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I want to do a guard army, a reasonably effective one, without buying 130 bajillion models. I already play tyranids and I used to play orks. I want to build a nice, shooty, high-tech human army, most likely without GW infantry, with an emphasis on shooting and portability. I would prefer not to do marines (I bought a plastic tac squad box and I already find them boring) and I would really rather not do a tau-proxy list (would be too weird for my opponents).

Are there any low-ish model count gaurd armies that work? I was thinking going vehicle heavy with lots of chimeras. I already own a chimera, a bassie, a russ and an old-version demolisher from a failed blood-axe project.

Edit: I seem to remember some interestingg ab-human rules and other doctrines that got released a while back. Subs, slave levies, afriel strain, etc. Are those legal? Be a great way to add some funky models to the army, like those mongose battlesuits or "rough riders" on velociraptors. Also, do inducted sisters suck? Because their rules would support some power-armored models I want to buy.

Sub humans aren't rogue trader legal (I don't think) anymore. They were at one point, but I think that 4th ed shoved them into "opponent's consent". About reasonable model cound guard: You can try mechanized, that'll net you about 60 infantry, but you'll be carting around 10+ tanks, which can take up a lot of space. You could also look into mechanized storm troopers (3 squads of grenediers in chimeras and 2 squads of inquisitorial storm troopers in chimeras) with heavy weapons in support squads or on sentinels. In reality though, if you go guard, you're going to have a lot of something.
cheers

Interesting...I find I can't stop adding more units. It only annoying because I want to play with all the different options, and swapping weapons on models isn't quite as easy as with Legos.

You're certainly thinking in the right direction...vehicles are the best way to get fewer models. You can get a decent mix with chimeras, hellhounds, and russes. You'll need to focus your few infantry on anti-tank, however, as most tanks don't really do anti-tank well unless you bust out the imperial armor/armored company rules.

My only worry is that I keep hearing about how weak vehicle-heavy guard is. Right now I'm thinking something like 5 chimeras (hq, stormies and grenadiers), 2 hellhounds, demolisher, bassie, russ. might be using oldcrow for the vehicles, I'm not sure yet. But yeah, In terms of space and portability, ten tanks beats 100 models hands down... not to mention the movement and set-up.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the gw vehicle models - chunky, which is good, but lacking in detail with fussy assembly... I guess I can stomach the chimeras modeled with predator turrets, but I'll have to do something about the russes... they have a goofy profile.

If you want an IG army with a low model count use the carapace armour and sharpshooters doctrine. A friend of mine did the same thing, I think in 1500 points he has a HQ with 2 sentinels, a special weapons support squad, anti-tank support and anti-infantry support, 2 minimal troop choices, hellhound, russ, demolisher and basi, he might have had some more but i dodnt remember and cant be bothered to figure out the points. Have no idea how good it is as he is pre-occupied with his empire army and so hasn't gotten around to play with his IG.

As for you russ delema you could do something like this:

Im doing something similar to this for my IG, but its gonna be slightly larger, cooler and have a really big gun

Posted By dumbuket on 03/05/2007 8:09 PM
My only worry is that I keep hearing about how weak vehicle-heavy guard is.

Where did you hear that?

I run a vehicle heavy guard army, and have had great success with it.  I don't take the mechanized doctrine, as I think that forces you to take too many chimeras.  You can easily include a healthy dose of vehicles with out the mech doctrine.  My 1750 has 2 chimeras, 2 hellhounds, 2 sentinels, russ, demolisher, and a basilisk.

Mechanized guard can do pretty well (and is what I'd run if I ever played guard) but I'd avoid so-so stuff like mounted storm troopers.

C99 and HBMC has some good advice posted on tactics and army lists concerning mechanized gaurd. Synopisis of it is: 1) Troops kill tanks and Tanks kill troops (ie don't mess with much else other then las/plas squads2) Take full compliment of heavy vehicles to draw fire.

With mechanized you should be able to make a 1750 list with well under 100 troops but still cram in quite a bit of shooting. You could even reduce that number more and still be viable with cameleoline (inevitable chimera wreck and extra bonus is pretty nice). Wouldn't be what I'd do (perfer some umbers and more shots) but its an option.

Mechanized lists are alright, but can be a bit limiting. I've never been too fond of Chimeras myself, though the models are nice. Its very easy to get a low model count though as was mentioned above by taking several doctrines. For example, one squad of the famed Tanith first costs 126 pts. Thats quite a lot for a guard squad, but with light infantry, sharpshooters, hardened fighters, cameleoloine and a flamer and missiles launcher thats what you get. This is a bit on the extreme side as only famous regiments can take more than 5 doctrines, but taking any is a good way of making your guard an elite unit.

I nearly always take light infantry as 100+ guardsmen are quite scary when most are already in range. Carapace armour is a good upgrade making your entire force tougher. Add to that die-hards, iron dicipline, sharpshooters and close order drill and you have an elite and fairly tough force that will rarely run. Squads of those are 95 pts base.

Drop troops is also a very flavourful doctrine, but can be diffficult in competative play. On a side note sisters make excellent allies. The addition of 3+ bolter wielders for 11 pts each is a steal, a much better choice than guard stormtroopers, unless your stormies are deepstriking tankhunters. Just a few thoughts, hope they're some help.

Use the Storm Trooper Doctrine too.

I run a guard force with 10 grenadiers in a chimera and 1 guard platoon (25 figs) as my troop choices. Of course this doesn't count the command squad (5 figs), two 5 man deep striking storm troopers, 10 Ratlings, and an anti tank squad (6 figs) attached to the command squad. I use sharpshooter doctrine any any squad that can get it and also use light infantry doctrine - it helps eat up some points.

I run a lot of vehicles though - 5 Sents - 2 Lemans - 1 Basilisk and 2 Chimeras.

I stand by the theory that the only way to consistently win with guard is to have less basic guardsmen.

I've got a fairly decent win record with them and the army is fun to play.

Grenadiers > Mechanised.

You take the metal and leave the meat. Chimera are all well and good, but you want points remaining for three Russ and three Hellhounds. Give the opponent what he fears - too many tanks to kill.

Do take a single platoon of walking guard with cameleoline. Hide them and shoot lascannon all day. Get a squad in a building and its horribly resilient. I saw an entire Tau army inflict only c5 guard casualties per turn on cameleoline guard in buildings.

My two guard armies are Steel Legion (Mechanized) and Vostroyan (Carapace Armor). The Steel Legion, at 1500 points, has about 50 infantry models and 9 vehicles, while the Vostroyans number about 70 infantry and 4 vehicles. Of the two armies, I would say that the Steel Legion is the more effective, at least when it comes to killing the enemy, but it can suffer in Alpha level missions (too few scoring units), and it can't do anything in assault.

The Vostroyans lack some of the firepower of a normal Guard army, due to the lower model count, but they are surprisingly resilient in close combat due to the 4+ save. I have also tooled up the officers with power weapons, etc., which isn't the best use of points but it can surprise your opponent when you guardsmen kill 10 marines a turn in close combat.

What makes you think that ether??   Sub Humans are chapter approved that came out AFTER 4th edition and the current IG Dex.  Thery are still perfectly legal.

 

 

Mech IG has a "relatively" low model count. Downside is that it is expensive to build.
My list is below and has 70 models in it.
It is a fun effective list. 1750 pts. I played this in my last RTT and was incredibly close to winning the whole thing.
Docs: Mech, Grenadiers, Storm troopers, close order drill, chem inhalers

HQ
Command Platoon
HSO w/ BP CCW : Chem
Vet w/ Standard
Hvy Bltr
Chimera w/ HHB

Troops
Armored Fist w/ LC : CoD, Chem
Chimera w/ HHB

Platoon 1
JO w/ BP PW : CoD, Chem
Meltagun
Chimera w/ HHB

Squad 1 w/ LC : CoD, Chem
Chimera w/ HHB

Squad 2 w/ LC : CoD, Chem
Chimera w/ HHB

Grenadiers w/ 2x PG
Chimera w/ HHB

Elites
Stormtroopers w/ 2x Meltagun, infiltrate

Heavy
Leman Russ w/ HHB

Leman Russ w/ HHB

Basilisk w/ Indirect Fire

Well, my current IG army that I just finished building has only 58 models (and none of them are tanks or vehicles) in 1,500 points.

I'm testing it out at a tournament tomorrow, where it will probably die horribly but it's more of a fun list than a competitive one.

Let me guess Grendaiers, Rough Riders, Ogryns and tooled up for CC HQ? Either that or =I= alliies.

Let me guess Grendaiers, Rough Riders, Ogryns and tooled up for CC HQ? Either that or =I= alliies.

Posted By Orlanth on 03/09/2007 11:25 AM
Let me guess Grendaiers, Rough Riders, Ogryns and tooled up for CC HQ? Either that or =I= alliies.

And you'd be wrong... both times.

And so wrong, too. No Grenadiers. No Rough Riders. No Ogryns. A small HQ that's not tooled up for close combat. And no Allies of any description.

Just 58 Imperial Guard infantry models. Care to guess again?

If not, I'll hopefully post a tournament report later today.

I like Mech, but find it to be a bit limiting. For example, Mech means everyone needs to be mounted so no Drop Troops and you lose Infil from the Vets.

I've found that buying Chimeras for your CHQ and PHQ + Armored Fist squads allow you to field almost as many Chimeras without losing flexibility. You can still drop or infil the vets and suicide PHQs are still viable.

Another option is to use the Armored Battle Group which allows you to cut out even more model count by taking Russes as Troops.

I don't think paying for expensive doctrines is a practical way to use less models. As has been pointed out by HBMC several times, you're simply throwing points at a weakness and coming away with a more expensive version that isn't much better.

I agree, Mechanized doctrine is rather ineffective -- I hate paying for a 12-model transport for every 5 man command squad, especially when the Chimera is only good up to double or triple redundancy -- any more than that and they start to hit the point where the opponent is saturated but you're not adding any different firepower to your mix.

Guard can certainly be in several ways with lower body count...the major approaches are:

1) Expensive doctrines on infantry.
2) Mechanized Doctrine.
3) Lots of tanks "standard" army.
4) Allies
5) Combinations of the above.

My personal favorite method is to use a basic infantry platoon, an AF squad, and a CHQ as a base for any Guard army -- one of the strengths of the Guard is fielding a LOT of models.

But I hate painting em over and over too.  I would suggest, for a really unusual list:

CHQ -- kitted for close combat, Chimera
Grenadiers -- x8, 2 special weapons, vet sarge, Chimera
Grenadiers -- x8, 2 special weapons, vet sarge, Chimera
Sisters Squad -- x10, 2 special weapons, Rhino
Sisters Squad -- x10, 2 special weapons, Rhino
Sisters Seraphim Squad -- x6 or x10.
x2 Sentinels
x2 Sentinels
Russ
Russ

Low models, high points, plays NOTHING like a standard Guard list.  All those vehicles give your opponent very difficult targeting choices to make, too.  If you want to go even high on the points-to-models ratio, field Grey Knights instead of sisters -- I've never used the Knights, but I imagine they'd be even more effective than Sisters.

-Adso