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I´m currently building up this army, so i thought i ask about some comments and what you think about it.

Doctrines

- Grenadiers

- Veterans

- Iron Discipline

- Die Hards

- Drop Troops

 

HQ

Junior Officer: Power Weapon, Refractor Field, Honorifica Imperialis, Iron Discipline, Die Hards

ELITE

Veterans (10): 3 Melta Guns, 7 Shotguns, Drop Troops

Veterans (10): 3 Melta Guns, 7 Shotguns, Drop Troops

Veterans (10): 3 Melta Guns, 7 Shotguns, Drop Troops

TROOPS

Stormtroopers (10): 2 Plasma Guns

Stormtroopers (10): 2 Plasma Guns

Stormtroopers (10): 2 Plasma Guns

Chimera (Transporter): Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra Armor

Chimera (Transporter): Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra Armor

Chimera (Transporter): Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Extra Armor

FAST ATTACK

Hellhound: Extra Armor

Sentinel: Lascannon, Armored Crew Compartment

Sentinel: Lascannon, Armored Crew Compartment

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ Battletank: Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Extra Armor

Leman Russ Battletank: Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Extra Armor

Basilisk: Armored Crew Compartment, Extra Armor

Total 1750 Points

I think it packs quite a punch, what do you think?

gimmicky, and the model count is too low.

I'd think you'd have problems with skimmer-heavy armies. Not enough shots to reliably keep them stunned/shaken. I dunno...my gut feeling is that it lacks models and firepower, but I don't use as many vehicles normally. Some of the upgrades seem unecessary; you could save quite a few points dropping the enclosed cabins, side skirts, JO wargear and extra veterans (they're mostly suicide troops anyway). Could get another scoring unit or two in with those points.

Grenadiers will always be more of a fun list, but it is playable. If your going to play it that way, you probably want to be mechanized as well.

I'll let H.M.B.C write the 3+ pages of suggestions I would write if I wasn't extremely lazy. (there is plenty of fat to be trimmed from this list)

The usual way to do drop veterans is five strong with triple plasma. Unless they end up in the front arc of a threatening vehicle, plasma does just as well as melta against pretty much everything, better against infantry. Grimaldi more or less hit the nail on the head.

Lascannons and armoured crew compartments make those Sentinels a little more expensive than that with which my personal taste is comfortable. A simple open-topped Mars pattern Sentinel works OK as a cheapish drop unit, using the same principle as plasma vets - target flank armour - and is just as good against MEQs.

Avoiding mechanized does let you take vets instead on stormies for drop squads. Not a terrible call IMHO. Ditching the extra armour from the chimeras would probably be a good call - that or swopping it for heavy stubbers to complete the "little Predator" impression. (worse S, AV and BS but the same number of dice.)mChimmies are IFVs not APCs - their job is to park and shoot, moving only as neccessary for the mission. Extra armour is therefore not as important to them as for Rhinos.

My view on the list is that you should focus on getting as many chimera chassis on the table as possible. The fifteen veterans and six stormtroopers that could be trimmed would give you, in terms of models, just about enough for an ordinary infantry platoon, which IMHO make the best caddies for lascannon. Also, keep in mind all command squads can get chimeras and carry special weapons, which lets them do about the same job as the Grenadiers you have in the list all ready. Using ordinary infantry, Die Hards ought really become Close Order Drill for the free leadership and initiative. Personally, I see Grenadiers as a device to run a nearly armoured company at lower army points values - storm troopers are not great buys.

If you want a more survivable HIJO, IMHO all you want is a Medallion Crimson. 5+ invulnerable is all well and good until you fail one save and he turns into jello. CHQs should also have 11 point flags.

No doubt - as Rain notes - H. ought to be along presently to make some firmer points. Sticking to orthodox internet-style units will make your first few games slightly less frustrating against more experienced players and allow a lot of the generic tactical advice passed out to new IG players to be more applicable to you. One thing you have done right is to post the list pre-buy, as nothing sucks more for a new player than purchasing and painting units only to find they are not as useful as one had thought looking at their entry.

GL with the list.

Thanks for your replies.

I know that those sentinels are a bit expensive, but i just cant stand the idea of the adeptus mechanicus forgetting to seal the top of a combat walker making a snorchel for the driver during longer rain periods necessery.

Stubbers on Chims maybe effective, but firing them makes the vehicle open topped what makes them more vulnerable.

I dont want to take Ordinary infantry platoons because this is supposed to be an elite combat formation.

The Storms are supposed to cover the flanks of the tanks from infantry, not to race around unless very necessery. I think i got enough Armor firepower to weaken the enemy, while the drop troops open a second flank, hunt Vehicles, bind the enemy on his side in cc, so that the Russ, Chims and Basilisk  can further pound the enemy. Thats why the vets are 10 man strong and got shotguns and meltas, so they can still charge.

The primary goal is to first destroy everything with anti tank ability then cleaning up.

 

 

Pintle mounted heavy stubbers do not make chimeras, or any other guard vehicle open topped, even if they are modelled with the commander firing them. Models firing from the fire points on a chimera make the vehicle open topped, but there is no such designation for the pintle mounted weapons.

Thats nice! How much do they cost again or what could i drop for it?

I have a similar list. I put 3-6 man veteran squads w/ 3 pg and las cannon. Grenadiers have 3- 6 man squads with 2 pg. this allows for 2 AT support squads with sharpshooter w/ mls and 2 support squads w/HB sharpshooters. Basilisk and Leman Russ. Command squad of junior off. and 4 pg. All troops have carapace armor and sometimes camo as we play a lot of battles with heavy cover.

RB

Your list looks fun, but in terms of competetiveness it is a bit lacking. Not to say its a weak list, just not as good as Gaurd can be.

The sentinals are a bad idea with all the gizmos, they will still die very, very easily, and putting more points into them makes them even bigger tagets for your opponant.

the vet squads with shot guns look really cool, but the extra bodies are wasted points. You DONT want to charge unless you have no other recourse. ever. You want your BS4 vets shooting, not getting butchered in HtH. if you are in HtH, something went wrong. Gearing up squads to get into close combat is counter productive.
This is what will happen when the vet squads drop in, they will shoot the hell out of something, then they will get wasted. Making the squad bigger just gives your opponant more Vp's when he wipes them out. which he will.

If you love the stormtroopers, keep them, but they cost a lot of points and still die really easily and they dont have the best range. Your chimeras really shouldnt be moving too close ot the enemy, their best role is to sit in cover and shoot like mad. The storm troopers will not have a lot to do, and god forbid they walk forward. They can protect your flanks, but from what? They are expensive and hit hard at 12", but fast infantry will get into them quick and eat them up, and shooty squads will out shoot them from a distance. Their points could be better used elsewhere.
You could save some points by not taking the extra armor on the chimeras, because as noted, they should not be moving that much. The heavy stubber costs way too many points for what it adds, IMHO. i never use them.

Your ranged anti tank is pretty lacking. all you have is the two sentinal las cannons, which will die really quickly as they will be high on any enemy's target priority list.

The bassie doesnt need the armored crew compartment, it should be hidden. Improved comms would be better as it will allow you to get those dropping vets in when you need them.

Also, your HQ is equiped really strangely. I would highly recomend NOT gearing them up for assault which it looks like you are doing. They will just die and give up their points. Gear them up for leadership bonuses or make them a suicide drop squad with 4 special weapons.

the Russ's look good, although i prefer 3 heavy bolters instead of two and a las.

the hellhound is a great tank, i love them.


Your list looks fun, but it deffinately has some weaknesses. I would recomend more infantry with las cannons as when those two sentinals die (and they will) you will have no ranged anti tank weapons. Your model count is really low as well. But if you really want to stick with the elite them and go all storm troopers, run with it. Just know the limitations you are setting for yourself and that an optimized, non-elite style gaurd army will be inherently more powerful. But who knows, maybe you will rock the house with this list. From experiance though, i have two busddies who run gaurd a lot like this, and my normal infantry heavy Gaurd school them every time.

Good luck with it, I love playing my gaurd army.

I got 4 Lascannons, 2 Battlecannons, 1 Tremorcannon, 9 Melta guns, 6 Plasma guns and 3 Autocannons. I think i got some ranged anti tank potential.

Some yes, but not enough.

Two of those las cannons are on the Russ's, which means they should almost never fire unless you get a weapon destroyed result.

Two are on sentinals, which drop like flies and will have a big bright shoot me sign on them as they are the only real ranged anti tank threats. they go down and you are screwed.

Battle cannons suck at killing tanks.

by tremor cannon i think you mean earthshaker, and they are OK at killing tanks, but you are wasting the weapon by not shooting it at infantry.

Autocannons really arent that great at tank busting or for killing TMC's or Termies.

your plasma guns are on infantry that will most likely not get close enough to use them. any vehcile will most likely have greater range and kill them beyond where they can be hit back.

Not trying to be a dick, its just hat your list really is not that comeptetive. It may be a blast to play, but an optimized gaurd list will de everything you do in greater numbers.

here is an example of what a normal gaurd army can field at 1750:

Mine has:

7 las cannons in 7 different squads. Harder to kill and can all shoot different targets.

Battle cannon, Demolisher cannon and Bassie for anti infantry.

17 plasma guns

4 melta guns

2 hellhounds.

As you can see, a normal gaurd army will shoot you out of your boots. Not only are there more guns, there are more bodies around those guns keeping them firing ( i have 30 more infantry than you do). That means each of my guns will be harder to kill than yours. Baring statistical anamolies or horrible generalship, my army should shoot yours to pieces every single time.

Do you see what we are getting at?

Oh well, it doesnt really matter, if you like your army, play it.

Yeah, I'm going to have to chime in on the lack of good ranged A-T. The Guard need lascannons or mass deep-striking meltaguns. Battlecannons can do a number of light-to-medium vehicles (if you don't deviate) but STR8 is all too often just not enough against vehicles behind cover. In addition, your battlecannons will usually have to deal with the front armor of any given enemy vehicle, since the great beasts are hard to manuver. Frankly, the Russ and even the Bassie are more useful for taking out en masse Marine units or light infantry.

The Panzergrenadier concept is good, though -- you just have to follow it through. You're trying to hybridize two concepts here: Drop Troops and Mech Grenadiers. You'd be better off dropping one or the other, or at least severely reducing it. Getting some Drop Platoons instead of tanks could do this, as could upping your tank count with more Chimerae on the Vets, and giving yourself a different doctrine instead.

The sentinels are an example of not quite following through, as are the way you have the Vets configured. Bare-bones lascannon vets could help your list out more than shotgunning loonies.

Your squads are well-purposed, though, and autocannons on the Chimerae are a good choice. The list is actually at that point where you can leave it at "Pretty good" or make major changes to bring it to "tournement lean".

f you don't want to make any major changes to the list, trimming the vets to squads of 6-8, doing the same to the Stormies, and dropping the Bassie and Hellhound could let you fit in another Chimera + Stormtrooper squad, let you kit out your Lt.'s squad as a special weapon drop point, and have a few points left to play with.

Sorry, very disorganized post....but good luck!

-Adso

"I dont want to take Ordinary infantry platoons because this is supposed to be an elite combat formation."

That's a pretty rigorous self-restriction. Knowing that, I'd vote for more panzer and less grenadiere - a LOT less grenadiere. IG "elite" infantry generally blow in any role besides suicide squads, compared to their cheaper, better led, and better armed counterparts. The best way to do it is probably to completely abandon the normal IG codex IMHO. Mechanized lists usually rely on their infantry for AT support - something, which for acceptable (IMHO) fluff reasons, you have chosen to exclude. I would say that this rules out the chimmie-chassis list (hellhound, basis, armoured fists/command chimmies/mechanized backed by cheap drop sentinels and vets/troopers) and pushes you towards one of two options: Armoured Company, or Iron Warriors. While the latter is hardly IG in any sense of the word, they have access to great elite infantry as well as great IG-style ordnance vehicles. Depending on your gaming groups' play habits you may or may not find it neccessary to look at these alternatives. i.e., if they are all very good sports and for instance would agree to reduce their lists by, say, 10% or 25% points value to compensate for the weakness of your list, then I say go for it - GW miniatures are incidentally perfectly functional for a variety of other sci-fi systems in print and gussy up homebrew systems to an excellent level. If, however, you plan on playing with the ten year olds down at the local store - and would like not to be mocked publicly by children - I would advise scrapping your entire concept.

GL with the list.

I was thinking over this army...I understand wanting to do an 'elite armored troops' list, but it is quite difficult with Guard.

You might try this layout to get maximum vehicles on the table, but I wouldn't wish this much chimera-painting on anyone except my enemies:

PANZER-GRENADIER CONCEPT FORCE

HQ ? 3 PG, Lascannon.
Chimera

2x Lascannon Sentinel

ELITES
6x Veterans: Lascannon
Chimera
6x Veterans: Lascannon
Chimera
6x Veterans: Lascannon
Chimera

TROOPS
8x Grenadiers ? 2 PG
Chimera
8x Grenadiers ? 2 PG
Chimera
8x Grenadiers ? 2 PG
Chimera

FAST

2x Autocannon Sentinel
2x Autocannon Sentinel
2x Lascannon Sentinel

HEAVY

Russ
Russ
Bassie or Russ Demolisher

That puts seven Chimerae, eight Sentinels, and three heavier tanks on the board. If line of sight issues don't choke you, it might work out ok. Just make sure to prioritize your targets well -- the lascannons in this list are quite fragile, but enough should make it to turns one and two to fire effectively.

-Adso