Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Meh. The American War of Independence means a lot more to you guys than us because it's part of your nation's (brief) history. We've lost plenty of wars, liberated a lot of colonial territories, but we're still lucky enough to be punching way above our weight culturally, economically and politically.

This is such a silly thread, I can't believe it's lasted this long. MS hits it on the head (and a Leman Russ as physically portrayed is as maneuverable as a shed) that it was made up in the UK, and 99% of the minds still inputting into the idea are British.

On the other divergent topics, what does the future hold for US/UK rivalry? Anyone want to make any predictions as to where we'll all be 2100?

Apart from under 20ft of water, fighting Mad Max style over ipods and viagra of course...

Luco wrote:So they teach you that you won the revolutionary war? Obviously we did something right as we split from you and became our own nation.

There's that 'we' again.... Of course they don't teach British children that The British Empire won the American War of Independence. In fact they don't teach the War of Independence at all, it's a footnote to British history.

My point is that kids going around saying 'yeah, we kicked your ass and got our independence!!' is pathetic. You personally had about as much to do with it as I have to do with defeating the Kaiser, conquering India or discovering Australia. It's stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captain Roderick wrote:On the other divergent topics, what does the future hold for US/UK rivalry? Anyone want to make any predictions as to where we'll all be 2100?

Apart from under 20ft of water, fighting Mad Max style over ipods and viagra of course...

I don't think America will last another 100 years in it's present incarnation. I think that in that time, one or more states will secede from the union and the whole thing will break apart into smaller countries.

Albatross wrote:I don't think America will last another 100 years in it's present incarnation. I think that in that time, one or more states will secede from the union and the whole thing will break apart into smaller countries.

And Frazz will get his happy Great Country of Texas

"But I'd like to see a Leman Russ make it around a traffic circle (or roundabout if preferred) "

its a battle tank. it goes over the roundabout.

Albatross wrote:

Luco wrote:So they teach you that you won the revolutionary war? Obviously we did something right as we split from you and became our own nation.

There's that 'we' again.... Of course they don't teach British children that The British Empire won the American War of Independence. In fact they don't teach the War of Independence at all, it's a footnote to British history.

My point is that kids going around saying 'yeah, we kicked your ass and got our independence!!' is pathetic. You personally had about as much to do with it as I have to do with defeating the Kaiser, conquering India or discovering Australia. It's stupid.

I'm sorry that you have no connection with your people or care for the successes of your family. You standing for only yourself is kinda sad.

Luco wrote:

Albatross wrote:

Luco wrote:So they teach you that you won the revolutionary war? Obviously we did something right as we split from you and became our own nation.

There's that 'we' again.... Of course they don't teach British children that The British Empire won the American War of Independence. In fact they don't teach the War of Independence at all, it's a footnote to British history.

My point is that kids going around saying 'yeah, we kicked your ass and got our independence!!' is pathetic. You personally had about as much to do with it as I have to do with defeating the Kaiser, conquering India or discovering Australia. It's stupid.

I'm sorry that you have no connection with your people or care for the successes of your family. You standing for only yourself is kinda sad.

WTF are you talking about? I am very patriotic, I'm basically a nationalist! However, I'm not about to claim credit for something I had feth all to do with, and neither should you.

Albatross wrote:

Luco wrote:
I'm sorry that you have no connection with your people or care for the successes of your family. You standing for only yourself is kinda sad.

WTF are you talking about? I am very patriotic, I'm basically a nationalist! However, I'm not about to claim credit for something I had feth all to do with, and neither should you.

Language 'Tross!

I think the defining line here is that (from what I've observed) Americans tend to set more importance in their ancestry, since they have only a short history. Thus 8th-generation Americans call themselves Irish, or Scots or whatever whereas in the UK we have a long, long history and take a more philosophical view. I, for example, am British, even though my family is Scots since about the 13th century and I spent most of my life there, and I don't claim any personal connection to historical events, no matter how pivotal and important to my nation's history.

Luco, you should read Made In America by Bill Bryson.

And 'Tross, a nationalist you are indeed.

It is ridiculous to think that modern-day Britain and modern-day USA went back in time to the 18th century to fight a war to see who is the hardest, and the Americans won so that makes their nation the greatest.

At the time the colonists were almost entirely British and had very British political ideas -- they wanted representation in Westminster and couldn't get it.

One of the reasons the rebellion succeeded was that a large chunk of the British population and power elite had sympathy with their claims and aims, so they did not support the war.

Kilkrazy wrote:It is ridiculous to think that modern-day Britain and modern-day USA went back in time to the 18th century to fight a war to see who is the hardest, and the Americans won so that makes their nation the greatest.

At the time the colonists were almost entirely British and had very British political ideas -- they wanted representation in Westminster and couldn't get it.

One of the reasons the rebellion succeeded was that a large chunk of the British population and power elite had sympathy with their claims and aims, so they did not support the war.

QFT.

The war that included American's winning independance was France, Spain, the Dutch Republic, and America (in descending order of military importance to the war) VS Britain. Without the French to save you you'd all be drinking tea right now like good little colonials!

Not that British people really care about that war. As someone else noted, it's just a historical footnote. The raw wound that's more likely to annoy us is saying you won WW2, when really it was the Russians.

Rube wrote:
Not that British people really care about that war. As someone else noted, it's just a historical footnote. The raw wound that's more likely to annoy us is saying you won WW2, when really it was the Russians.

The Russians "helped" by steamrolling nazi Germany, the Americans helped by sending supplys and troops, it was teamwork mate.

Klawjaw wrote:

Rube wrote:
Not that British people really care about that war. As someone else noted, it's just a historical footnote. The raw wound that's more likely to annoy us is saying you won WW2, when really it was the Russians.

The Russians "helped" by steamrolling nazi Germany, the Americans helped by sending supplys and troops, it was teamwork mate.

QFT. Let's not leave anyone out, after all. Besides, technically the US did win WWII, as they were on the winning side at the time.

While we remember the sterling Soviet contribution to Allied victory, let's also not forget that the Nazis would not have got so far if the Soviets hadn't been their allies for nearly the first two years.

The ordinary people of the USSR paid in blood for the mistakes of the leaders.

Luco wrote:

Krauser wrote:
The Native America spot is taken by the DA.

How did you arrive at that theory? Please explain, I am intrigued.

Read the fluff for the deathwing, when they first painted their armour white.

Its something like:
DA get to a recruiting planet most (or all, cant recall correctly) of the population is 'nid food.
Population which was pretty much a copy paste of native americans.

add to that the feathers you find in some of the miniatures and some other descriptions in that book and you have Native America DA.

Luco wrote:So they teach you that you won the revolutionary war? Obviously we did something right as we split from you and became our own nation.

I believe he's referring to you personally, since you choose to refer to the exploits of your country in the past as your own:

AKA, "we kicked your ass!"

Besides, everyone knows the Frenchies did it >

Ya know guys, this site IS meant for discussion on plastic soldiers, not political debate....

Besides, as Roderick said, an event a hundred years ago has no connection with you whatsoever. At that time you were just a speck of DNA in you're ancestors sperm....
And besides, the entire reason the Americans were the majority of the D day landing force was American was coz our amy had been fighting overseas for 4 years already and was in a bit of a poor state. And the Russians invaded Germany. The Americans mainly were island hopping in the pacific. And then they went completely over-the-top and nuked horashima, killing 100,000 people 15,000 of whom were children. But that was your ancestors, not you (unless you're really sad.)

Just would like to say that over across the sea, teachers teach us that the only reason we won was because of Valley Forge and the nattle of Saratoga. The French are as just as much of a footnote as the Miamis were.

Thus are national myths created and sustained.

Krauser wrote:

Luco wrote:

Krauser wrote:
The Native America spot is taken by the DA.

How did you arrive at that theory? Please explain, I am intrigued.

Read the fluff for the deathwing, when they first painted their armour white.

Its something like:
DA get to a recruiting planet most (or all, cant recall correctly) of the population is 'nid food.
Population which was pretty much a copy paste of native americans.

add to that the feathers you find in some of the miniatures and some other descriptions in that book and you have Native America DA.

I have read the Tale of Two Heads Talking. That is one incident on a single world that the DA recruited from of the hundreds. Caliban was a knight world and the Dark Angels keep Knightly traditions (distinctly European), the naming convention is distinctly from Judeo-Christian lore, the history is that of the Holy German Empire and the Reformation and yet 4 members are native american and it makes the entire chapter native american? You must be joking yes?

And then they went completely over-the-top and nuked horashima, killing 100,000 people 15,000 of whom were children

If you think that invading Japan and having a body count of over 2 million is better than a mere 100,000 something is wrong with you. I thank God that my ancestors had the spine to do what the modern man does not. If it were up to modern men to wage the war we would have invaded, taken 5,000 losses then arranged a peace deal and left the Imperial structure of Japan and much of its infrastructure left to strike back.

aka_tizz wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:Most countries in Europe have the drivers seat on the left, and Another reason they may have won is because the Guardsmen use the british curse, "arse"

I assume that's what you meant in fact, as in most European countries the driving is done on the right. Except UK of course, they are the ones doing it wrong

Ahem.
The original reason for driving on the left was to enable you to draw your sword with your right hand.
However, with the prevelance of CC combat in 40k it is logical to drive on the left.

Luco wrote:

Krauser wrote:

Luco wrote:

Krauser wrote:
The Native America spot is taken by the DA.

How did you arrive at that theory? Please explain, I am intrigued.

Read the fluff for the deathwing, when they first painted their armour white.

Its something like:
DA get to a recruiting planet most (or all, cant recall correctly) of the population is 'nid food.
Population which was pretty much a copy paste of native americans.

add to that the feathers you find in some of the miniatures and some other descriptions in that book and you have Native America DA.

I have read the Tale of Two Heads Talking. That is one incident on a single world that the DA recruited from of the hundreds. Caliban was a knight world and the Dark Angels keep Knightly traditions (distinctly European), the naming convention is distinctly from Judeo-Christian lore, the history is that of the Holy German Empire and the Reformation and yet 4 members are native american and it makes the entire chapter native american? You must be joking yes?

[Fanatic mode ON] Nah, the knight theme is taken by the black templars, sorry, get another boat [Fanatic mode OFF]

Well, if you add to the novel/text I mentioned the fact that DA miniatures love to be adorned by feathers (besides robes) and you have a plausible explanation for them being Native americans. (Even though caliban was in fact ruled by a knightly society IIRC)