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In a recent tournament it was ruled that a squad need only take one pinning test per round.  So the question is does this hold true, or does pg 32 of the BGB top right paragraph say what I think it says?  I was firing Horrorfexes from a raider at a squad of Avengers, who made one, and then failed the second, but we were not sure if they had to take the second.

I think it says that you have to take multiple pinning test, but if you are pinned you do not take the 25% casualty from shooting which makes sense.  You are too busy staying low and hiding to run away.

My gracious opponent and I just moved on, but we were both curious, so what do you think?

Also, Wych weapons halve the WS of any model with an unmodified str 5 and under.  So a Hive Tyrant is Str 5, with a biomorph it becomes Str 6, so is this modified?  The ruling was no, but what was considered modified was say a bike or a powerfist. 

I appreciate your feedback.

You can take multiple pinning tests in a round. to be precise, each unit that fires at a target may cause a pinning test if it has applicable weaponry.

It says quite plainly on page 32 that a unit can take multiple pinning test in a turn. I don't see the confusion.

In the heat of the moment, we could not find the rule, but we just wanted to move on since we had 2 hours to play the game.  I just wanted to make sure.

What do you think about the modified strength score for a Tyrant vs Wych weapons?

The ruling was correct.  The Tyranid codex states that any changes made to a Tyranid's statline with biomorph enhancements don't count as modifyers; the statline is simply replaced.

 

Posted By jesterzdragon on 03/04/2007 8:51 AM
In the heat of the moment, we could not find the rule, but we just wanted to move on since we had 2 hours to play the game.  I just wanted to make sure.

What do you think about the modified strength score for a Tyrant vs Wych weapons?

Well Tyranids biomorphs don't modify the stat line they replace it. So it is not considered a modified strength, its the base strength. Page 32 of Tyrnaid codex, second paragraph.

Ah, I was just going by the word modified from the DE dex.  I do not have a new Nid dex, so that settles that.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Thanks Dakka! Now I won't tell my opponent the wrong thing in a tournament.

But since we are on the subject of wytches I have a question. Do wytch weapons help  witches hit?

From what I read last night it seems that the enemies weapon skill is only lowered when they attack the wytches not when they are attacked. Am I reading that correctly?
Thanks

The DE FAQ actually says that the unit locked with wyches and another unit only has its WS halved for attacks against they wyches and attacks from the wyches.  Which tells me that they always do that reguardless of another DE unit in cc with them. 

Basically it says that the unit attacking the DE are only halved against the wyches and in return when attacked by the wyches, not any other DE unit.  So if a squad of Marines attacks some DE Warriors with wyches involved in the combat, then the Marines are still normal WS if they attack the warriors.  But, if they choose to attack the Wyches they are effected half WS.   The wyches get the benefit both ways it seems despite the poor wording in the codex.  So in my example the wyches still hit on 3's even if the Marines attack the warriors.

Posted By jesterzdragon on 03/06/2007 6:47 AM
The DE FAQ actually says that the unit locked with wyches and another unit only has its WS halved for attacks against they wyches and attacks from the wyches.  Which tells me that they always do that reguardless of another DE unit in cc with them. 

Basically it says that the unit attacking the DE are only halved against the wyches and in return when attacked by the wyches, not any other DE unit.  So if a squad of Marines attacks some DE Warriors with wyches involved in the combat, then the Marines are still normal WS if they attack the warriors.  But, if they choose to attack the Wyches they are effected half WS.   The wyches get the benefit both ways it seems despite the poor wording in the codex.  So in my example the wyches still hit on 3's even if the Marines attack the warriors.

This is the way I understood it also.

Posted By jesterzdragon on 03/04/2007 6:53 AM
I think it says that you have to take multiple pinning test, but if you are pinned you do not take the 25% casualty from shooting which makes sense.  You are too busy staying low and hiding to run away.

Here's something related that I'd like cleared up too, actually:  A unit has to test due to taking 25% casualties, but also has a pining test to make.  Per the above, if they fail their pining test they ignore the break test and are pinned.  What happens if they pass the pining test?  Take the break test and then resolve the break test (i.e. stay or flee)?

Simple question I guess, but haven't been sure about it of late.

*threadjack over*

- Boss Salvage

I am under the impression that you only ever take one test versus 25% casualties per unit per turn if necessary.  So you can take multiple pinning, but you only ever take one for losing casualties.

So in that case if they pass all pinning test, and lost 25% or more from shooting then, they must take a morale test pass or fail.  Resolve accordingly.  If they failed a pinning test, they are pinning and no other test need taken.

Firing is declared for one unit first, resolved, casualties removed and then the next unit's firing is declared.

Pin tests are taken immediately after casualties are removed and before the next unit fires.

Morale checks for taking 25% casualties are taken at the end of the firing phase (after all units have declared and resolved shooting).

So provided you passed all the pin checks you might still be subject to a morale check.

 

Ah so the faq stealth upgraded the wyches. Good to know.

Posted By Boss_Salvage on 03/06/2007 8:44 AM

Here's something related that I'd like cleared up too, actually:  A unit has to test due to taking 25% casualties, but also has a pining test to make.  Per the above, if they fail their pining test they ignore the break test and are pinned.  What happens if they pass the pining test?  Take the break test and then resolve the break test (i.e. stay or flee)?

Simple question I guess, but haven't been sure about it of late.

*threadjack over*

- Boss Salvage

Pinning tests are taken when the unit suffers casualties from a pinning weapon.

Morale checks for shooting casualties are taken at the end of the shooting phase.

So what you describe should never be an issue because by the time you get to the end of the shooting phase units will have already resolved all of their potential pinning tests first.


Edit: yeah, what medic said.

" Pinning tests are taken when the unit suffers casualties from a pinning weapon."



Unfortunately the various weapons change and over time this is not true.  A Horrorfex or Terrorfex by the Dark Eldar does not cause casualties at all.  It just causes a pinning test.

Then they have a xenospasm that causes pinning and causes casualties.

Just wanted to throw that out so we have it all down.