they mopped up my infantry screens, and was I going to find an answer to the terminators?
I feel like I might have been better off positioning Doms in transports for a good beta strike and letting my Exos enjoy their dominant range for a turn. Running out early just got me my head chopped off. I should have screened better against DSing termies; I failed all my Deny rolls against Typhus, he buffed the heck out of them, and they would have wrecked all three Exos if I hadn't fed my army to them two squads at a time. I didn't have a good answer to the Crawlers; I couldnt melee them and the Exos were busy with Haulers and then Deathshroud. IP Seraphim might have worked against Crawlers because they have to get so close... but list building solutions don't help my tactics. My opponent theorized that he'd have won easily if I hadn't charged empty Rhinos into Plagueburst Crawlers on multiple turns and he's probably right.
MacPhail wrote: I played a pretty challenging game (and also a highly enjoyable one) against Death Guard this weekend. Are others finding this army a tough matchup? I feel like S/T matchup are unfavorable both ways... I was mostly needing 5s to wound his infantry, shooting S8 AT at T8 heavies, and getting wounded on 2s by Blight Launchers and 3s by Plague Spitters. FNP is a tough nut to crack with zero mortal wound output. The range profiles of the two armies are similar, but his 18" rapid fire and 24" better bolters outgunned me. My MSU build served up plenty of VPs. Ultimately, I took it on VPs by a close margin with very favorable Turn 5 cards in a Tactical Escalation mission.
I ran Brigade +Battalion with 3 Exos, 3 mounted Doms, 2 Seraphim, and a few fun oddities like Celestians and HF Rets, plus a pile of BSS. My opponent had Typhus and a DP, 3x Plague Marines, 3x Plagueburst Crawlers, 3x Mephetic Blighthaulers, a Fetid Bloatdrone, and a squad of 6 Deathshroud Terminators.
He vaporized all three Dominions Turn 1 after they failed to bag a single target in the alpha strike. I managed to get the Blighthaulers off the board before they could do too much damage to my transports. I got the Bloatdrone with shooting and the Demon Prince in melee, but took heavy losses in the open once the combat wrapped. I left him a DS hole in the midfield and paid for it with an Exorcist smashed by terminators... I continued to feed BSS to the termies all game to keep them from advancing. Typhus killed an unsupported Celestine once and the terminators got her the second time. My Seraphim did an admirable job of harassing his backfield and stealing his objectives. It was trending toward a shootout: could I get his Crawlers with Exo fire before they mopped up my infantry screens, and was I going to find an answer to the terminators?
I feel like I might have been better off positioning Doms in transports for a good beta strike and letting my Exos enjoy their dominant range for a turn. Running out early just got me my head chopped off. I should have screened better against DSing termies; I failed all my Deny rolls against Typhus, he buffed the heck out of them, and they would have wrecked all three Exos if I hadn't fed my army to them two squads at a time. I didn't have a good answer to the Crawlers; I couldnt melee them and the Exos were busy with Haulers and then Deathshroud. IP Seraphim might have worked against Crawlers because they have to get so close... but list building solutions don't help my tactics. My opponent theorized that he'd have won easily if I hadn't charged empty Rhinos into Plagueburst Crawlers on multiple turns and he's probably right.
So, does anyone have good tricks vs. DG?
I play against a highly competitive Death Guard/Demon Player who has used a similar list on a regular basis. Feel no pain is a big pain in the ass. My advise on Termies is using your heavy flamers on them, if you can’t just ignore them, they’re only 4” move. You did the right thing against nurgle, don’t try to attrition him or you’ll just end up losing 90% of the time to a ridiculous FNP roll or something similar (6 damage I take 1 instead) Take out typhus and prince first, get rid of all the auras. Crawlers are way better than haulers if you’re running tanks, so take them out first. You’re playing tax objectives so it’s slightly different per game because coin toss points. And yeah, if you can’t kill something, charge it with a tank, anything that isn’t shooting is good for you. Haulers are easily taken down in melee, but make sure you sneak a corner or something, Celestine can take the flamers pretty well. I can’t stress enough to not let them get auras freely, make them work for it, spread out your army. I am on my phone right now and the site is terrible on iPhone, is there anything else specific that I didn’t cover here? If you’re taking allies null zone is very good, I personally don’t take allies because of the way ITC scores, but it doesn’t seem like you play ITC. Feel free to post more questions as I know a lot about this matchup.
Caprican wrote: Foot Sisters are hands down the only way to play ITC style missions. Castle Bubble, Bloody Rose. 30 Seraphim 45 battle sisters 5-10 dominions. If you seriously think that tank sisters can play the objective game that foot sisters can you’re sorely mistaken. No matter how on point your castle set up is you’re never going to dominate objectives with tanks because they’ll get shot up when they go to cap obj. Each tank is 10 girls or more in points. Also, anyone who thinks melta doms are still a thing is kidding themselves. Mathematically a holy trinity squad of doms is more output per points for 2-3 cp. Seraphim more than cover your anti tank with exorcist backup. This is the list I consistently do well with in multiple metas. I don’t have repentia so I’m not running them but I would replace the preacher and hospitaller with crusaders and repentia, also dropping one of the dom squads.
Dominion Squad [5 PL, 78pts] . Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Dominion Squad [5 PL, 78pts] . Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
++ Total: [115 PL, 1,999pts, 17CP] ++
Created with BattleScribe
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, if you’re having trouble with foot sisters getting shot off the table, put some terrain on your tables? Or don’t Mongoloid charge up the middle?
Yup.
17 CP's. I'm impressed. Mine is a Brigade at 15. I like the Obsec. My meltas and the like are buried deep, which helps me maintain the firepower longer and the Bolters do work en masse.
I agree though in principle. My daughter likes to use the Hospitaler. I used it a number of times and liked it also, so i like that you have that in there. It's not in my current list because: Points. STRONG shout out to the Arco-Flagellents. If you get a chance to proxy some, I would. They are ruthless. They float away in a stiff breeze but are oh so good if you can leap them from target to target in cover/behind things and so on.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grundz wrote: how are your seraphim doing anti tank? they can't drop and pop and anyone sane is going to shoot them up(?)
...if they can. Remember that the board is pretty much flooded turn two with Sisters and so while its a nice theory to say they will prioritize the Seraphim, will they? Maybe. Maybe not. There are only so many bullets. I often bring mine in turn 3 and that is when so much of the enemy has been whittled that its no longer necessarily possible to do that.
Seraphim did WORK in my second game at the tournament this weekend. I popped them in and hid them, took some shots and then they started blasting tanks to pieces. Three rounds, three tanks. Plus the entangling they could do.
He's using more than i do. i use 15, he uses 30. But timing is a thing and sometimes the best choices ARENT the Seraphim. Sometimes the enemy just HAS no good choices.
Grundz wrote: how are your seraphim doing anti tank? they can't drop and pop and anyone sane is going to shoot them up(?)
Lock units in combat, don’t deepstrike the inferno squads. Let them shoot at your exorcists first turn, hide behind terrain? 15” move plus fight twice = 27” threat range? They have a 3++ in the bubble, and only the infernos need to get in for anti tank... they’re very versatile screens and punch really hard.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW I have noticed a lack of primers that are updated for sisters. I can/will likely be be making one based on my experience, I can go into detail about each data sheet and how my experiences with them have been. I will go into details of how some specific matchups will play eventually. And can post updated pictures and reports from regular games and tourneys if anyone is interested.
I have offered up my battle reports to people and although they are sometimes more narrative styled, it's there.
I have 100 models in the army. In ITC, i use my small Sisters squad and Arco-Flagellents as Engineers. I use the 5 Squads of Sisters as a surging firebase, although I very often split them into two groups, because objectives are a thing. Celestine stands around turn 1 to shield folks and then launches at the enemy to take objectives in the middle. Then afterwards she launches forward to wreak havoc, so she is rarely near anyone after she moves. I forego the bodyguards like most people because they wrote the rules for them like Garbage. If they intercepted like Drones, sure. But they don't.
The Exorcists usually split up to avoid making easy targets for Smash Captains and the like although that isn't ALWAYS possible given line of sight. But its the plan usually. I paid for not doing it in the last tournament but luckily it didn't cost me the game. Sometimes you just don't have a better place to place them.
Seraphim show up later, OFTEN in round 3 (and i am notorious for forgetting to deploy them, and did so at the top table of all places and then yesterday again!!! 250 points of my army goooone). I also will deploy them as screens against units like Genestealers who can advance all the way across the board. Tri-pointing makes the Seraphim IDEAL screeners in the EXTREME. Having no Seraphim means the enemy, if they are canny, will totally tri-point you and then you're really in trouble.
I move the Sisters of Battle just about every round and they almost invariably end up in two fire groups like i said. They provide more than ample cover for the characters so that at the opportune moment the Canoness can strike. Uriah goes with the Arco-Flagellents of course and they usually try to sneak from cover to cover until there is a target.
In ITC games this setup does quite a few good things. Enemies can max out Kingslayer every game against me. Well known downside. But the upside is that Celestine usually does far more for you than this fact would counterbalance.
Also, missions 2,4,6 allow me TWO chances to go second, and my list typically wants to go second. For us, that was a great change. Most opponents will choose to go first, which is good. but in 2,4 and 6, i can deploy first, he deploys as if Im going first...but I don't, making his first turn suuuuuck. A little strategy goes a long way.
I'm also kind of forcing the enemy to take certain Secondaries against me. Kingslayer, Old School and Marked For Death are kind of the only ones that make sense against me. Any others are going to be iffy choices for anyone. Knowing that going in is great because I can sort of deploy accordingly to rob them of points (all but Kingslayer, which I just concede as a cost of doing business). People pick Reaper against me a LOT I've noticed, which has helped me. My opponents on Saturday got 1,2, and 1 points for Reaper respectively from me. Advantage Sisters. I guess just because we are "Squishy and numerous" people like that one, but it hasn't been paying off for them.
I am really enjoying the list. 20-2 is what I'm at now I think. Taken 1st, 3rd and 4th at different events (one wasn't ITC technically).
The Arco-Flagellents require practice. If you plan to use them, be patient. It took me some time to figure them out. JUST SO EASY to kill. You have to really think through where to deploy them and then where they are planning to move in round 2 and then who they will attack so they aren't caught in the open round 3... They are definite "chess piece" unit that you can't just put somewhere and HOPE they can get a charge off. If you practice wit htem, you will see the opportunities but dont get antsy, and expose them needlessly. That is fo sho. Just love it when they go off. It';s like watching a bomb explode (right before their hearts do).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/20 20:40:10
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I play against a highly competitive Death Guard/Demon Player who has used a similar list on a regular basis. Feel no pain is a big pain in the ass. My advise on Termies is using your heavy flamers on them, if you can’t just ignore them, they’re only 4” move. You did the right thing against nurgle, don’t try to attrition him or you’ll just end up losing 90% of the time to a ridiculous FNP roll or something similar (6 damage I take 1 instead) Take out typhus and prince first, get rid of all the auras. Crawlers are way better than haulers if you’re running tanks, so take them out first. You’re playing tax objectives so it’s slightly different per game because coin toss points. And yeah, if you can’t kill something, charge it with a tank, anything that isn’t shooting is good for you. Haulers are easily taken down in melee, but make sure you sneak a corner or something, Celestine can take the flamers pretty well. I can’t stress enough to not let them get auras freely, make them work for it, spread out your army. I am on my phone right now and the site is terrible on iPhone, is there anything else specific that I didn’t cover here? If you’re taking allies null zone is very good, I personally don’t take allies because of the way ITC scores, but it doesn’t seem like you play ITC. Feel free to post more questions as I know a lot about this matchup.
Very solid insights... thanks for your response. I'm torn on crawlers vs. haulers in terms of target priority, but it probably depends on the board and whether transports or massed Sisters serve to advance the mission. I definitely felt like I'd traded 20+ Sisters for a couple of Rhinos by letting the crawlers live past Turn 2, but if I'd screened better against DS, I wouldn't have had to make the choice in the first place. Everything else you say makes a whole lot of sense, regardless of format.
I play against a highly competitive Death Guard/Demon Player who has used a similar list on a regular basis. Feel no pain is a big pain in the ass. My advise on Termies is using your heavy flamers on them, if you can’t just ignore them, they’re only 4” move. You did the right thing against nurgle, don’t try to attrition him or you’ll just end up losing 90% of the time to a ridiculous FNP roll or something similar (6 damage I take 1 instead) Take out typhus and prince first, get rid of all the auras. Crawlers are way better than haulers if you’re running tanks, so take them out first. You’re playing tax objectives so it’s slightly different per game because coin toss points. And yeah, if you can’t kill something, charge it with a tank, anything that isn’t shooting is good for you. Haulers are easily taken down in melee, but make sure you sneak a corner or something, Celestine can take the flamers pretty well. I can’t stress enough to not let them get auras freely, make them work for it, spread out your army. I am on my phone right now and the site is terrible on iPhone, is there anything else specific that I didn’t cover here? If you’re taking allies null zone is very good, I personally don’t take allies because of the way ITC scores, but it doesn’t seem like you play ITC. Feel free to post more questions as I know a lot about this matchup.
Very solid insights... thanks for your response. I'm torn on crawlers vs. haulers in terms of target priority, but it probably depends on the board and whether transports or massed Sisters serve to advance the mission. I definitely felt like I'd traded 20+ Sisters for a couple of Rhinos by letting the crawlers live past Turn 2, but if I'd screened better against DS, I wouldn't have had to make the choice in the first place. Everything else you say makes a whole lot of sense, regardless of format.
Obviously board state matters, I'm just giving generalizations on priorities. Don't forget, as I do sometimes, to use your reroll or + to wound stratagems. If you can get suffer not the witch and Holy Trinity off on Typhus you're wounding on 4s with Bolters/Flamers, 2s with Meltas, 3s w/ HV Flamers/Bolters, Rerolling all Failed Wounds, because he is a psyker. I love Holy Trinity against T8 Models as well as it makes you 3s to wound with meltas, and you can use the strat to reroll 1s(because you'll probably be making them +1 to shoot) if you get off the act of faith, on wounds. I've found that my Holy Trinity Squad (Combi-Flamer, Melta, 3 SB Doms) Can 1 shot most things with a few command points sunk into them, obviously they die immediately after but its for the low price of 78 pts( 77 if you take flamer and combi melta but I like being able to shoot with bolter at -1 and flamer auto hits, also the fringe case where if you're within 12 but not within 8 you can fire all your guns.) The list I play against uses Epidemius, who is a large pain in the ass, and he hides him behind his 3 tanks, he also was playing the Bell with Great Unclean One to resurrect the Crawlers. He's now running a CSM List w/ DG, TSons, and Black Legion. It is a lot easier to deal with, but puts out more damage. I cant recommend taking the Stratagem Assassin enough, depending on terrain and characters I alternate between Eversor and Vindicaire against his lists. Culexus is very good against Smite armies, as you're not taking a penalty to Deny the Witch (Because you're not a psyker). Callidus I love the model but she's just not that great, unless you need to kill some low lead, high Armor guys.
I seem to be playing my sisters a little different than what has been brought up so far. Sisters are my main army and even with allies they usually make up the bulk of the army. Normally the sister-chunk look something like this:
Bloody Rose
canoness
- plasma pistol, power sword (to be transformed into that sweet uber-sword-relic)
15 battle sisters
- 2 meltas, combiflamer, power maul
15 battle sisters
- 2 meltas, combiflamer, power maul
5 battle sisters
- 3 storm bolters
2 preachers
5 dominions
- 5 storm bolters
Around 640p and 6 faith points.
This is the bulk that I always work around when creating either a pure sisters list or a list with allies. Sisters with the Bloody Rose order are insanely good. When a standard battle sister for 9pts get both good shooting and 3 S4 attacks (with mandatory preacher in tow) in CC you know they're going to get nerfed
++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++
+ HQ +
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Hurricane Bolter
This list has yet to lose in the ITC format (I haven't played hardcore eldars yet though...). It always delivers on mobility and being able to kill a unit a turn. As for secondaries these always vary, but so far the list is reliable in maxing these over 6 turns.
Quick run through of what the list does:
The ultracharacters are beatsticks. I usually keep one of the jump captain in a small castle with the thunderfires and mortis dread. The reason I run them as ultras is to be able to disengage and shoot with everything but the thunderfires. Speaking of thunderfires, these are mvps in the London ITC-format. They clear out chaff basically anywhere on the board with their indirect fire. The mortis dread is there for all the heavybolter dakka, and for 122p it's a steal. I used to fit it with twin autocannons, but since most chaff lists have single wound models I felt it to be overkill and if I were to shoot say an astra command tank the wound output would be like 2,5 wounds. The scouts are doing their thing, you know why people bring them.
The sisters are the real threat for reasons previously stated, they shoot like gods and they fight even better. I line them up with a 5-6" distance between so that they can disengage and have the other squad open up and charge. Using terrain and funneling the enemy you can lure them to assault your sisters. If they do, the unit they throw at you is usually dead come your shooting. If you keep your dominions close by you can erase almost anything with their storm bolters and the absurdely good blessed bolter strategem (prepare to have that disappear/nerfed :( ) To prove my point - last game I had funneled a wounded swarmlord into the middle and although he killed the 2 sisters that were there the trade was in my favor when I shot it to smithereens with my dominons. My opponent rolled one more failed dice than he should've.
If you reliably want to kill something make the sisters add one to hit rolls through AoF, hitting on 2s rerolling 1s is really good. Enact holy trinity strategem and point and click to what you want to erase or hurt badly.
The shieldcaptains need no introduction but a small note on how I use them is in order. They have two things to do: countercharge/debuff potential charges with tanglefoot grenade/hit before enemy while on an objective and moving to the back field during late game to harass and score objectives.
With all that being said, I appreciate criticism and suggestions. I'm an above-mediocre player trying to get better, and what better way to learn than from a community?
I seem to be playing my sisters a little different than what has been brought up so far. Sisters are my main army and even with allies they usually make up the bulk of the army. Normally the sister-chunk look something like this:
Bloody Rose
canoness
- plasma pistol, power sword (to be transformed into that sweet uber-sword-relic)
15 battle sisters
- 2 meltas, combiflamer, power maul
15 battle sisters
- 2 meltas, combiflamer, power maul
5 battle sisters
- 3 storm bolters
2 preachers
5 dominions
- 5 storm bolters
Around 640p and 6 faith points.
This is the bulk that I always work around when creating either a pure sisters list or a list with allies. Sisters with the Bloody Rose order are insanely good. When a standard battle sister for 9pts get both good shooting and 3 S4 attacks (with mandatory preacher in tow) in CC you know they're going to get nerfed
++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++
+ HQ +
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: Hurricane Bolter
This list has yet to lose in the ITC format (I haven't played hardcore eldars yet though...). It always delivers on mobility and being able to kill a unit a turn. As for secondaries these always vary, but so far the list is reliable in maxing these over 6 turns.
Quick run through of what the list does:
The ultracharacters are beatsticks. I usually keep one of the jump captain in a small castle with the thunderfires and mortis dread. The reason I run them as ultras is to be able to disengage and shoot with everything but the thunderfires. Speaking of thunderfires, these are mvps in the London ITC-format. They clear out chaff basically anywhere on the board with their indirect fire. The mortis dread is there for all the heavybolter dakka, and for 122p it's a steal. I used to fit it with twin autocannons, but since most chaff lists have single wound models I felt it to be overkill and if I were to shoot say an astra command tank the wound output would be like 2,5 wounds. The scouts are doing their thing, you know why people bring them.
The sisters are the real threat for reasons previously stated, they shoot like gods and they fight even better. I line them up with a 5-6" distance between so that they can disengage and have the other squad open up and charge. Using terrain and funneling the enemy you can lure them to assault your sisters. If they do, the unit they throw at you is usually dead come your shooting. If you keep your dominions close by you can erase almost anything with their storm bolters and the absurdely good blessed bolter strategem (prepare to have that disappear/nerfed :( ) To prove my point - last game I had funneled a wounded swarmlord into the middle and although he killed the 2 sisters that were there the trade was in my favor when I shot it to smithereens with my dominons. My opponent rolled one more failed dice than he should've.
If you reliably want to kill something make the sisters add one to hit rolls through AoF, hitting on 2s rerolling 1s is really good. Enact holy trinity strategem and point and click to what you want to erase or hurt badly.
The shieldcaptains need no introduction but a small note on how I use them is in order. They have two things to do: countercharge/debuff potential charges with tanglefoot grenade/hit before enemy while on an objective and moving to the back field during late game to harass and score objectives.
With all that being said, I appreciate criticism and suggestions. I'm an above-mediocre player trying to get better, and what better way to learn than from a community?
A few things pop up, I personally don’t play allies because of he way ITC is ranking factions now, but I certainly am not blind to their benefits and have picked up a box of shield captains ( haven’t put them together yet) . Yes your list would do very well, against most lists. Eldar would be a tough matchup, you have no synergy to protect your sisters. One thing of note that you will have to change is that you cannot have two priests in the same detachment. I highly recommend using a dialogus, also as far as I’m aware you cannot run an index canoness because she has a current data sheet, I’m not sure if that is an ITC ruling or a GW ruling though. I also feel for 2 pts more inferno pistols are a no brained over plasma. A lot of your cp is going to be used on the beginning of the game presumably making the bikes better and giving sisters a relic to deny psychics. I’m on my phone right now so I may right more later as I look over it again. Overall looks like a solid list, not something I would bring, but that’s just me. As for bloody rose, they will not nerf them, because guard can do the same thing for cheaper. The only thing that makes them better is they don’t need straken and they have power armor. They’re still hitting on 4s, rerolling 1s, maybe rerolling wounds of 1?
He can take 2 preachers in the same detachment. You might be thinking of Missionaries- which are limited to 1 per detachment and are the HQ preacher choice.
Fought a Grey Knight player today. Draigo, Crowe, couple Strike Squads, megasquad of Paladins or termies I forget which. Some Venerable Dreds and a Real big IG Super Heavy that wasted on my armor.
I cut off his deep strike and forced him in front of me. He eventually killed my Exorcists snd had s REAL good turn 3. My Seraphim came in r2 and one unit got blasted. The other two murdered his Super Heavy. Celestine killed his last Strike squad guy but got murdered by a Dread. Arcoflagellents finished Crowe.
At games end I laid down the smack on his Terminators and a couple Sersphim finished off Draigo after he cost them the Bonus point. Then went on to kill the crippled Dread.
Complete tabling.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
A few things pop up, I personally don’t play allies because of he way ITC is ranking factions now, but I certainly am not blind to their benefits and have picked up a box of shield captains ( haven’t put them together yet) . Yes your list would do very well, against most lists. Eldar would be a tough matchup, you have no synergy to protect your sisters. One thing of note that you will have to change is that you cannot have two priests in the same detachment. I highly recommend using a dialogus, also as far as I’m aware you cannot run an index canoness because she has a current data sheet, I’m not sure if that is an ITC ruling or a GW ruling though. I also feel for 2 pts more inferno pistols are a no brained over plasma. A lot of your cp is going to be used on the beginning of the game presumably making the bikes better and giving sisters a relic to deny psychics. I’m on my phone right now so I may right more later as I look over it again. Overall looks like a solid list, not something I would bring, but that’s just me. As for bloody rose, they will not nerf them, because guard can do the same thing for cheaper. The only thing that makes them better is they don’t need straken and they have power armor. They’re still hitting on 4s, rerolling 1s, maybe rerolling wounds of 1?
- - - - - -
I can take two preachers, as someone mentioned above you're probably thinking of Missionary. I'm not running an index canoness, just the eviscerator weapon choice which is ok as per GW flowchart of when to use index models/equipment.
The inferno vs plasma is interesting. I normally run inferno pistols, but I wanted hard hitting and a bit more range. However after overcharging and rolling two ones in yesterday's match I believe it might be poignant to change to inferno pistols or a stormbolter I'll see if I can find the point for a dialogus, she is situational, but it's nice to be able to reroll those AoF. However in my opinion your sisters list should be strong without the AoF. I see them as an added bonus, not an essential piece of the puzzle, so that when it goes off it adds to the hurt.
But thanks for the input, I'll rework the list and get back to you after my game against eldar
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
