1500 Chaos - Night Lords - tournament play

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**Treadhead**

Ok, its been many years since I last played Chaos (early 3rd Ed codex, to be precise...) but I felt the need to become an insane psychopath and beat up the pathetic loyalists (of whom, I have had 3 armies over the years, *ahem*...).

As such, I am not quite sure how to make a really effective Chaos list (not that I don't have some ideas), and I am looking for some help in refining this Night Lords list of mine to make it competitive.

So, to business, 1,500 points of Night Lords for tournament play:

HQ

Chaos Lord - 1 Chaos Lord: Pair of Lightning Claws, Bionics, Frag Grenades, Personal Icon, Spiky Bits, Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Visage, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
176

Elites

Obliterator Cult - 2 Obliterators.
140

Troops

Chaos Space Marines 1 - 5 Chaos Marines: 4 Bolters, 1 Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate & Stealth Adept.
95

Chaos Space Marines 2 - 5 Chaos Marines: 4 Bolters, 1 Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate & Stealth Adept.
95

Chaos Space Marines 3 - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Chaos Marines: 6 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Infiltrate & Move Trough Cover.
182

Chaos Space Marines 4 - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Chaos Marines: 6 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Infiltrate & Move Trough Cover.
182

Fast Attack

Chaos Raptors - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Raptors: 5 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 2 Meltaguns, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
312

Daemonic Beasts - 10 Furies: Claws & Teeth.
150

Heavy Support

Chaos Havoks - 6 Chaos Marines: 3 Bolters, 3 Autocannons, Tank Hunters & Stealth Adept.
168

53 Models, 1500 points exact.

The plan is that Squads 1 and 2 take up positions to give covering fire. The Havoks sit in the DZ and shoot at tanks, namely annoying skimmers. Squads 3 & 4 infiltrate out of LOS for some assault goodness in a turn or two (using Move Through Cover to launch some surprise assaults). The Raptors go with these guys, to catch the enemy and lock them in combat to stop them running. The Lord goes with the Raptors, but detaches before the assault so that they can hit & run if necessary (h&r + summoning = nasty). The Obliterators deepstrike in near enemy vehicles to take them out, and to force the enemy to split fire between my assault contingent, and this pair of nasties.

Now, I have a few changes I am debating:

Do I give the Lord a Teleport Homer, instead of Bionics, just in case (although most of the time the Oblits will land across the board from him)?
Do I give the 8-man Chaos squads MoCU instead of Move through Cover, so that they won't run away, or be pinned?

Also, hordes worry me at the moment. Should I swap the Meltas in the CSM squads for Flamers?

Thanks if you took the time to read this, does anyone have any suggestions to make?

Thanks in advance,

Treadhead

**Kaotica**

Hey TreadHead,

I'm not a Chaos player but I have been playing for a long time now and I do use a few infiltrating units in my army Pathfinders and Striking Scorpions, the Scorpions at lest work in much the same way as your 8 man squads.

You get to place you units last most of the time even against an army with infiltrators of there own. This means you can choose most of your fights or at least who will get to them first. If you feel the need to do so you can specialize your squads more. something like give one of the 8 man squads a flamer and give there Aspiring Champion lighting claws so as to better equipped him against hordes.

I still think though that ultra mobile armies will be your biggest threat much more so than hordes and ultra mobile armies have transport vehicles and in this case Metas are the way to go. I know I wish I had a fusion gun In my Scorpions squad. even with a power fist (though with my guys its only str 6) and plasma grenades a few killa kans, Wraithlords or dreadnoughts can really ruin your day. I think you should will be ok against most horde army's CCW marines are pretty deadly to hormagants, guardsmen even orks.

no need for a teleport homer you don't want your guys out there all alone early in the game most of the time.

All in all I think the list looks pretty good It would be interesting to see how your opponent will deploy, only knowing were you are placing your havocs. again I have never faced an army quite like this nor have I used one so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Peace.

**Treadhead**

Thank you, I know it's not the IW "cheese" (IMO, if it's in the codex, its legal) Chaos forces you see, but do you think it will do well enough?

With regards to Infiltration, what should be placed first: The 5-man squads to force enemy infil back into their own half, or my own Combat units in order to pick the juiciest fights (raptors first, or the Marine units, to prevent counter-infil units with Plasma eating me)?

Is it going to be much of a problem having only 36.93% of my points in Troops, when most tournaments recommend 40% for composition scores? I mean, I have not min-maxed like many other branches of Chaos out there, but still...

**Antonin**

Go Night Lords! They are by far the most characterful Chaos Army (but I may be biased...)

In my experience, this is what I have found:

1. Take the MoCU on everything. It is better than having infiltration. There is nothing worse than watching your troops run away like sissies.
2. Take multiple units of demons. That way have a better chance of getting at least some, rather than the lower chance of getting the bigger one. Also, smaller squads do not die as easily to a bad scatter.
3. Autocannons suck. Use missile launchers instead. (AC w/ tank hunter = 8 str. no chance of a pen against Leman Russ, Land Raider, etc. No chance of a glance against monolith)
4. Stealth Adept is awesome. Take it all the time!
5. ALWAYS have an even number of models in a squad. The math works out better always, for break checks, and for being above 50%.
6. D. Visage - what, you want your enemies to flee from combat? That leaves you.. where exactly? In front of your enemy's gunline? No, no thanks - I'ld rather hide in close combat instead (drop the D. Visage)

other than that, looks great!

**Treadhead**

1. I don't see how the 2 can be compared, one is about Ld, the other is a deployment method, it's like comparing parsnips to bolter shells. Also, how would MoCU help me get into combat, when the amount of casualties I would recieve advancing up the board will counter the benefits of the Ld re-roll. Perhaps I could swap Move Through Cover to get both, but is it worth sacrificing sneaky assaults through cover for the Ld re-roll? Sticking it out in assault could help, but if I have assaulted a target that won't break in (hopefully) 2 rounds of CC, then I probably shouldn't have assaulted it...

2. How can 2 units of 5 furies be better than 1 unit of 10, when the 5 will take a couple of casualties, suffer morale modifiers, then lose a few more daemons to instability? With the 10, I get a chance that they should kill enough in combat to prevent them from losing, thus not having to take instability checks.

3. Str 8 CAN hurt AV 14, but it's glancing only. I thought that multiple shots would counter the slightly reduced strength. Why can't a glance hurt a monolith - are they immune to glances (I don't know the Necron rules terribly well)? If not, I might have to look into Missiles, but in playing IW in practice games, I thought AC did fairly well?

4. Should it be taken on CC squads, where they will not be in cover? In these cases, it seems like a waste (hence my CC squads don't have it, but the shooty squads do...)

5. It was tricky to find the points needed for the extra blokes in the 5-man squads (the Veteran skills pushewd the points up to 18 per man!). And, since they are used as distractions, and infiltrator push-back, I thought it unwise to sink too many more points than necessary into them. My "key" units are all even numbers, 8 for the CC squads, 10 for the Daemons and 6 for the Havoks.

6. The Raptors have it anyway, and I gave it to the Lord since he is meant to be a boosted Raptor champion, and it fits NL fluff quite well. If playtesting proves that it is more of a detriment than an aid, then it certainly will go - I don't want my Commander/Raptors free in the face of the enemy's guns!

Hope I haven't sounded to harsh in this, re-reading has made me think that I might have, I just can't see some reasons for your suggestions - could you explain them a bit more fully please?

**Antonin**

Fair enough.

1. You can't take MoCU, infiltrate, and stealth adept(SA). Any squad that is standing still and shooting should have SA, and the MoCU is essential on all units - therefore no space for infiltrate on those squads. Obviously your raptors and lord would have infiltrate and MoCU. If you want troops to move forward and assault, you would need MoCU, and then have a choice between infiltrate or move through cover - in that case, I'ld go with infiltrate.

You only get infiltrate on very few missions, but you pay points for it always. That's a bad deal, in my book. SA is useful in every mission.

2. well, preferably I would take 2 squads of 8, (or better yet 4 squads of 10!) but it sounds like you were limited, both in points and in numbers. however, if all you have is 10, then 2 squads of 5 - I prefer to be able to get at least one squad to tie up the enemy until my other squads can arrive, rather than allow the enemy to keep shooting me. I guess you could take chosen and give them a Demon banner - that way you know all ten will come on.

3. Tank hunter does not work with monoliths - so your AC are str 7 against them. For the others, a pen is so much more destructive than a glance, that being able to glance on a 5 or pen on a 6 is much more than twice as good as being able to glance on a 6.

4. If you put your CC squads out in the open, and leave them there for a turn, you shouldn't have anything left if your opponent knows what he's doing (bad luck aside).

5. I feel your pain on this one - I have point problems all the time. Good luck.

6. Good luck, if it works well, then good combo!

**Samwise158**

I play Black Legion, but in a similar style to the army you've put together. Here are my points.

1. The 8 man PF/Melta Chaos Squads are expensive and will be easy for a lot of armies to take out or evade. I've used a similar setup and it functions pretty well as a character delivery system, but a smart opponent or a bad board setup can force your infiltrators back enough that they will still have to hike across the board.

2. You've got room to add a few flamers to your squads. Raptors can take 3 special weapons and you could stick a flamer in each of the infiltating SA squads.

3. M.O.C.U. makes it so you can only have one veteran skill. I'd go with infiltrate, but SA is cheaper.

4. I'd put a lascannon in each 5 man squad. These two lascannons should be able to deal with the odd 14 AV vehicle you run up against. Melta Raptors are also great tank hunters. I'd say keep the 3 Autocannon/Tank Hunters squad. They might not be able to deal with AV 14 vehicles but they can shred AV 12 and under and can waste infantry. I use an 8 man squad with 4 Autocannons and it almost always makes its points back and denies territory.

Otherwise, I think the list looks pretty good. I'd phase out the two 8 man ccw squads for another unit of Raptors. Maybe even give them infiltrate...

**Jancoran**

Posted By Treadhead on 03/12/2007 4:58 AM
Ok, its been many years since I last played Chaos (early 3rd Ed codex, to be precise...) but I felt the need to become an insane psychopath and beat up the pathetic loyalists (of whom, I have had 3 armies over the years, *ahem*...).

As such, I am not quite sure how to make a really effective Chaos list (not that I don't have some ideas), and I am looking for some help in refining this Night Lords list of mine to make it competitive.

So, to business, 1,500 points of Night Lords for tournament play:

HQ

Chaos Lord - 1 Chaos Lord: Pair of Lightning Claws, Bionics, Frag Grenades, Personal Icon, Spiky Bits, Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Visage, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
176

Elites

Obliterator Cult - 2 Obliterators.
140

Troops

Chaos Space Marines 1 - 5 Chaos Marines: 4 Bolters, 1 Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate & Stealth Adept.
95

Chaos Space Marines 2 - 5 Chaos Marines: 4 Bolters, 1 Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate & Stealth Adept.
95

Chaos Space Marines 3 - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Chaos Marines: 6 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Infiltrate & Move Trough Cover.
182

Chaos Space Marines 4 - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Chaos Marines: 6 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Infiltrate & Move Trough Cover.
182

Fast Attack

Chaos Raptors - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Raptors: 5 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 2 Meltaguns, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
312

Daemonic Beasts - 10 Furies: Claws & Teeth.
150

Heavy Support

Chaos Havoks - 6 Chaos Marines: 3 Bolters, 3 Autocannons, Tank Hunters & Stealth Adept.
168

53 Models, 1500 points exact.

The plan is that Squads 1 and 2 take up positions to give covering fire. The Havoks sit in the DZ and shoot at tanks, namely annoying skimmers. Squads 3 & 4 infiltrate out of LOS for some assault goodness in a turn or two (using Move Through Cover to launch some surprise assaults). The Raptors go with these guys, to catch the enemy and lock them in combat to stop them running. The Lord goes with the Raptors, but detaches before the assault so that they can hit & run if necessary (h&r + summoning = nasty). The Obliterators deepstrike in near enemy vehicles to take them out, and to force the enemy to split fire between my assault contingent, and this pair of nasties.

Now, I have a few changes I am debating:

Do I give the Lord a Teleport Homer, instead of Bionics, just in case (although most of the time the Oblits will land across the board from him)?
Do I give the 8-man Chaos squads MoCU instead of Move through Cover, so that they won't run away, or be pinned?

Also, hordes worry me at the moment. Should I swap the Meltas in the CSM squads for Flamers?

Thanks if you took the time to read this, does anyone have any suggestions to make?

Thanks in advance,

Treadhead

Well since it is labelled as a tournament army:

1. The defininf thing about Night Lords is, they are the only ones with Raptors not at 0-1. So fluff wise, no matter how small you make them, you should have two units of them. so that all may know that terror has a new name...and don't forget their heinous daemonic visage ability.

2. Obliterators in cover are simply too valuable to waste in melee or being off the board any sooner than necessary. The odds are, one of them will survive to see tomorrow. Therefore I say no on the teleport homer issue.

3. ON the issue of MoCU, it has never failed to be worth it on troops who WILL be assaulting GOD KNOWS WHAT! However I would like to make a suggestion. Why not make those Havoks infiltrators and that gives you Obliteratos and Havoks to kill the "big stuff". With that much firepower, they should be able to do it in short order and retreat, points intact, possibly to cut off an avenue of advance while they're back there. .They and your Raptors will certainly take heat off your advancing troops who then can afford Stealth Adept better than MoCu just based on the lesser volume of fire they will face in the first couple rounds. Net result: less casualties.

4. Night Lords don't like Daemons especially (see Night Lord section for a little commentary on that) so while they certainly DO use the winged terrors you've got there, I wonder if those are the points that could be used for the added Raptors? One thing about Furies is, they can be "checked" to death. In a round they could lose casualties to a tank shock (or two) pinning attacks (see Tau and Space Marines for details) and then of course casualties themselves! It's a lot to ask of the little guys cause they tend to get out in the open very quickly and die. IF you keep them, consider them for taking objectives more than actual assaults (or maybe as a "cleanup squad".)

5. I think flamers on the standard squads is a better idea than on Raptors. Now Raptors are very likely to get stuck attacking Terminators and like units. As such, they will need something to soften them up first...something big. Something melta. Just one dead Terminator is worth at LEAST 50 points... a pretty good return on investment and a BIG difference in Power fists back at you. Of course your Obliterators and Havoks may also have a little something something for the termies but really, you dont want them worrying about infantry. They need to kill Carnifexes and Land Raiders before they think about that. So keep the meltas on the raptors, and put flamers in the hands of the advancing chaos horde behind you.

6. I think Heavy bolters are cool but if all yer getting is one extra shot (compared with moving up and then firing with a whole squad or even RAPID firing a whole squad) then maybe the rat-tat-tat it makes isn't really worth the loss of mobility. One car argue that Wraithlords (or enter host of violently nasty Warhammer thinjgs here) wont feel the bolters but I counter with this: Isn't that what we got the Havocs and Obliterators for? It is unlikely that the THING you fear most is going to have 4+ or worse armor anyways. So go Flamer.

**Wodin**

I know this is an older thread but I have been playing Night Lords for 3 years now and although I'm no expert I thought I'd give you my thoughts.

HQ

Chaos Lord - 1 Chaos Lord: Pair of Lightning Claws, Bionics, Frag Grenades, Personal Icon, Spiky Bits, Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Visage, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
176

The benefit of Visage on this guy with your Raptors is definatly worth it, minus 2 to enemy leadership works well if you hit a squad hard. Which you will 75% of the time. Yes wipeout moves can leave you in the open but if the rest of your army is effective enough you souldn't suffer to much. Drop the MoCU and add Furious Charge.

Elites

Obliterator Cult - 2 Obliterators.
140

Don't hide these guys in terrain.. It is amazing how much firepower players waste trying to rid you of these guys. Use them against priority targets and, pending dice rolls, you should be able to remove threats before the Oblits get wasted.

Troops

Chaos Space Marines 1 - 5 Chaos Marines: 4 Bolters, 1 Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate & Stealth Adept.
95

Chaos Space Marines 2 - 5 Chaos Marines: 4 Bolters, 1 Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate & Stealth Adept.
95

I like this idea if you use your terrain right they can be a big pain in the side for most armies and the HBs are great for cutting down hordes before you get eaten.

Chaos Space Marines 3 - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Chaos Marines: 6 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Infiltrate & Move Trough Cover.
182

Chaos Space Marines 4 - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Chaos Marines: 6 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 1 Meltagun, Infiltrate & Move Trough Cover.
182

Fairly standard here. My only suggestion links up with the Furries so I will continue there. (See Below)

Fast Attack

Chaos Raptors - Aspiring Champion: Bolt Pistol & Power Fist. 7 Raptors: 5 Bolt Pistols & CCWs, 2 Meltaguns, Mark of Chaos Undivided & Infiltrate.
312

These guys are an assault squad that needs to hit hard. My suggestion is drop the Meltaguns for Plasma Pistols. You have enough Tank kiling ability elsewhere and the extra attacks are worth it. Also Drop the MoCU and give them Furious Charge.

Daemonic Beasts - 10 Furies: Claws & Teeth.
150

I hate these with a passion. They have the worst Ld stat for demons and usually are a one hit wonder. Drop these and add Drop Pods (Dreadclaws) to your 2 larger Troop units. Remove the Troops Infiltrate and Move through cover and up them to 10 men also. The points left should cover the Furious Charge upgrade to your Raptors and Lord.

Drop your Troops in on priority targets like big guns/tanks giving you strife or use them to support your Raptors and Lord. Remember with Dreadclaws you can assault the turn you land.

If you dont want to use Dreadclaws then keep their Abilities and arm them with bolters. Walk them forward to give fire support to your Raptors and Lord.

Heavy Support

Chaos Havoks - 6 Chaos Marines: 3 Bolters, 3 Autocannons, Tank Hunters & Stealth Adept.
168

Use cover to your advantage and these guys will do well. If there is enough points left get another AC or a ML.

Overall your model count only drops by 4. But you will be in your opponents face from the getgo.

Well thats my thoughts. But with any advice your better to do what works best for you. Everyone has their own play style.

Oh and I run 3 x 8 Raptors in 2000pts with Furious Charge and Infiltrate. With 75 attacks including Asprins on turn one not alot stands up to them when I get to infiltrate. >

Disclaimer: Im currently at work and also havent played for a few months so if the points dont quite add up its due to my Grey Matter not functioning 100%

**Lemartes**

I would suggest keeping the autocannons w/tankhunter because the current enviorment is becoming very skimmer heavy. The Heavy bolter squads should be combined or plasma guns added instead. I would personally creat another Havoc squad with Hvy bolters and use the left over points for more troops to bolster your other squads. Your list actually looks pretty good other wise as far as fluff.