Occupy "World" Protests- Decrying Everything "Evil"

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**Phanatik**

Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

**purplefood**

Phanatik wrote:Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

I don't know who/what Soros is...

**dogma**

Phanatik wrote:Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

I thought that was the Koch brothers, but then maybe I'm confusing my theories intended to make sides of the political spectrum appear discreditable.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:
I don't know who/what Soros is...

George Soros

**Monster Rain**

Phanatik wrote:Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

I thought it was the Lizard People.

Or the Zionists. Or Zionist Lizard People.

**dogma**

We lizard people are firmly opposed to Israel's existence, thank you very much....

Oh no, I've said too much!

**purplefood**

Seems like a nice enough chap.
Actually he seem to pretty much share my political beliefs...
Though he seems a bit intense...

**Monster Rain**

dogma wrote:We lizard people are firmly opposed to Israel's existence, thank you very much....

Oh no, I've said too much!

I always suspected. So what's Katy Perry like?

Yes, there are people that think Katy Perry is a reptilian shapeshifter.

**dogma**

Monster Rain wrote:
I always suspected. So what's Katy Perry like?

Her boobs are bigger in her true form.

**Ahtman**

Everyone knows reptiles have huge knockers.

**dogma**

So, what you're saying is that the British Isles are the center of Reptilian society?

**Ahtman**

dogma wrote:So, what you're saying is that the British Isles are the center of Reptilian society?

Was there ever any doubt?

**Albatross**

We are watching you, Mammals...

**sebster**

Phanatik wrote:You seem to be advocating, or find "interesting" what the early Nazi's proposed in Germany.
You seem not to have any problem with heading down the slippery slope.

Please show the rest of us where in the constitution it says that the government has the authority to decide executive compensation?

The completely ridiculous reference to Nazi Germany is beautiful in and of itself, but when you also consider the US already has limits on executive pay*, it might have become the most perfect piece of rightwing nonsense I've ever read on dakka.

*On the tax deductibility of salary paid over $1 million. Clinton brought it in. It included a comically obvious loophole that you could still pay stocks and bonuses over and above that $1 million, and the result was no effective cap on salaries at all. That's kind of the black comedy about this whole thing, while the right wing twists themselves in knots to panic about how a limit on executive pay means death camps are just around the corner, the left wing spends their time crafting legislation that seems almost specifically crafted to not actually do anything.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Phanatik wrote:Since when do I require you to sign off on anything I post?

As I explained in the other thread, this isn't about whether or not we approve of your posts. The question is what you think you're getting out of your time on Dakka.

What result did you honestly expect to get out of your post claiming caps on executive salaries was a slippery slope towards Hitler? Did you think a bunch of people would read it and think 'hmmm, well I like capping the pay of corporate executives, but I really don't like Hitler, and if this guy on the internet said one led to the other it must be true, so I better stop supporting a pay cap on executives."

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Phanatik wrote:CEOs don't have value?

Of course they do, they have considerable value.

Can you now claim the value of those CEOs was determined at arm's length, with no subjectivity involved? Can you claim that the value of those CEOs has grown by a factor of around ten, to justify the growth in real remuneration paid to the average CEO in the past two decades?

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Easy E wrote:I will admit, I'm not an economist.

Business is all about incentives. The more jobs I outsource, the more money I take home. I think we can all agree what any "rational" actor in the market would do then right. Outsource those jobs.

Therefore, we have to simply change the incentives to keep jobs in the U.S., thereby making it more likely that such jobs will stay, and people here can work.

Is the answer to long term US prosperity to keep low skilled jobs at home when they can be done by labour outside the US, or is to grow new skilled jobs at home?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Phanatik wrote:Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

If having a wealthy backed de-legitimises a movement, do you feel the Tea Party is similarly de-legitimised through the backing of the Kock Brothers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:I always suspected. So what's Katy Perry like?

Yes, there are people that think Katy Perry is a reptilian shapeshifter.

You know what, I'd still do her.

**DIDM**

in Portland it is hard to tell the difference from the bums, and the pretend bums these past few days

we have people sleeping in parks every day, what is new, and why the hell would any company care?

**Ahtman**

DIDM wrote:in Portland it is hard to tell the difference from the bums, and the pretend bums these past few days

They way to tell the difference is to see where they go. If they go into the statehouse you know they are a State politician, if they sleep on the steps of the statehouse then it is a 50/50 that it is a homeless guy.

**Albatross**

...Or mattyrm, drunk, on holiday.

**Frazzled**

purplefood wrote:
Phanatik wrote:Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

I don't know who/what Soros is...

Exactly.

We walked past the patheticness that is the Occupy Houston group. There were about thirty, not counting the three-four genuine homeless who were hanign out in the same park. One homeless guy was watching enviously at all the food and stuff they had.

It doesn't help your argument when you have a nice flat screen hooked up. Its not nearly as convincing.

On the positve the whole area did indeed wreak.

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Monster Rain wrote:
Phanatik wrote:Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

I thought it was the Lizard People.

Or the Zionists. Or Zionist Lizard People.

Lizard People. Not nearly as cool as Crab People, but still cool nonetheless.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:
dogma wrote:So, what you're saying is that the British Isles are the center of Reptilian society?

Was there ever any doubt?

So much is so clear now.

TBone the Terrible likes lizards when he gets within six inches of them and sees them. They entertains him they do.
Rodney the Rocketing Wiener Dog With Special Needs doesn't. They remind him of snakes. He kills snakes for sport, and rolls on their corpses in his wiener dog victory dance.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:...Or mattyrm, drunk, because its 8.00AM.

Corrected your typo

**Phanatik**

The question is what you think you're getting out of your time on Dakka.

Once again, it's really none of your concern to trouble yourself with whether or not I find my time on dakka worthwhile. Also, to do so is not a refutation of anything I've said.

sebster wrote:What result did you honestly expect to get out of your post claiming caps on executive salaries was a slippery slope towards Hitler?

In your rush to criticize, you don't seem to have comphrehended what I said. I said early Nazi. I never mentioned Hitler.

Phanatik wrote:Well, doesn't everyone know that Soros is funding all of the left-wing groups?

sebster wrote:If having a wealthy backed de-legitimises a movement, do you feel the Tea Party is similarly de-legitimised through the backing of the Kock Brothers.

First of all, it's Koch brothers. Second, I don't think they ever collaborated with the Nazis, or made their money by wrecking foreign currencies, thus destroying the life savings of millions of people.

Regards,

**Frazzled**

Due to their age, it would have been difficultfor the Koch's to collaborate with the Nazis.

On the flip side the one everyone talks about personally is kind of butthead.

**Easy E**

sebster wrote: Is the answer to long term US prosperity to keep low skilled jobs at home when they can be done by labour outside the US, or is to grow new skilled jobs at home?

We have reached a point where all jobs can be outsourced regardless of skill level. It doesn't matter whether it is high skill or low skill.

The city of Delhi puts out 4 times as many college graduates in a year as my local metropolis. Think your white collar or lab coat jobs are safe from outsourcing because it requires special training or high skill? With modern communication methods and data transmission, think again. I know because part of my job is about getting work to people overseas instead of here. Like I said before, I am 'Teh EEEEVIL!1!!1"

The only jobs that are safe are ones where you have to be in the same place as what you are doing, like mechanic, nurse, etc. Instead, they will just continue to stratify these positions with lower skill/lower wage equivalents such as the infamous "Nurse Practitioner" instead of an actual nurse or doctor. That's how you lower labor costs so you can maximize your executive bonuses... wait I mean shareholder value.

**Frazzled**

Uh oh, evil Wall Street backed Senate blocked the first cutout portion of the Obama Jobs plan (again). Evil Wall Street, er Senate, er whatever.
Curse you evil Republicans and Democrats!

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/20/obamas-jobs-bill-fails-second-senate-test on a 50-50 vote.

**Melissia**

Frazzled, stop trying to put out strawmen, it's just making me want to strangle you. I already get that feeling enough these days :\

**Frazzled**

Melissia wrote:Frazzled, stop trying to put out strawmen, it's just making me want to strangle you. I already get that feeling enough these days :\

Strawmen? I don't think anyone in the Senate are made of straw. Most of them look pretty fat to me.

**Phanatik**

And some of them are women.

**Melissia**

Well yeah, they've been raiding what's left of the straw reserves in Texas after our summer drought.

**Phanatik**

Frazzled wrote:Due to their age, it would have been difficult for the Koch's to collaborate with the Nazis.

You've forgotten Mr. Peabody's Wayback Machine.

Best,

**vercingatorix**

So about overpaid CEO's
first of all, when lehman brothers collapsed, no one lost more money, than Lehman brothers CEO.
second: his pay was almost entirely in lehman stock which he had sold about 500 million dollars worth from 2000 to 2007. That seems like a lot of money but when you realize that his company was controlling assets worth 688 BILLION, he's really payed a pretty reasonable amount. (for instance if someone managed a 2 million dollar resturaunt for the same time period. They'd get payed less than 17k over 7 years.)

The thing with business that people hate is that it scales. Melissa, you can only do so much whatever you do with chemistry to earn money. That will only create so much value. Financial industry has no such limitations.

The best way to decrease that disparity is educate people on getting in on the prosperity! Not killing it out of some sory of jealous fit.

Oh and Melissa, if you don't want job security to depend on merit, there's a whole lot of government workers that you should talk to before CEOs.

Also, on taxing the rich. First of all, I have a minor in accounting and Corporate profits actually get taxed twice. The corporate entity gets taxed and then dividends given to investors get taxed.

Secondly, 47% of the country isn't even paying taxes and half of those are actually EARNING money from the government. In the near future, if your paying taxes, you'll be in a minority. We are already taxing the rich, considerably. the thing is that every time you cast a net trying to get rich peoples money, you're going to miss. Because rich people got that money by being smart with money and they'll probably outwit whatever government 9-5 not paid by how good he does his job accountant who comes to get it. whenever you cast that net, you're going to hit the rest of the 53% that pays taxes and can't afford accountants with a law degree.

**Frazzled**

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/10/occupy_animal_farm_the_organiz.html?mid=twitter_DailyIntel

The Organizers vs. the Organized in Zuccotti Park
10/20/11 at 5:38 PM 32Comments
It began, as it so often does, with a drum circle.
Photo: Andrew Burton/AP

All occupiers are equal — but some occupiers are more equal than others. In wind-whipped Zuccotti Park, new divisions and hierarchies are threatening to upend Occupy Wall Street and its leaderless collective.

As the protest has grown, some of the occupiers have spontaneously taken charge on projects large and small. But many of the people in Zuccotti Park aren't taking direction well, leading to a tense Thursday of political disagreements, the occasional shouting match, and at least one fistfight.

It began, as it so often does, with a drum circle. The ten-hour groove marathons weren’t sitting well with the neighborhood’s community board, the ironically situated High School of Economics and Finance that sits on the corner of Zuccotti Park, or many of the sleep-deprived protesters.

“[The high school] couldn’t teach,” explained Josh Nelson, a 27-year-old occupier from Nebraska. “And we’ve had issues with the drummers too. They drum incessantly all day, and really loud.” Facilitators spearheaded a General Assembly proposal to limit the drumming to two hours a day. “The drumming is a major issue which has the potential to get us kicked out," said Lauren Digion, a leader on the sanitation working group.

But the drums were fun. They brought in publicity and money. Many non-facilitators were infuriated by the decision and claimed that it had been forced through the General Assembly.

“They’re imposing a structure on the natural flow of music," said Seth Harper, an 18-year-old from Georgia. “The GA decided to do it ... they suppressed people’s opinions. I wanted to do introduce a different proposal, but a big black organizer chick with an Afro said I couldn’t.”

To Shane Engelerdt, a 19-year-old from Jersey City and self-described former “head drummer,” this amounted to a Jacobinic betrayal. “They are becoming the government we’re trying to protest," he said. "They didn’t even give the drummers a say ... Drumming is the heartbeat of this movement. Look around: This is dead, you need a pulse to keep something alive.”

The drummers claim that the finance working group even levied a percussion tax of sorts, taking up to half of the $150-300 a day that the drum circle was receiving in tips. “Now they have over $500,000 from all sorts of places,” said Engelerdt. “We’re like, what’s going on here? They’re like the banks we’re protesting."

All belongings and money in the park are supposed to be held in common, but property rights reared their capitalistic head when facilitators went to clean up the park, which was looking more like a shantytown than usual after several days of wind and rain. The local community board was due to send in an inspector, so the facilitators and cleaners started moving tarps, bags, and personal belongings into a big pile in order to clean the park.

But some refused to budge. A bearded man began to gather up a tarp and an occupier emerged from beneath, screaming: “You’re going to break my fething tent, get that gak off!” Near the front of the park, two men in hoodies staged a meta-sit-in, fearful that their belongings would be lost or appropriated.

Daniel Zetah, a 35-year-old lead facilitator from Minnesota, mounted a bench. “We need to clear this out. There are a bunch of kids coming to stay here.” One of the hoodied men fought back: “I’m not giving up my space for fething kids. They have parents and homes. My parents are dead. This is my space.”

Other organizers were more blunt. “If you don’t want to be part of this group, then you can just leave,” yelled a facilitator in a button-down shirt, “Every week we clean our house.” Seth Harper, the pro-drummer proletarian, chimed in on the side of the sitters. “We disagree on how we should clean it. A lot of us disagree with the pile.” Zetah, tall and imposing with a fiery red beard, closed debate with a sigh. “We’re all big boys and girls. Let’s do this.” As he told me afterwards, “A lot of people are like spoiled children." The cure? A cold snap. “Personally, I cannot wait for winter. It will clear out these people who aren’t here for the right reasons. Bring on the snow. The real revolutionaries will stay in -50 degrees.”

“The sunshine protestors will leave,” said “Zonkers,” a 20-year-old cleaner and longtime occupier from Tennessee. (He asked that his name not be used due to a felony marijuana conviction.) “The people who remain are the people who care. You get a lot of crust punks, silly kids, people who want to panhandle ... It disgusts me. These people are here for a block party.”

Another argument broke out next to the pile of appropriated belongings, growing taller by the minute. A man named Sage Roberts desperately rifled through the pile, looking for a sleeping bag. “They’ve taken my stuff,” he muttered. Lauren Digion, the sanitation group leader, broke in: “This isn’t your stuff. You got all this stuff from comfort [the working group]. It belongs to comfort.”

And as I spoke to Michael Glaser, a 26-year-old Chicagoan helping lead winter preparation efforts, a physical fight broke out between a cleaner and a camper just feet from us.

“When cleanups happen, people get mad,” Glaser said. “This is its own city. Within every city there are people who freeload, who make people’s lives miserable. We just deal with it. We can’t kick them out.”

In response to dissatisfaction with the consensus General Assembly, many facilitators have adopted a new “spokescouncil” model, which allows each working group to act independently without securing the will of the collective. “This streamlines it,” argued Zonkers. “The GA is unwieldy, cumbersome, and redundant."

From today’s battles, it’s not yet clear who will win the day: the organizers or the organized. But the month-long protest has clearly grown and evolved to a point where a truly leaderless movement will risk eviction — or, worse, insurrection.

As the communal sleeping bag argument between Lauren Digion and Sage Roberts threatened to get out of hand, a facilitator in a red hat walked by, brow furrowed. “Remember? You’re not allowed to do any more interviews,” he said to Digion. She nodded and went back to work. But when Roberts shouted, “Don’t tell me what to do!” Digion couldn't hold back.

“Someone has to be told what to do," she said. "Someone needs to give orders. There’s no sense of order in this fething place.”

**Orlanth**

Monster Rain wrote:
dogma wrote:We lizard people are firmly opposed to Israel's existence, thank you very much....

Oh no, I've said too much!

I always suspected. So what's Katy Perry like?

Yes, there are people that think Katy Perry is a reptilian shapeshifter.

Do you guys like rats?

**Mr. Burning**

Frazzled, at first I thought you had made that article up. Then I read it.

It was delicious.

They’re imposing a structure on the natural flow of music

I’m not giving up my space for fething kids. They have parents and homes. My parents are dead. This is my space.

“Personally, I cannot wait for winter. It will clear out these people who aren’t here for the right reasons. Bring on the snow. The real revolutionaries will stay in -50 degrees.

“When cleanups happen, people get mad,” Glaser said. “This is its own city. Within every city there are people who freeload, who make people’s lives miserable. We just deal with it. We can’t kick them out.”

“Someone has to be told what to do," she said. "Someone needs to give orders. There’s no sense of order in this fething place.”

I can't help but feel overly cynical and sadly, apathetic, about the occupy protests and protesting in general about austerity measures.

This 99% were quite happy to ride the coat tails of the 1% before the bust. It's almost as if the protetsors are lashing out at their own niavety. And yet, they still want water turned into wine.