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 Albertorius wrote:

 lare2 wrote:
There's random Plague Marine bits on the Pox sprues.

Of course, why the feth not >_>

They used the big Poxwalker sprues from Dark Imperium, each of which happens to have part of a Plague Marine cut in a "modern GW" style, meaning it's not even a case of adding a bit or two to get an extra complete model out of the deal, from memory.

Eh I don't have a problem with that. I can understand the nature of it needing to be both part of a (really great value) starter and split off as it's own kit. Plus poxwalkers need plague marines are part of the force org anyways, so free conversion parts.

For AoS there's the lord-arcanum on gryph who also comes with a evocator-prime, as a result of combined sprues from being in the starter. While one evocator prime is useless, the actual evocator box can build a knight-incantor, leaving the unit one model short. So they naturally pair well together.

 DaveC wrote:
The new Nurgle box is a Vanguard box and will retail for €100 which is around £78 and $125. Looks like Vanguard is the AoS version of combat patrols.

So goodbye SC! for AoS too?

That's bs for different armies. Imagine pure daemon players, and makes you wonder what will happen to FEC and BCR...

Snap em up while you can.

Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.

Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.

 Overread wrote:
Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.

Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.

Maybe they'll get one whenever that new model drops. Several rumor engines look very FEC related, and I doubt it would be a second nighthaunt model on throne (who also have some rumor engines). (Or a vampire, given the surplus of vampire HQ models soulblight already have)

 Overread wrote:
Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.

Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.

It's going to get stupid. If they want a 750 pts army, they can't with the Nurgle one (~585 with current values), and it gets even worst considering that a SC! BCR already gives you exactly 750 pts.

What will they add to a FEC? how would they justify such a price increase with just new ghouls? Are they going to finally make plastic Varghulfs?

The guy who posted the Vanguard box for Nurgle said that there is no Battleforces, and I already saw the pic of the booklet for christmass on a Discord (spanish). Seems that you are better off picking of the Nurgle SC!, including the Daemons kit, right away, because the Vanguard box IS part of the bundles and the other two are nowhere to be seen.

 Overread wrote:
Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.

Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.

Just started FEC this week. Managed to find a Gorstane box and a discounted Warcry FEC. I ordered two of their Start Collecting FEC and should pick them up tomorrow.

 CMLR wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.

Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.

It's going to get stupid. If they want a 750 pts army, they can't with the Nurgle one (~585 with current values), and it gets even worst considering that a SC! BCR already gives you exactly 750 pts.

What will they add to a FEC? how would they justify such a price increase with just new ghouls? Are they going to finally make plastic Varghulfs?

The guy who posted the Vanguard box for Nurgle said that there is no Battleforces, and I already saw the pic of the booklet for christmass on a Discord (spanish). Seems that you are better off picking of the Nurgle SC!, including the Daemons kit, right away, because the Vanguard box IS part of the bundles and the other two are nowhere to be seen.

What do you mean, buy a SC Maggotkin + Plaguebearers for £82.50 instead of Vanguard Maggotkin for £85?

Start collecting box sets around £50 to £60 without discounts are a comfortable way to get some minis and feel for the army... taking them away and replace with £85 box and it starts to be a bigger commitment. Basically they want to grab you for one buy only at bigger mark up... Which is silly because I have seen plenty of people picking up 2x SC's many times spending more in the end.

Either way its their loss in my case because I prefer to get a couple SC boxes of different armies and eventually flesh them out than just get one army bigger box.

Like I said earlier I think the key is that GW is seeing Start Collecting boxes selling more to established customers right now. So they are riding that coat-tail and releasing more expensive discount boxes because they are pitching them to - well - us. To most current fans who are already within the GW ecosystem.

I figure that will sustain itself for a time then might get mixed with cheaper starter boxes later as GW might swing back to securing more customers.

If most reactions I've seen are any indication, then, the strategy is backfiring on them, because most established customers are seeing these and just not buying; at least over here, sales have taken a nosedive on that specific segment since the SC boxes started disappearing.

Yep and if that turns out the case then GW might well adjust; however chances are their plan has at least 6months or more lead time before they can react to changes like that. Boxes are already designed, made and on boats; kits are parted up and product listings and such designed and set in motion. Whilst having most of their company in-house means they can react quickly; they still have elements of the firm that are slower to react to changes.

Also we can't overlook that changes might not just be due to the product; there could be other factors resulting in changes.

Then there's the local vs national changes. It might be some localities with certain player groups slow down on buying; whilst other localities and player groups pick up on buying.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Start collecting box sets around £50 to £60 without discounts are a comfortable way to get some minis and feel for the army... taking them away and replace with £85 box and it starts to be a bigger commitment. Basically they want to grab you for one buy only at bigger mark up... Which is silly because I have seen plenty of people picking up 2x SC's many times spending more in the end.

Either way its their loss in my case because I prefer to get a couple SC boxes of different armies and eventually flesh them out than just get one army bigger box.

If you're quoting discount prices on the SC then you really should do the same for CP. Also there is no mark up between sets as shown repeatedly. I don't know why many seem to be having a hard time with this. The concern about higher price is not something that I'm losing sleep about but it's valid, however this thing about losing value is objectively false and not a difficult concept to grasp either.

I do agree now though that the SC + Plaguebearers is better for maggotkin though I forgot that SC comes with Blights instead of Herald. That switch is actually a big turnoff for me though obviously subjective.

JWBS wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Start collecting box sets around £50 to £60 without discounts are a comfortable way to get some minis and feel for the army... taking them away and replace with £85 box and it starts to be a bigger commitment. Basically they want to grab you for one buy only at bigger mark up... Which is silly because I have seen plenty of people picking up 2x SC's many times spending more in the end.

Either way its their loss in my case because I prefer to get a couple SC boxes of different armies and eventually flesh them out than just get one army bigger box.

If you're quoting discount prices on the SC then you really should do the same for CP. Also there is no mark up between sets as shown repeatedly. I don't know why many seem to be having a hard time with this. The concern about higher price is not something that I'm losing sleep about but it's valid, however this thing about losing value is objectively false and not a difficult concept to grasp either.

I do agree now though that the SC + Plaguebearers is better for maggotkin though I forgot that SC comes with Blights instead of Herald. That switch is actually a big turnoff for me though obviously subjective.

No discounts on the quoted...the AoS SC boxes on GW site got 3 prices, 50, 55 and 60 depending on the army.
Value is relative not discussing that either. From a standpoint of instead of getting 1 SC box to jumping to a bigger more expensive one, even if more minis are included, is not something I consider "dipping my toes"... £85 is full commitment to one army. That I find it to be less flexible and comfortable to my way go shopping around.

Also would like to point out that the bigger the box and with more models the less interesting it will be to buy multiples due to the fact you will end up with more duplicates than you wish. So even that is less flexible. Also if this is aimed at current client base then even bigger chance people already have portions of those boxes...Start collecting boxes was a sweet spot, a core a hero and something else to spice it up, I could buy a couple and only the hero would be duplicate.

In this day and age of quick pick up games and drop, a Dad going to pick something for is kid will not think twice on getting the £50 box named Start collecting. Going for a £85 box, well you look more carefully whats that all about, from what I experienced in the UK the £100 expenditure seems to be a psychological barrier for many and £85 is too close to that.

What I mean is this is not a start up or pick up something to dip your toes and see how it goes. Its a full commitment to one specific army and even vets have problems picking new armies can you imagine someone not up to date with GW shenanigans and Orruks or other funny names spending £85 on something they are not sure about?

I think this box is not marketed to either new people coming in or veterans who potentially already have or dont want a portion of the boxes.

I hope they do well if thats what people want, not for me though.

Sorry I thought you said with discounts, but you said w/o. Maybe the disagreement about value is a misunderstanding, the way you say it is a price "mark up" seems to be suggesting paying more for the same thing (or in this case the same amount of stuff), but the new boxes clearly have more stuff at the same percentage of discount (varies up and down but is equivalent).

Even if the discount is the same, you have to pay more in one go. And 1) many people won't, or won't be able, and 2) higher price means more scrutiny.

That without even addressing the fact that GW regular prices are... a thing.

JWBS wrote:
Sorry I thought you said with discounts, but you said w/o. Maybe the disagreement about value is a misunderstanding, the way you say it is a price "mark up" seems to be suggesting paying more for the same thing (or in this case the same amount of stuff), but the new boxes clearly have more stuff at the same percentage of discount (varies up and down but is equivalent).

Yes sorry about that. I was trying to say is that these 2 box sets have the same target in mind, which is to tempt you to start a X army.
The SC does that for £60 while the new ones will be £85.
If they choose to discontinue the smaller box in favour of the bigger ones then the target itself just got less comfortable and harder to reach.
You get more models and potentially nicer discounts? But this is where I think people will begin to question do I really need to spend £85 to just try out an army I'm not 100% sure about?

Edit: Oh just remembered that after my last visit to a GW store that if you want to pick something for your army just for the sake of it that regiment boxes roughly around £30 or hero blisters around £20 are the most common options. Beneath that line you have hobby tools/paints things or medals etc which are not the core (minis). Nothing new but if your cheapest minis are around those numbers then well you dont impulse buy that much anymore.
Not saying all minis should devaluate or bigger box sets should be free... Im saying you need something (miniature wise) to fill the impulse buy gap. Seems GW is moving away from that and increasing the gap by £25 on the new army boxes.

 NAVARRO wrote:
You get more models and potentially nicer discounts? But this is where I think people will begin to question do I really need to spend £85 to just try out a army I'm not 100% sure about?

Or a game, for that matter, yes.

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
You get more models and potentially nicer discounts? But this is where I think people will begin to question do I really need to spend £85 to just try out a army I'm not 100% sure about?

Or a game, for that matter, yes.

Well, this year marked me in therms of GW gaming or rules, rulebooks, dexes etc I gave them all up. I think now is more evident than ever that the price of both books and minis for my several armies would be a small fortune to just update. Got me thinking so I just dont...

I now have fun just buying the minis I really want. Maybe one day "games" will be price as beer and pretzels as they should, rather than £100 gourmet burgers. XD

 NAVARRO wrote:


Edit: Oh just remembered that after my last visit to a GW store that if you want to pick something for your army just for the sake of it that regiment boxes roughly around £30 or hero blisters around £20 are the most common options. Beneath that line you have hobby tools/paints things or medals etc which are not the core (minis). Nothing new but if your cheapest minis are around those numbers then well you dont impulse buy that much anymore.
Not saying all minis should devaluate or bigger box sets should be free... Im saying you need something (miniature wise) to fill the impulse buy gap. Seems GW is moving away from that and increasing the gap by £25 on the new army boxes.

That is a pretty bizarre thing to realise, £20 minimum spend for the smallest, least impressive thing possible. I remember when I was at university there was a GW nearby and I would sometimes go there and buy stuff just to kill my free time. Like, a box of 10 metal sister repentia for like £15 or something, I clearly remember that day and there would have been many more just like it. I definitely wouldn't just pop in now on my lunchtime and blow £20 on an impulse buy if it's one single miniature. I always have to wonder, if the reduced prices by 35% how many people would buy 100% more stuff. The economics are tricky, maybe many people would spend less and many would spend the same amount, but I gotta believe there is a scenario where profits increase by a fair margin by making stuff cheaper.

The problem is GW can't keep up with demand right now. They've had two years of vastly increased sales during a pandemic. They can't keep stuff in stock fast enough.

Sadly for us right now is the worst time to try and convince GW that they need to lower prices.


I do have to say that I find when it comes ot birthdays/christmas I'm putting less GW stuff on the list because it is going past that £20 sweet spot.




I think for GW what they need to have is excess capacity to produce and having hit a marketing threshold where they can't market to any wider an audience without making massive investments into new marketing avenues. When they have stock sitting on the shelf or machines not running and games not selling; and when the competition rae showing increased sales. That's when you can convince a firm that perhaps lowering their prices or offering bundle discounts etc... - might be the right path.


But yeah I do miss the days when a character was say in the £8-£12 bracket.


Of course some of the price rises are sneaky; eg Zoanthropes went up; but then they became a duel kit; and 3 in a box instead of 1 .

They should have a minis line repackaged just for impulse buy, less minis etc. The snap fit once it landed was supposed to be that gap filler but we see that those are either assimilated with the more expensive kits or discontinued like the Dreadgnout and such.

You can get cheaper kits for other less popular games like BB though. But if your collecting the main 2 systems then it becomes harder to get cheap pick up stuff.

Like a blister with one or two squigs for £5, things like that to keep people's itch happy.

For example the Hachette mags do that just fine I don't see why GW could not do that themselves as one of their product lines.

Eh the problem is those kind of purchases become pointless. 2 squigs can't be fielded so now you've got to buy several packs - you might as well either just save and get one regular box or multiple boxes at once to actually "use" them in the game.


If one is push fit, limited on options or such then that's going to be less popular.



Hachette is a good example of lower prices working, however at the same time its important to note that its different to a main release. It's essentially just a very drawn out christmas bundle release of two armies. Not the entire product line; not everything and each release is a fixed number of issues (expanded but still always a fixed number; its not produced until demand is gone).

So in general its not the same as making all your prices lower forever; its a short term lower price to generate fast sales which then should translate into more sales of higher value items for more profit later

- Nurgle Vanguard gets a price increase and nets you 585 pts (currently, I doubt they are intending you to use both Pusgoyle as LoA).

- SC! BCR nets you exactly 750 points.

AoS armies are all over the place and this is ridiculous.

That's potentially like saying SC GSC is 250pts and the CP BA is 500pts. Comparison makes no sense, the factions are different. It's highly (and very obviously) selective.

How many points is SC Maggotkin?

Start collecting and battlebox and christmas bundle boxes have never really ever aimed for equal points values. The only ones that even attempt it at the duel battle boxes and even they often come up short on one side, which is sometmies balanced out by the custom campaign in the box.

GW aren't selling on points; points have no real impact on sales metrics outside of anticipated sales volume. Even then there are oddities.
eg the necron Flayed ones are the same unit role and same point cost as warriors and yet cost way more.

Of course this might be because they were originally designed as an elite unit and then got changed, but their price and market position were already fixed so you end up with an elite style unit price on a core infantry style model in the game.

 Albertorius wrote:
Even if the discount is the same, you have to pay more in one go. And 1) many people won't, or won't be able, and 2) higher price means more scrutiny.

That without even addressing the fact that GW regular prices are... a thing.

Well. One way or another prices would go up. Either more expensive box with more models or just same box with higher price.

Yif you expect same box be there for same price forever must not have been long in gw games.

GW has proven sales results that show the people who buy into their games are damn near price-insensitive. Sure, little timmies might no longer find it as easy to get into it, but the older whale/collector market pretty much snaps anything up. just look at the action figure market, children are basically an afterthought now.
(which is tied to other issues, like the current 30-40 millenial generation being unable to buy "status" goods like houses and cars their parents and grandparents could, substituting it with much cheaper nostalgia-driven purchases)

tneva82 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Even if the discount is the same, you have to pay more in one go. And 1) many people won't, or won't be able, and 2) higher price means more scrutiny.

That without even addressing the fact that GW regular prices are... a thing.

Well. One way or another prices would go up. Either more expensive box with more models or just same box with higher price.

Yif you expect same box be there for same price forever must not have been long in gw games.

Not long at all, no. About 30 years, give or take, five of them working inside the company.

But the point you're addressing is not the point I made, so ok?

What I did say is that people will find harder to buy these more expensive boxes because they reach a higher threshold that is much more difficult to justify (or, for some people, to actually afford), even if they keep the general price and discounts. Not that prices shouldn't or wouldn't raise, because yes, this is GW we're talking about.

As a parting note, I also did point out that GW prices are... well, GW prices.

I feel that eventually, as it already happened before, enough people will vote with their money, and the seemingly unstoppable trends of GW will somehow revert again, but as Overread said, currently GW can't produce enough stuff to sell, so it will be some time yet for that.