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What the hell is artificial food? Japan imports the vast majority of it's food, is that insanity?

Japan dont get 15 kids per family smartass.

So you advocate aiding the starving by letting them die, thus fixing the problem because they aren't starving any more. You're a fething genius.

I advocate teaching them how to farm and build irrigation, not to drown them in artificial food when they arent even able to sustain themselves and the same problem still remains even after they are now 3 times as many. Who is the genius again.

So you would instead enforce farm education on a starving and dying population without equipment that is roughly 50% illiterate. Say, would they have time to till the fields while you educate them? How would your educators deal with the reoccurring civil and foreign wars? The repeated droughts? WOULD YOU JUST TEACH THEM IRRIGATION AGAIN AFTER THEY ALL STARVED TO DEATH AS PER YOUR FIRST PLAN? SEEMS A LITTLE REDUNDANT. WHY NOT JUST BOMB THEM IF WE'RE GONNA SPEND THE MONEY..

If I keep getting 15 kids with each generation, then whine about 7 of them not having enough food and then some bleeding heart imbecil "solves" my moronic lack of intellect by giving me as much free food as I want well how is the future going to look then?
Keep hiding your head in the sand singing lalala, as long as you feel good it´s ok right?

Now the result is a 110 million large population in a country whose people doesnt even have the intellect, social maturity, education or technical progress to even uphold a 30 million populace.
Great job do-gooder.

Yes, they have a high population growth rate. Thats what happens in under educated agrarian populations. More kids counteracts infant death and children work the fields.

And letting every one survive by throwing food at them without any counter demands (like birth control) is better then teaching them to sustain a balance that lets them better their society in their own pace? 6% of them are suffering from AIDS today but I guess you are ok with a miserable 115 million population as long as 1 million didint have to starve and learn 35 years ago.

Interesting fact, ethiopian birth rates have fallen steadily since 1975.

Still a fact. Not having fallen enough abviously. Your oh so dear massive aid campaign that is still ongoing (still UN is asking for food aid or else 3 million people risk starving over there)
didnt do squad, the country is still amongs the 12 poorest on earth, has massive illiteracy problems and STILL breads like mad but hey, lets keep throwing food and aid at them and by now I fully agree, stopping the aid idiocy will effectively kill of dozens and dozens of millions of people as contrary to 35 years ago when they at least had a chance of being thought how to do right.
This idiotic feel-good aid thinking has created a monster of a country with people suffering like never before and still they cant feed themselves.

Actually the number is 5 and birth rates have nothing to do with the declining health of ethiopian farming and according to historic trends would logically aid it were it functional.

It´s very simple.
If farming and/or other national means of producing food are inadequate to upkeep a certain population what happens then?
Throwing more food from the outside to artificially create a population three times as big in virtually no time at all while maintaining the illiteracy levels is intelligent?
Allow me to laugh.

Well thats nice. So we're back to your solution of "just let them die". How civilized.

Thanks for making it sound like I wanted to mass murder all 32 millions of ethiopians.
Maybe you should think a bit more on what foreign policies you yourself have voted into power in your own country first you hypocrite.

Besides, blame Darwin and nature not me.
Letting 1 person of 11 people die so that the 10 left can handle their future and learn how to live is not "evil".
Irresponsibly letting the 11 people grow to be 35 in just two generations while STILL having as little food as when they were 11 IS pure and simple, evil and we can all thank feel-good people like yourself for this.

So dont pretend to lecture me on being civilized, I havent voted a leadership into power (US) that is and acts oh so civilized in the name of oil under cover of "democracy" and "liberty" in other countries.

Logically there would be a mass exodus from ethiopia as historically occurs during famines. Fifty million people wouldn't just drop down and have gold coins come out of their corpses.

Logically? Logically you are the winner of the most naive dakkaite in history.
A 50 million people exodus on what air conditioned lorries? More likely donkeys or on foot across hundreds of miles of barren land?
Through where, bordering countries that were recently at war with one another?

50 million people forcefully moving in africa would result in deaths and wars that would put the congo massacres to shame.

Yes, and you're only stated reason is because "It prevents people from dying". Thats not a very good argument when the stated intention of the food aid is to prevent people from dying.

I´d rather have 10 persons die of natural causes due to their own stupidity today and help the rest by teaching them how to fish then wait a couple of years only to have situation where 600 people stand on the brink of death tomorrow with regional wars as a side effect should I slip up one of my food transports or go bankrupt myself and not afford foreign aid for a period of time.

Solving stale, aging populations by lowering population growth leads to economic failure and generation gaps. You have to have new people to replace the old ones and either way it has nothing the hell to do with ethiopia in either case.

I never said replacing was bad, I said growth was.
You can never, ever solve anything long term in a closed system by adding never ending growth to it. A child understands that.

THIS IS THE WORST POST I'VE SEEN IN MONTHS

This is the worst reply I have seen in ages.

Leigen_Zero wrote:

htj wrote:

Ledabot wrote:Do you know how hard it is to talk about this without being racist?

Really not very difficult at all, unless you ascribe the cause of Africa's current problems to the majority of residents being black. You can criticise the governments, comment on the state of the economy, point out the viability of Western style government, farming, and social control techniques, or the counter, but not once do you have to say 'because they're black.' Sorted, racism free observations on the subject.

The sad fact of the matter is that 80% of the time, any mention of something negative + any african nation in the same sentence will immediately cause the other person to play the racist card, you don't even need to mention skin colour etc, it's immediately assumed that because you are having a negative conversation about africa you must therefore be racist...

This is true, and you're right, it is sad. Knee jerk name calling is always the easier way out. But, calling an argument racist does not make it racist. It just makes the caller ignorant. And then we can safely ignore their comments!

Since 2001 the arable land in Ethiopia has increased by nearly 40%.

Irrelevant since the population has increased so much the country is deemed still not being able to produce enough food for themselves for at least one whole generation.
Still UN asks for food aid since people are in need of it.

The whole arable land improvements should have been started before supporting the mass growth of the population.

My God, you really have no idea what you're talking about. Birth rate always, always increases in excess of rates of education, standard of living, and morality in any undeveloped economy. That's how it worked in the West up until about 150 years ago.

The whole west 150 years ago when "it worked like that" didnt have food aid the size of what ethiopia was given from some magical outside source.

Besides, encouraging birth rates by throwing more food on the fire created such a wonderful place they have right now.

Pyriel- wrote:

So you advocate aiding the starving by letting them die, thus fixing the problem because they aren't starving any more. You're a fething genius.

I advocate teaching them how to farm and build irrigation, not to drown them in artificial food when they arent even able to sustain themselves and the same problem still remains even after they are now 3 times as many. Who is the genius again.

The starvation in Ethiopia wasn't due to a lack of intelligence, knowledge of proper farming techniques, or social maturity. A drought caused a small (relatively, compared to what came next) famine. The government tried to step in and made things worse. Then there was a revolution, the socialists won, and they made things even worse.

Ethiopia is a prime example where witholding food is used as a weapon of war (or subverting the population, depending on the state of civil war). And it worked.

If you're so self-centered that you believe another million humans is worth the existence of the other species on this planet, then sure, we're haven't reached a population cap - Yet. But realistically, I think we're well over-populated already. Our species current state (including our growth rate) is not sustainable, because we do end up consuming more and more land year after year. And we do end up driving other species to extinction, to satisfy our seeming unquenchable need to keep going.

Exactly. The problem is people are to sheltered and full of arrogance today. Ntural laws governing balance and population sizes are thrown out of the window since intellectually challenged people voting with their "feelings" only see the immediate future or dont have the right education to make a wise choice.

Wherever I look I see the same thing, Oh its so cruel to let a million people die today, lets stick our heads in the sand and throw money at the problem to make us feel good not caring that they just created crap a hundred times worse in the future.
The current economy is a prime example of this albeit with different resources.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

But they don't, that's why Malthus was wrong.

He was right in the sense that there is a point at which consumption will exceed production, but that point isn't necessarily now or in the near future.

Oh, did he include massive sources of food aid thrown at the demographical problem?

Pyriel- wrote:
Logically? Logically you are the winner of the most naive dakkaite in history.

That isn't what "logic" means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pyriel- wrote:
Oh, did he include massive sources of food aid thrown at the demographical problem?

No, he spoke about global ecological limits. The sort of thing which transcends the relevance of any sot of situational allocation of food, or water.

Also, the word is "demographic".

dogma wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:
Logically? Logically you are the winner of the most naive dakkaite in history.

That isn't what "logic" means.

Also, it's 'Dakkanaut.' Also, wasn't this thread about banning children in a restaurant?

I think you've got two different arguments going on there. The first relates to sustainability of homo sapiens sapiens, and the second relates to the sustainability of species other than homo sapiens sapiens. I'm not convinced that they're clearly interlinked any more than the survival of wolves is necessarily connected to the survival of one of its prey species; particularly given the human potential for adaptation.

I´d very much like to see other species preserved.

They might not be interlinked but they are certainly pushed out towards and even outside of their natural habitats by ever growing humans and that causes friction and problems for other species.

I don't know what you mean by "not sustainable" because, to my mind, nothing is sustainable in a permanent sense. Can you clarify?

LOL
Then a growing state is even worse...

Pyriel- wrote:
Irrelevant since the population has increased so much the country is deemed still not being able to produce enough food for themselves for at least one whole generation.

No, no it isn't. The rough necessity rate of survival for non-industrial agricultural production in any possible nation is 5%. Ethiopia triples that.

Pyriel- wrote:
Still UN asks for food aid since people are in need of it.

No, the UN provides food aid because food is expensive, and Ethiopia is poor.

Pyriel- wrote:
The whole arable land improvements should have been started before supporting the mass growth of the population.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

On Pyriel-'s comment, I often wondered when i was younger why people kept having children if it ment that they had to share their food around, causing them all to be hungery, then I took economics as a subject. We need poor people to make our stuff, but africa seems to be one giant hole, what does anyone get out of it. nothing.

Do you know how hard it is to talk about this without being racist?

You are 100% correct.

Unless we in the developed world change our entire economical system and I mean to its very core, these problems and poor people/countries will by default ever be part of the equation.
Sucks but this is reality and unless something of an extraordinary magnitude happens we wont change.

Pyriel- wrote:
I´d very much like to see other species preserved.

Too bad.

Pyriel- wrote:
They might not be interlinked but they are certainly pushed out towards and even outside of their natural habitats by ever growing humans and that causes friction and problems for other species.

So?

Pyriel- wrote:
LOL
Then a growing state is even worse...

Cute, you don't know what words mean. Perhaps you should leave this to native speakers.

Also, the word is "demographic".

Sorry. Not my primary lingo.
I know 4 others though

No, no it isn't. The rough necessity rate of survival for non-industrial agricultural production in any possible nation is 5%. Ethiopia triples that.

No since one curve is upheld artificially.

No, the UN provides food aid because food is expensive, and Ethiopia is poor.

Yes and no. Since they are to many for the food they dont have and cant produce themselves they ask for more!

And yes biccat it is a question of intelligence as well.
If I am to poor to feed my child then I dont go get 10 more do I?

to quote my friend at college...<text redacted; your friend in college shouldn't be using that language on Dakka, either --Janthkin>


Automatically Appended Next Post:
this quote is in reference to people claiming racist comments were posted.

Pyriel- wrote:

Also, the word is "demographic".

Sorry. Not my primary lingo.
I know 4 others though

Do you make stuff up in all four or just English?

Do you make stuff up in all four or just English?

Two.
You?

I make up things in all languages...all you have to do is make noises that sound similiar to the language and you are talking!!!just kidding

Pyriel- wrote:
Sorry. Not my primary lingo.
I know 4 others though

Serio? Je parle Francais, arabic, potugues, catala, y un pequeno mandarina.

Pyriel- wrote:
No since one curve is upheld artificially.

Do you not understand the difference between domestic production and food aid

Pyriel- wrote:

Do you make stuff up in all four or just English?

Two.
You?

Me? I don't pretend being multilingual has any bearing on facts or moral superiority. I certainly don't use it as a crutch when I've been consistently shown to be ill informed as some sort of "I win" button. I suppose when you can't argue anything relevant it is worth leaning on though if you need the rush/crutch.

Serio? Je parle Francais, arabic, potugues, catala, y un pequeno mandarina.

Cool dude
Mowie po polsku, moi czeski je dostacujici, lite norsk, english of course och så svenska.
I wont even mention the german as I am far from proficient in that but enough to get by.

Do you not understand the difference between domestic production and food aid

Yes why?
I dont like you mixing in food production and population growth theories with outside sources like outside aid.

Me? I don't pretend being multilingual has any bearing on facts or moral superiority. I certainly don't use it as a crutch when I've been consistently shown to be ill informed as some sort of "I win" button. I suppose when you can't argue anything relevant it is worth leaning on though if you need the rush/crutch.

You must have me mistaken with somebody who takes you seriously.

Pyriel- wrote:
Yes why?
I dont like you mixing in food production and population growth theories with outside sources like outside aid.

Do you manufacture/grow all your own food?

Pyriel- wrote:

Me? I don't pretend being multilingual has any bearing on facts or moral superiority. I certainly don't use it as a crutch when I've been consistently shown to be ill informed as some sort of "I win" button. I suppose when you can't argue anything relevant it is worth leaning on though if you need the rush/crutch.

You must have me mistaken with somebody who takes you seriously.

It was your question and in response to your silly statement. Or are you admitting to not meaning anything you have said this entire time? Or perhaps, as has been stated, you don't actually know what you are talking about so you have to fall back on these sort of juvenile retorts instead of either being thoughtful or clever.

It was your question and in response to your silly statement. Or are you admitting to not meaning anything you have said this entire time? Or perhaps, as has been stated, you don't actually know what you are talking about so you have to fall back on these sort of juvenile retorts instead of either being thoughtful or clever.

I am aware of your opinion, take your juvenile crap else where.

You take a thing I mentioned as a fun fact and try to twist it into some sort of last effort attempt at crushing my opponents or some other smoked up dream you have going on.
Are you that insecure that you need to find little comments and blow them out of their proportions in order to feed your self righteous self?

See, I can also play around with stupid assumptions so please take yours and shove them somewhere I dont want to look for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Do you manufacture/grow all your own food?

Certainly not.

Do you demand free aid after spending all your money on candy the first day of the month?

<thread terminated; if you cannot play nicely, then USE THE IGNORE FEATURE - it will save me work, and protect your posting privileges>