Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, having wrapped up a small Guard army, I'm tired of painting the same infantryman umpteen times. And, though everyone plays Marines, they have fantastic possibility for creative-yet-competitive composition (not to mention painting and background.)  So here are four semi-DIY Marine chapter army concepts -- I'm developing small lists for each of them, but I'd like your opinions on the list concepts and Traits I've chosen, too.

Please take a look at the longer Background post in the fluff section if you have a chance...it helps to understand the concepts -- not to mention hopefully being good, entertaining writing.

Here are the list concepts.

Celestial Lions:

Advantages: Blessed Be The Warriors, Trust Your Battle Brothers
Disadvantages: Aspire To Glory, Have Pride In Your Colors

Army Concept: Inquisitorial Storm Troopers to represent their faithful retainers, scouts, and only a very few Tactical Marines. At least one Veteran Assault Squad, several land speeders to provide speed and promote their ‘swift and courageous’ image. All Marines would have Trust Your Battle Brothers, since the idea is that most full Marines still fighting survived the horrors of Armageddon.

Knights Peregrine:

Advantages: Be Swift As The Wind
Disadvantages: Have Faith in Suspicion

Army Concept: Chaplain leads a Bike Squad, two Bike and two Scout squads as troops, with Landspeeders and Las/HB predators supporting. If the points are there, tac squads will be small las/plas ones.

Sons of Polaris:

Army Concept: Small tactical squads with either close combat weapons and flamers or bolters and two plasma guns. Lots of drop pods. Support from Terminators, small Dev squads.

Advantages: Take The Fight To Them, Cleanse and Purify
Disadvantages: Faithful Unto Death, Eye To Eye


Jade Dragons

Advantages: See But Don’t Be Seen, Trust Your Battle Brothers
Disadvantages: We Stand Alone

Army Concept: Tactical Squads are expensive with both TYBB and SBDBS, at 21 pts per marine. However, by accompanying each squad with a vet sarge and arming it with a heavy bolter and melta or plasma gun, they become infiltraiting, countercharging, close combat weapon and bolter armed bundles of death. Lead the army with one or two Librarians and one squad of Termies. Few or no vehicles, except maybe some speeders.

-Adso

Whats wrong with 'cleanse and purify' and 'heed the wisdom of the ancients'?

Personally, I think its more fun to find combinations that are playable, but make little sense.  Like 'be swift as the wind' and 'heed the wisdom of the ancients'.  (bikes supported by dreads) Or 'no mercy, no respite' and 'suffer not the work of heretics'. (fear my furious charging tank hunters!)  How about 'purity above all' and 'scion of mars'? (apothecaries led by techmarines)

The look on your opponents face would make it worth it.

Erm....nothing is wrong with those traits, or even with unusual combinations, per se. But these are meant to go along with specific concepts and fluff.

But I was hoping for some feedback, not silliness unconnected to my question.

-Adso

I used those traits because its the most common combination in pod builds. :S

I just think it would be hilarious trying to come up with fluff for large bike squads supported by mass dreads. 

Your builds are all ok, but its unlikely that any of them are anything more than casual. 

The Celestial Lions sound a leetle like my (oft neglected) Tiger Legion. (Honour Your Wargear, Die Standing) (only coincidentally are they wearing nearly the same livery as the Fighting Tigers of Veda) Emphasizing 4+ save dudes - about 50% of my infantry wears carapace, all the troops are ISTs or Scouts - does give them some large weaknesses. (makes decisions about those token anti-horde AP4 weapons a bit easier for the opponent) I dunno about Have Pride in your Colours - the only non-MEQs in the Marine Codex of significant fighting value are scouts, with infiltrate they're 5 points cheaper than comparable tac marines, but without they are only two points cheaper.

The Jade Dragons sound pretty much like Crimson Ravens. (if I recall it right - the wannabe Relictors from Dawn of War)

The Sons of Polaris I think IntoTheRain HAS actually given some pretty good feedback. Pods is Pods, pardonning the use of the single tense. Dreads, Termies, Speeders are the traditional support for that sort of list.

One concept list to throw out for a biker heavy army is based on White Scars. (no seriously...) Prior to considering an internet pod list with 1/72 chinooks or 1/48 Hueys standing in for pods and little American flags on all the Tac marines' shoulders (USMC in power armour, pretty much) I was toying with running an Elite =I= with Emperor's Tarot modelled with a detachable base shaped like a crashed bike; 2x5 Scout Bikes, each with a Homer, melta bombs, and combi-flamer; and 4x5 Terminators, including eight assault cannons and two Codiciers with Fury of the Ancients. (an Inquisitorial FOO has suffered a breakdown, elements from the first and tenth respond to "safeguard" his information - pretty much the only thing deployed on the board is the pugilistic Inquisitor - as pushback - with the Scouts moving on where they like after NME deployment turn one and Termies 'porting in to support their more junior brethren turns two and three.) Probably not as effective as Lysanderwing, but would probably be darn fun to play with. With more specific reference to the Knights Peregrine, Have Faith in Suspicion may not be the way to go as bike-mounted Librarians make pretty cool mobile artillery. (nothing like shooting FotA down the line of a bunch of LatD or Fire Warriors)

I had something else to say, but I think it slipped out into my coffee somewhere in the last paragraph. Interesting concepts, The Sons of Polaris are probably the most competitive one due to their use of pods.

I liked the fluff of the Celestial Lions best, it sounded quite a cool space age take on the Brettonian knights (few in number but elite and very fast) and the squires and men at arms who support and retain them, and when required follow them onto the field of battle. This concept gets the thumbs up from me.

I've wanted to do a heavy theme Marine army for a while, I will probably start one later in the year, though I am looking at a Salamanders army (lots of flamers and meltaguns but NO PODS!)

Since the most interest seems to be in the Celestial Lions, here's a rough 1750 for them.

This is a very sketchy idea...I'm willing to switch almost anything around here for the sake of a fluffy and yet playable army against all but the most tournament-focused enemies.

HQ (160)

Chapter Master Velasquez with power fist, power weapon, combat shield, terminator honors, jump pack (160)

ELITES (492)

6x Assault Marines with Furious Assault. 1x Veteran Sergeant with Lightning Claws, Bolt Pistol. 2x Plasma Pistols. (230)

7x Assault Marines with Furious Assault. 1x Veteran Sergeant with Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs. 2x Flamers. (262)

TROOPS (722)

x6 Tactical Marines. 1x Lascannon, 1x Plasma Gun. All Marines with True Grit. (151)

x6 Tactical Marines with. 1x Lascannon, 1x Plasma Gun. All Marines with True Grit. (151)

x10 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers Two armed with Plasma Guns. (120)
Transport: Chimera with hull HB, Extra Armor (90)

x10 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. Two armed with Plasma Guns. (120)
Transport: Chimera with hull HB, Extra Armor (90)

FAST ATTACK (383)

Landspeeder Tornado with Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon (80)

Landspeeder Tornado with Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon (80)

3x Bikers, 2x Flamers. 1x Biker Vet. Sgt with powerweapon, bolt pistol, melta bombs. 1x Attack Bike with Multi-Melta. (223)

Ideas for change include switching the tacs for scouts, adding Vet Guardsmen to the Stormtrooper squads, and switching the Bikers for something else. The Assault Squads (or at least one) are important for the fluff.

To quickly fill in army-forum people who don't want to read the whole fluff post in the fluff for nutters area: the Celestial Lions were nearly wiped out by Inquisitorial betrayal at Armageddon, because a few years previously they had harshly criticized the Inquisitorial decision to virus-bomb a planet the Lions had liberated from rebels. I decided that such an honorable bunch would be very well liked by the humans on their Fortress World, and that the surviving remnants of the Chapter were making heavy use of inducted Planetary Guard to supplement their surviving veterans.

-Adso

Hmm...maybe yank most of the gear off the master, one jump marine, extra armour from the chimeras, the melta bombs from the bikes, trade lightning claws for a PF, ditch true grit, give the jump sergeant's melta bombs to the master, and buy the tac squads each a razorback? This would add redundancy to your line with another two lightly armoured targets. Maybe flip TYBB to BSATW and run Elite scout bikes with a third lone Tornado. I think that'd let them get away with just Aspire to Glory - though thinking it over maybe flip the bikers for a TLLC/bolter Predator and TLLCs on the Razorbacks (or something that leaves you an empty fast and an empty elite slot) and having them as BBTW/Faithful Unto Death would be truer to their fluff write-up. (decimation by campaign = FUD)

Hmmm. A lot of disagreement here about the best way to do the Lions, so perhaps another route is best. Here's the list for the Jade Dragons. Each squad is intended to be a bunch of utter arse-kickers, able to all infiltrate together on a flank and kick in the door in a concentrated fashion. Any one of those squads can take or dish out a solid charge due to True Grit and the presence of kitted-out Vet Sarges, firefight with their PG/Melta, or even take out heavy targets using Multi-Meltas or the list's sole lascannon.

The Librarian + Squad HQ is like an ultra-max version of the flexible tactical squads -- he can slice, dice, or shoot. The other Librarian is a character-and-squad devastating machine. If I even catch a hint of a Farseer, Chaos Lt, or other HQ choice the enemy needs, he's on it. With the number of attacks he has with his assault marines, he also has the ability to take apart large squads of 'Crons, Sisters, Orks, etc.

The multi-meltas are an odd choice, I know, but my thought is that since the squads should be able to begin close in, the multi-meltas can provide most of the kick of lascannons (or more) for five points less, with the added advantage of being AP1.

The all-librarian HQ and ultra-elite Marines reflect the Chapter fluff, see the fluff boards for detail.

Jade Dragons

HQ (399)
Epistolary with Force Weapon, Power Fist, Infiltrate, Storm Of The Emperor?s Wrath (147)
Command Squad: 2x Marines with Infiltrate, True Grit, Counter-Charge. 2x Marines with Meltaguns, Infiltrate, True Grit, Counter-Charge. 1x Veteran Sergeant with Lightning Claw, Bolter. (155)

Epistolary with Force Weapon, Storm Shield, Terminator Honors, Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Familiar, Veil Of Time (195)

ELITES
None

TROOPS (920)

Tactical Squad: 3x Marines with Infiltrate, True Grit, Counter-Charge. 1x Marine with Plasma Gun. 1x Marine with Multi-Melta. Veteran Sergeant with powerfist, bolter, true grit, countercharge. (176)

Tactical Squad: 3x Marines with Infiltrate, True Grit, Counter-Charge. 1x Marine with Flamer. 1x Marine with Heavy Bolter. 1x Veteran Sergeant with lightning claws, meltabombs. (187)

Tactical Squad: 3x Marines with Infiltrate, True Grit, Counter-Charge. 1x Marine with Flamer. 1x Marine with Multi-Melta. 1x Veteran Sergeant with power weapon, power fist. (182)

Tactical Squad: 3x Marines with Infiltrate. 1x Marine with Plasma Gun. 1x Marine with Lascannon. 1x Veteran Sergeant with combi bolter-plasmagun. (152)

Scout Squad: 6x Scouts. 5 w/Sniper Rifles. 1 w/Heavy Bolter. (102)

Scout Squad: 6x Scouts. Bolt Pistols / CCW, 1 w/Heavy Bolter, Vet Sgt with power weapon, powerfist. (121)

FAST ATTACK (187)

Assault Squad: 6x Assault Marines in Jumppacks. 2x Plasma Pistols. Veteran Sergeant with powerfist, powersword, combat shield. (187)

Fist squads oughta have about eight guys in them, IMHO. Power sword AND power fist is a wee bit overkill - combat shields aren't really neccessary on guys that won't be targetted in melee. You also don't need a storm shield if you've got an Iron Halo. Scratch those last two points if this is post-buy, you like the poses and you want to be WYSIWIG - i.e. if shields just scream "SPARTAAA!" to you, I'm all for them.

(BTW my comments on the Lions were just directed to giving a bit of list help that jived with your fluff as best I understood it, not to say "the whole concept sucks start over." I'm no MEQ guru, I'm not a tourney regular, and I generally don't have much to say that anyone else with a bit of experience with marines wouldn't.)

Posted By IntoTheRain on 03/10/2007 7:50 AM

Whats wrong with 'cleanse and purify' and 'heed the wisdom of the ancients'?

Personally, I think its more fun to find combinations that are playable, but make little sense.  Like 'be swift as the wind' and 'heed the wisdom of the ancients'.  (bikes supported by dreads) Or 'no mercy, no respite' and 'suffer not the work of heretics'. (fear my furious charging tank hunters!)  How about 'purity above all' and 'scion of mars'? (apothecaries led by techmarines)

The look on your opponents face would make it worth it.

HAHAHA YES! I love that last one, Apothecaries leading every squad with Techmarines leading the army! Support staff FTW!

Here's the final list, the one for the drop podders, Sons of Polaris. This list is meant to represent a force used for rapid assault, scouting, or surprise reinforcement of the Guard crusade regiment it has been attatched to.

Sons of Polaris
(Take the Fight to Them, Cleanse & Purify, Aspire to Glory, Faithful Unto Death)

HQ (140)

Chaplain with Crozius, Powerfist, Terminator Honors, Rosarius. (140)

ELITES (290)

x5 Terminators, Tank Hunters. 2 Assault Cannon, 1 Chainfist.
Drop Pod (30)

TROOPS (997)

x8 Tactical Marines: Pistols and CCW, Frag Grenades, 2 Flamers, Vet Sgt with power weapon, bolt pistol (169)
Drop Pod (30)

x8 Tactical Marines: Pistols and CCW, Frag Grenades, 1 Flamer, 1 Meltagun, Vet Sgt with power weapon, power fist. (188)
Drop Pod (30)

x8 Tactical Marines: Bolters, 1 Plasmagun, 1 Lascannon. (145)
Drop Pod (30)

x8 Tactical Marines: Bolters, 1 Plasmagun, 1 Lascannon. (145)
Drop Pod (30)

x6 Scouts, 5 Snipers, Missile Launcher (112)

x8 Scouts, 7 BP/CCW, Missile Launcher (114)

FAST ATTACK (326)

x8 Assault Marines: 2 Plasma Pistols, Veteran Sergeant with power weapon, powerfist. (226)

Landspeeder Tornado (80)

The Chaplain accompanies one of the dropping Marine squads to give it some extra punch. The twist on standard drop marines here is the mix of BP/CCW squads and bolter squads, hopefully allowing me a more flexible deployment when my pods come in, pairing them off against appropriate targets etc. My worry is anti-tank -- will the two lascannons, the scout missiles, the termies, and the powerfists cut it?

-Adso

I have an odd one that might be pretty fun. . .

Servants of the Throne
Purity above all, Trust in the Emperor (the invulnerable save one)
We stand alone, Not sure on the major one, (don't have my book on me)

This chapter was lost in a warp storm, shortly after the horus heresy and has striven to contain any warping of the holy geneseed gifted to them by the Emperor.

Epistolary with FOTA, FOTD
8 Tactical Marines with 1 Melta Gun
1 Veteran Sergenat/Apothecary with power fist, bolt pistol
Drop Pod

Epistolary with FOTA, FOTD
8 Tactical Marines with 1 Melta Gun
1 Veteran Sergenat/Apothecary with power fist, bolt pistol
Drop Pod

9 Tactical Marines with 1 Plasma Gun
1 Veteran Sergenat/Apothecary with power fist, bolt pistol
Drop Pod

9 Tactical Marines with 1 Plasma Gun
1 Veteran Sergenat/Apothecary with power fist, bolt pistol
Drop Pod

1 Dreadaught with Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

1 Dreadaught with Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

1 Dreadnaught with Twin Las-cannon, Missile Launcher, Venerable, Tank Hunter

If it's not inappropriate to reply to a second page topic, I notice you tend to make the same sorts of errors throughout your lists - too much wargear, redundant items on sergeants, and the occasional dose of tactical schizophrenia - i.e. how useful is a lascannon going to be for a drop pod used in typical drop pod style? What will an IC do with his PF when he has suffered Instant Death from the first few attacks of the Carnifex on which he was planning to use it?

I think any of your list ideas with a bit more attention to points-effectiveness and probable tactical unit usage would make for a fun and sufficiently strong list at least for most casual games.

Happy painting, whatever your choice.

GL HF