BT Mixed armour

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**Brother Bartius**

Hi all.

I've done a search and came accross an old thread which while clarifying things slightly doesn't answer all my questions.

20 man squad (10 initiates, 10 neophytes) hit by AP4 weapons.

Are all the neophytes removed first(as they have no armour save against AP4) before the mixed rules rule comes in to effect?

If so is there an actual advantage fielding them as it seems that your paying 100pts for a ten wound meat shield that's surprisingly easy to shift in this day and age when AP4 is so prevalent?

Thoughts?

**5thelement**

Neophytes are awesome. The higher armour takes the saves first when the numbers are even. ...... You know what i may be wrong it may be your choice. Let me get back to you.

**Antonin**

If you read Page 37 (I think that's the correct page quote), it requires you to remove models which get no save first, then to start making saving throws.

Given that the neophytes get no armor save, it stands to reason that you have to pull them first, under that rule - even where that may contradict the usual majority armor saves, such as when you have two neophytes and 4 initiates. VERY poor rules writing, and I do not think that rule should be paid attention to in any way, nor do I think people actually do, in practice.

However, without broaching that idiocy, and limited to your example - the neophytes bite it first, because the two types of armor are even. In that instance, you take the worst armor first. So, consider the Inquisitor with retinue example: 2 sages (armor 6) 2 servitors (armor 4) and the inquisitor (armor 3). When shot at, the sages take it first, because they, with the worst armor, are equal to the number of armor 4 models.

The moral of this story? Take 10 initiates and 9 neophytes.

**Angelus Mortis**

Posted By Antonin on 02/26/2007 2:32 PM
If you read Page 37 (I think that's the correct page quote), it requires you to remove models which get no save first, then to start making saving throws.

Given that the neophytes get no armor save, it stands to reason that you have to pull them first, under that rule - even where that may contradict the usual majority armor saves, such as when you have two neophytes and 4 initiates. VERY poor rules writing, and I do not think that rule should be paid attention to in any way, nor do I think people actually do, in practice.

However, without broaching that idiocy, and limited to your example - the neophytes bite it first, because the two types of armor are even. In that instance, you take the worst armor first. So, consider the Inquisitor with retinue example: 2 sages (armor 6) 2 servitors (armor 4) and the inquisitor (armor 3). When shot at, the sages take it first, because they, with the worst armor, are equal to the number of armor 4 models.

The moral of this story? Take 10 initiates and 9 neophytes.

It's actually page 76. And I dont understand where people keep getting the phrase "take the models who dont get a save first" as that is nowhere in the rules under mixed armor at all. Its very simple and I think what is confusing is people are trying to read more into it than it needs.

Its broken down like this.

1) If you have an odd number of models , the majority save takes wounds first. For example, 5 Neophytes and 4 Initiates. The Neos take the wounds first, regardless of wether or not either will get a save based on AP.

2) If you have an even number, say 10 Neo and 10 Init, then the worst type is used first, regardless of wether or not they will get a save.

3) Any excess hits over the number of majority saves would carry over to the minority saves. For example, 7 Wounds to 5 Neo & 4 Init would be 5 wounds to Neo and 2 to Inits. If this is in excess of the number of models keep carrying over. For example, 15 hits to the same squad would be 5 to Neo, 4 to Init, then 5 more to Neo and 1 more to Inits.

If you have this come up in game it may be useful to do the first couple times it happens by reading straight out of the book step by step. After you do it once or twice its easy to remember.

**yakface**

Angelus has it correctly. The mixed armor rules specifically state they are used whenever a unit has different armor types.

The last example on page 76 even discusses a mixed armor unit being hit by power weapon wounds (that ignore armor saves).

So the answer to the original question: All wounds on a unit with mixed armor follow the mixed armor rules on page 76 for allocating wounds to the unit.

**Brother Bartius**

Many thanks guys that clarifies things a whole lot.

**Imriel**

the remove models with no saves first is for casualty removal which happens after models wounds are allocated. So you assign wounds as mixed armor tells you to, to majority armor save before others, then you remove models that get no save before rolling for those that do.

**Angelus Mortis**

Posted By Imriel on 02/27/2007 9:52 AM
the remove models with no saves first is for casualty removal which happens after models wounds are allocated. So you assign wounds as mixed armor tells you to, to majority armor save before others, then you remove models that get no save before rolling for those that do.

Ahh I see now. So people are confusing wound assignment with majority saves. Got it, thanks.