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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 19:22:30
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Gwar! wrote:Kaaihn wrote:People can stick their fingers in their ears all they want and sing lalalalalalalalalala but it won't change the fact that it is public knowledge and individually verifiable that GW writes for RAI, not RAW. If you are playing by strict RAW, you are not playing the game the way the writers designed it to be played.
Please can you give this "verification" because I have yet to see any actual verifiable sources.
Until then I am going to have to take what the Writers intended to write (as they would not have written them if they did not intend to write them) and use that as the bases for how I play.
You are the one asserting this claim, it is up to you to provide proof, or to provide compensation for me to attend this Gamesday and acquire the audiovisual material in question.
Why do I need to provide proof to something you already stated you agreed 100% with?
Kaaihn wrote:I understand your point about not knowing the RAI so you just go with RAW. I think you are intentionally ignoring quite a bit though in your goal of sticking to pure RAW. Most of the RAI is very clear.
What you seem to object to is having to discuss and come to an agreement with an opponent a ruling where the RAI does not match the RAW. You seem to want to use the RAW no matter how wrong it is written to be able to avoid the discussion and have a written standard. Again, that's your right, but it misses part of the point of the design of the game. That part being the social interaction the game forces on us by requiring some discussion on how we agree to play some things in our game.
Personally, I would rather have a tightly written game that makes sense and and socialize with my opponent about anything I want as we play, rather than the current model, but it is what it is. I don't think the game is worth playing if you stick to pure RAW, as to much is just pointless nonsense that was never meant to be played that way.
Infantry blind spots are a great example of this.
Gwar! wrote:No, I agree 100% with you, it's just that you have to recognise that RaI is a very flimsy argument. I have no problem hammering out " RaI" solutions where needed, but I do not take kindly to people saying "THIS IS RAI BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!"
I know you are not, but I am just being pedantic 
I stated the game is not written to be played by pure RAW, it is written with the intent of being played by RAI. You completely agreed. Why are we still having this discussion?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 19:25:04
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Kaaihn wrote:I stated the game is not written to be played by pure RAW, it is written with the intent of being played by RAI. You completely agreed. Why are we still having this discussion?
Because what I think and what the Truth is are two very different things. I believe the game is intended to be played by the rules the writers intended to write. They did not unintentionally write the rules as they are. In essence, Playing RaW is Playing RaI. But people claiming " Dev XYZ said this" need to bring proof or stfu.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 19:25:34
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 19:29:17
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Gwar! wrote:I believe the game is intended to be played by the rules the writers intended to write.
THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING!!!!
I know what you meant, but this was funny.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 19:34:19
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Huge Bone Giant
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This whole thread is funny.
Note: It asks for RaW issues explicitely.
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 20:57:17
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Your thing about the space marines with 7 wounds is as insensible as blood angel marines being unable to disembark from a rhino.
So why is RaW any better than RaI? You claim that "they did not unintentionally write the rules as they are". Really? You claim that intentionally blood angels can't get out of their rhinos? What about the blood angel cyclone missile launcher? The lack of an entry means RaW a cyclone does nothing. So you can pay points for wargear that supposedly doesn't exist, and this isn't something that was changed by editions. This was a problem straight from the get go. The writer really intentionally did that?
Once again, the rules aren't written for rules as written. Did you read the big hoopla about Gav, his website, and the chaos codex? He justified what he wrote by saying they were just supposed to be "guidelines."
http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/differences-of-opinion/
And I quote Gav, former GW games designer:
"This approach has two main problems. Firstly, it creates a mindset of false legitimacy. This isn’t just in gaming, it’s in wider society as well. Some people feel entitled to place all responsiblity on the rules-makers (or lawmakers…) with the argument, ‘Well, the rules say I can do it.’ This fundamentally diverts the choices a person makes onto somebody else, absolving them of blame (in their mind). By moving away from a set of rules that tries to legislate for every single possibility, and instead return to the original idea that these books are as much a guide to players as they are rulebooks, we sought to bring back both the responsiblity and the power for players to make the decisions for themselves. They are a framework for players to collect an army of miniature soldiers not a dictat on the way they must do so."
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/09/25 21:18:25
"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 20:57:46
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Glitch, double post.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 20:58:13
"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:07:32
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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scuddman wrote:You claim that intentionally blood angels can't get out of their rhinos?
Yes What about the blood angel cyclone missile launcher?
Yes The lack of an entry means RaW a cyclone does nothing. So you can pay points for wargear that supposedly doesn't exist, and this isn't something that was changed by editions. This was a problem straight from the get go. The writer really intentionally did that?
Well, yes. he wrote it as such, so he intended to write it as it was written, or are you implying GW accidentally wrote a Blood Angels codex?
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Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:20:38
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Yeah? Well gav says the game designers write them as guidelines, not as hard rules...so what do you have to say to that?
Once again, not written for RaW. If it's not an official contract, it's not legal in court. Same logic.
Like I said, ask any game designer at GW, they say the same thing. Gav for something completely unrelated said the same thing I said Jervis said. I hate to say I told you so, but well, I told you so.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/09/25 21:24:27
"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:22:36
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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scuddman wrote:Yeah? Well gav says the game designers write them as guidelines, not as hard rules...so what do you have to say to that?
[Citation Needed]
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Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:24:53
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Let me repost
Your thing about the space marines with 7 wounds is as insensible as blood angel marines being unable to disembark from a rhino.
So why is RaW any better than RaI? You claim that "they did not unintentionally write the rules as they are". Really? You claim that intentionally blood angels can't get out of their rhinos? What about the blood angel cyclone missile launcher? The lack of an entry means RaW a cyclone does nothing. So you can pay points for wargear that supposedly doesn't exist, and this isn't something that was changed by editions. This was a problem straight from the get go. The writer really intentionally did that?
Once again, the rules aren't written for rules as written. Did you read the big hoopla about Gav, his website, and the chaos codex? He justified what he wrote by saying they were just supposed to be "guidelines."
http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/differences-of-opinion/
And I quote Gav, former GW games designer:
"This approach has two main problems. Firstly, it creates a mindset of false legitimacy. This isn’t just in gaming, it’s in wider society as well. Some people feel entitled to place all responsiblity on the rules-makers (or lawmakers…) with the argument, ‘Well, the rules say I can do it.’ This fundamentally diverts the choices a person makes onto somebody else, absolving them of blame (in their mind). By moving away from a set of rules that tries to legislate for every single possibility, and instead return to the original idea that these books are as much a guide to players as they are rulebooks, we sought to bring back both the responsiblity and the power for players to make the decisions for themselves. They are a framework for players to collect an army of miniature soldiers not a dictat on the way they must do so."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 21:25:50
"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:28:44
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Yes, that Blog by "Gav" has been posted before. I too can make a Blog and Say I am Gav. In fact, I am Gav! And Jervis! When I say [Citation Needed], I mean one that can't be forged by a 9 year old.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 21:29:27
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:30:57
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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This very line encapsulates my frustration with the GW design team:
"The current Codex is about a very simple foundation that allows players to make hobby-based, aesthetic decisions regarding their army without worrying about the gaming implications.
And there's nothing RaW that says I can't use a sharpie and make my own rules.
I quote on p. 2 of the rulebook:
"The most important rule is that the rules aren't all that important! SO long as both players agree, you can treat them as sacrosanct or mere guidelines-the choice is entirely yours."
RaW, the only legal requirement to using a sharpie and making my own rules is that both players agree.
Edit: Once again, not written for RaW, and I might add, it's "the most important rule." Funny enough, RaW, treating the rules as sacrosant like you are doing is only okay so long as both players agree to play that way...
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2009/09/25 21:40:39
"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:53:16
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Huge Bone Giant
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scuddman wrote:. . . and instead return to the original idea that these books are as much a guide to players as they are rulebooks, we sought to bring back both the responsiblity and the power for players to make the decisions for themselves.
So it is just as acceptable to use the rulebooks as . . . rulebooks, as it is to use them as guides for your own rules. If you just use them as a guide, it is 100% acceptable to play that SMs have 7 wounds, unless they are SW, then they have 6 but FnP.
If you want to assume they intentionally wrote something that they did not intend, it is fine. You may have a harder time convicing someone else of your "common sense interpretation", but that is fine too.
Even so, there are going to be rules in the game played - and they need to be discussed prior to play. It seems absurd to think it will cause more problems to use the rules written by the designers of the game. Though perhaps that is just me.
This may be against common sense, but you will have more issue asserting this in a thread with the words " Raw Issues" in the title, but again, that is fine.
scuddman wrote:They are a framework for players to collect an army of miniature soldiers not a dictat on the way they must do so."
Also, you do realize that this sentence is about collecting models, not playing 40k with them?
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 21:59:11
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Yes, but 'they" was referring to codecies.
Codecies are a framework for players to collect an army...etc. etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
scuddman wrote:This very line encapsulates my frustration with the GW design team:
"The current Codex is about a very simple foundation that allows players to make hobby-based, aesthetic decisions regarding their army without worrying about the gaming implications.
This very line explains what the GW design team is trying to do. They are not trying to make a good game. The codecies are a foundation that allows players to make hobby based, aesthetic decision. Aesthetic. Hobby based. There is no room for proper game rule or game design, because They are not designed with gameplay in mind.
I've long been of the opinion that GW can combine both. Well-written clean, concise rules are not mutually exclusive from making a foundation based on hobby or aesthetics. But they don't feel the same way as I do and have told me as such.
Anyways, I've derailed your thread enough, GWAR, sorry about that. I'll make a new topic and clear this thread for you.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/09/25 22:09:48
"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 22:09:54
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Gwar! wrote:scuddman wrote:I wouldn't know this much about stuff unless I worked for GW.
Or, ya know, had a mate who did...
Stop being so crass GWAR. As for the whole RAI thing, Jervis has made it very clear in numerous white dwarf articles that he could really give a flying feth about RAW...he is a freaking Fluff Bunny for heavens sake.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/09/25 22:14:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 23:06:34
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Gwar! wrote:Yes, that Blog by "Gav" has been posted before. I too can make a Blog and Say I am Gav.
In fact, I am Gav! And Jervis!
When I say [Citation Needed], I mean one that can't be forged by a 9 year old.
Does this surprise anyone? Anyone at all?
Some people will not believe no matter what. Give them proof, they will invent a new standard you must meet for their satisfaction every single time.
This type of thing is about as classic fingers in the ears singing lalalalalalala as it gets. Automatically Appended Next Post: wyomingfox wrote:Gwar! wrote:scuddman wrote:I wouldn't know this much about stuff unless I worked for GW.
Or, ya know, had a mate who did...
Stop being so crass GWAR. As for the whole RAI thing, Jervis has made it very clear in numerous white dwarf articles that he could really give a flying feth about RAW...he is a freaking Fluff Bunny for heavens sake.
I don't regularly follow White Dwarf. Is there an issue and page number you can cite where Jervis (or any of the codex authors) say this? I've seen excerpts and know it to be true, but I would like to read the articles in their entirety for myself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 23:08:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 23:10:59
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Kaaihn wrote:Gwar! wrote:Yes, that Blog by "Gav" has been posted before. I too can make a Blog and Say I am Gav. In fact, I am Gav! And Jervis! When I say [Citation Needed], I mean one that can't be forged by a 9 year old.
Does this surprise anyone? Anyone at all? Some people will not believe no matter what. Give them proof, they will invent a new standard you must meet for their satisfaction every single time. This type of thing is about as classic fingers in the ears singing lalalalalalala as it gets.
No, give me actual proof first time around. Once I see a verifiable citation, I will accept it. in any case, how can you argue what the writers have written is not what they intended to write? If they did not intend to write it, the codex would never have been written at all.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 23:12:10
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 23:25:12
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Gwar! wrote:in any case, how can you argue what the writers have written is not what they intended to write? If they did not intend to write it, the codex would never have been written at all.
Because I understand that what they write is clear to them as working how they envision something to work. That does not mean what they wrote will be clear to everyone else. Nor will it always actually work how they envision it should; sometimes it doesn't work at all.
Your really not trying to convince me that they intentionally write broken rules, are you? Such as Bjorn's reroll rule, which is completely useless as it's written? A 10 year old knows whats intended, but as its written it does nothing. Your saying it exists, doing nothing, on purpose?
That's about as idiotic as claiming that Gav's blog isn't Gav...oh, wait.
There is overwhelming evidence that GW does not intentionally write bad rules. They do it unintentionally and either don't realize it, or don't care to improve their mistakes once they see them.
Picture Jervis saying to someone "It makes sense to me, people can do whatever they want with it. I'm not making a Dummies book or technical manual here". That's 40K.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 23:36:30
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Kaaihn wrote:Your really not trying to convince me that they intentionally write broken rules, are you? Such as Bjorn's reroll rule, which is completely useless as it's written? A 10 year old knows whats intended, but as its written it does nothing. Your saying it exists, doing nothing, on purpose?
Obviously it was. Without any errata to the contrary, the only conclusion that can 100% be based on fact is that they intentionally wrote the rule to do nothing.
That's about as idiotic as claiming that Gav's blog isn't Gav...oh, wait.
No need for Insults. If you can prove it his blog, please do.
There is overwhelming evidence that GW does not intentionally write bad rules. They do it unintentionally and either don't realize it, or don't care to improve their mistakes once they see them.
Again, please provide this evidence.
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Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/25 23:48:56
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Kaaihn wrote:
wyomingfox wrote:Gwar! wrote:scuddman wrote:I wouldn't know this much about stuff unless I worked for GW.
Or, ya know, had a mate who did...
Stop being so crass GWAR. As for the whole RAI thing, Jervis has made it very clear in numerous white dwarf articles that he could really give a flying feth about RAW...he is a freaking Fluff Bunny for heavens sake.
I don't regularly follow White Dwarf. Is there an issue and page number you can cite where Jervis (or any of the codex authors) say this? I've seen excerpts and know it to be true, but I would like to read the articles in their entirety for myself.
It was a standard bearers article that I read last year. I don't keep them past 6 months except for the painting articles which I clip out. I will check my recent ones and see if he reitterated himself.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 00:31:32
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Gwar! wrote:Kaaihn wrote:That's about as idiotic as claiming that Gav's blog isn't Gav...oh, wait.
No need for Insults. If you can prove it his blog, please do.
I'm not insulting you as a person, I'm stating that I find the burden of proof you are requiring to be idiotic in my opinion. Your burden of proof that I have seen consists of "nothing online that is contrary to any opinion I have is real", and I think that is just a nonsensical position to take.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 14:32:05
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
The great state of Florida
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How do we know that the person claiming to be Gwar is actually Gwar? Someone could have hacked his account and post here. From now I do not consider anything posted under the username Gwar as serious... It could be anyone just posting to troll the forums. As such none of the rules discussions posted by the person posting under the username Gwar have any bearing on these discussions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 14:52:59
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Afrikan Blonde wrote:How do we know that the person claiming to be Gwar is actually Gwar? Someone could have hacked his account and post here. From now I do not consider anything posted under the username Gwar as serious... It could be anyone just posting to troll the forums. As such none of the rules discussions posted by the person posting under the username Gwar have any bearing on these discussions.
You don't. However, I do not claim to be the Writer of Warhammer 40k, nor do I claim by views hold any more weight than anyone else. And do not worry, I have never considered anything you post to be serious.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/26 14:53:27
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 15:39:07
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
The great state of Florida
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You do seem to want us to take your discussion of the rules seriously though, seriously? I can't based on the fact that you could be anyone posting under the username. A lot of people think you or whoever you are simply trolls this forum. I have to say it sure seems to be the case.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 16:11:25
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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In truth it is ridiculous to start making the "you can't prove it" argument... because we can go infinitely far down that rabbit hole.
Considering what Gav (who, BTW was likely fired for writing bad books) said on that weblog, considered just how loosely the rules are consistently written (I.E. still using the term "charge" despite it not being in the rules), I fully believe the idea that the GW design team places very, very little priority on writing tight rules.
That being said, I also don't think that writing poor rules does anything to help them retain their target audience: the not-so-hardcore-gamer.
Like many problems primarily attributed to tournament gaming, I've seen rules disputes ruin many casual games. The two players become entrenched in their arguments, and then either finish the game unhappy, or just stop playing that game. Then, very often, they won't come back to the game store next week, or for a few weeks, or ever.
I think (just through observation, no actual proof) that GW has been correlating their success with the idea that they've been doing everything right. I think that they've been doing some things very right... but if they cleaned up their rules they would be even more successful.
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Why did the berzerker cross the road?
Gwar! wrote:Willydstyle has it correct
Gwar! wrote:Yup you're absolutely right
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 16:20:27
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
The great state of Florida
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Arguing that a rule does not work because it contains the word 'charge' is silly and does not help anyone. The intent is crystal clear and only someone seeking to troll this forum would bring it up in my opinion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 16:32:01
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Afrikan Blonde wrote:Arguing that a rule does not work because it contains the word 'charge' is silly and does not help anyone. The intent is crystal clear and only someone seeking to troll this forum would bring it up in my opinion.
And what intent was that? Because to me the Intent was to make a rule that does not work. If the author did not intend to write it, it would not have written it at all. Anyway, to get back on topic, here is a good one: Wolf Scouts cannot make a Scout Move, because they do not have the "Scouts" USR
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/26 16:35:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 16:42:10
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
The great state of Florida
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So you honestly believe that GW writes rules intentionally not to work? Is that what you are saying? If so why should anyone take what you post seriously?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 16:57:24
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Afrikan Blonde wrote:So you honestly believe that GW writes rules intentionally not to work?
I believe that the author of a Codex intentionally hit the keys of whatever input device he or she was using in a certain order to spell certain words. Why would a book be printed if such an action was unintentional?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/26 16:57:49
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/09/26 17:01:03
Subject: Space Wolf RaW Issues
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
The great state of Florida
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What kind of answer is that?
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