Discussion of US gun laws

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**Lynata**

And the right to vote was initially limited to men.

zomg democracy is sexist! Abolish democracy!

**Frazzled**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Been doing some research on gun control in America, and found some interesting facts:

1) A guy called Gage tried to seize some guns, and apparently, it led to a minor skirkmish called the revolution

2) After the Nat Turner rebellion in 1831, some states passed laws banning African Americans from owning guns.

3) After the civil war, more states passed laws banning African Americans from owning guns.

4) In the 1960s, images of African Americans arming themselves prompted calls for more gun control...seems to be a pattern emerging here

To sum up, I've always supported the idea of people gunning down crooks if their life is threatened, but after reading about the racist element behind gun control (I'm an ethnic minority to those that don't know), I'm edging more towards being pro-gun.

I don't know how to say this, but could Frazz and other pro-gun posters on this site be right? The horror....

Gun regulation was passed in Texas in the late 1800s for a very similar reason.

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Lynata wrote:And the right to vote was initially limited to men.

zomg democracy is sexist! Abolish democracy!

Wrong you nattering nabob of delictationness! It was limited to men of substance, men of...Property.
(insert gentling waving American flag here)

**Lynata**

Frazzled wrote:It was limited to men of substance, men of...Property.
(insert gentling waving American flag here)

My bad.

Here, you can have this one:

**Spacemanvic**

Jihadin wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States

Goes back to more then 50 yrs

And of those, all but one occurred in areas where guns were banned.

Simple really. Make an area a "gun free" zone, and you've given a shooter a target rich environment with little or no threat to themselves.

Interesting video:

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Relapse wrote:I like the Penn and Teller take on gun control

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=SCXtfR0_roE

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A Town Called Malus wrote:
Relapse wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:True, I was refering to the base difference between the Mafia and local petty gangs. Of which both a real hardcore criminals.

Of course neither has anything on Mexican cartels.

Fix 'er for ya relapse:

**Lynata**

Spacemanvic wrote:Simple really. Make an area a "gun free" zone, and you've given a shooter a target rich environment with little or no threat to themselves.

Sure, as long as you can get your guns in the next town. That's pretty much common sense.

Actually, this reminds me of that American Dad episode where they ban trans fat in Langley Falls.

**Grey Templar**

I always found this quote humerous

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!”

- Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

**MrDwhitey**

Indeed, full gun registration caused WW2.

**Relapse**

The Penn and Teller gun control show runs for a few more segments on youtube.

**Jihadin**

The Canadian Firearms Registry was part of the Firearms Act and was managed by the Canadian Firearms Program of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). It required the registration of all restricted and prohibited firearms in Canada. It was introduced by the Liberal government of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien in 1993 and implemented by successive Justice Ministers Allan Rock and Anne McLellan. The net annual operating cost of the program is reported to be $66.4 million for the 2010-2011 fiscal year.[1]

Originally the program required the registration of all non-restricted firearms but this requirement was dropped on April 6, 2012 by the coming into force of Bill C-19.[2][3] Bill C-19 also mandated the destruction of the non-restricted records of the registry as soon as feasible.[4] The Province of Quebec immediately filed a request for an injunction to prevent the destruction of the data. A temporary injunction was granted by the Superior Court of Quebec on April 5, 2012 to prevent the data for Quebec residents from being destroyed until legal arguments could be heard.[5]

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Not "flaming" here but whats the deal my northern brothers

**Grey Templar**

So they made a law that all Illegal firearms be registered

Sorry, but that brings fail to a whole new level.

**Jihadin**

Think there was more to it though. It didn't solve any crimes if I remember. Article from "Fox news" but I didn't see it on CNN site. Between those two sites one should figure out the nugget of truth in there.

**Grey Templar**

Meh, who cares what the Canadians do.

Of course this legeslation could result in their criminals coming over here to buy guns

**Ouze**

Grey Templar wrote:I always found this quote humerous

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!”

- Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

It's only "humerous" in how it's totally made up.

**Lynata**

Ouze wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:I always found this quote humerous

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!”
- Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

It's only "humerous" in how it's totally made up.

Aww, and I already wanted to mention that the streets did become safer, sort of.

Nice find, though! I like how that website specifically points out this fake quote's use in attempts to justify objection to gun control.

**Kaldor**

http://www.smh.com.au/national/howards-gun-legacy--200-lives-saved-a-year-20100829-13xne.html

I'll just leave this here.

**MrMerlin**

Oh, this discussion is quite a bit longer since I last was here....

anyway, I still think that with an average of one death by firearm per hour, you guys should get rid of at least a few of them!
Oh and with thousands of people shot a year, the gun control should be discussed not only after a massacre (which, I know it sounds cynical, only accounts for a fraction of the annual firearm casualities! Accidents are the most common cause!) but every day. Becuase just yesterday, about 20 people got shot. Just as today. And tomorrow. Because accidents happen when guns are lying around!!

**Spacemanvic**

MrDwhitey wrote:Indeed, full gun registration caused WW2.

No, it allowed a dictator to take over. Thugs hate when someone fights back. Then he went ahead and started WW2. It's amazing what the idiot masses allow to happen to themselves under the guise of "protection" (Patriot Act for one). Its equally puzzling to expect the police to be there when you really need them.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

The 1938 German Weapons Act

The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."[4]
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]
The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]
The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.[5]
Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammunition.[6]

Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.

On November 11, 1938, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons. This regulation effectively deprived all Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons.[7]

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MrMerlin wrote:Oh, this discussion is quite a bit longer since I last was here....

anyway, I still think that with an average of one death by firearm per hour, you guys should get rid of at least a few of them!
Oh and with thousands of people shot a year, the gun control should be discussed not only after a massacre (which, I know it sounds cynical, only accounts for a fraction of the annual firearm casualities! Accidents are the most common cause!) but every day. Becuase just yesterday, about 20 people got shot. Just as today. And tomorrow. Because accidents happen when guns are lying around!!

Responsible gun ownership doesnt leave guns lying around. Irresponsible government disarms the citizenry, coddles the criminal and thinks it's compassionate.

Good god, will you people get your information from other than a pamphlet.

**Kaldor**

Spacemanvic wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:Indeed, full gun registration caused WW2.

No, it allowed a dictator to take over. Then he went ahead and started WW2. It's amazing what the idiot masses allow to happen to themselves under the guise of "protection" (Patriot Act for one). Its equally puzzling to expect the police to be there when you really need them.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

If you're relying on guns for protection, you're gonna have a bad time.

Also, if the jews had made a violent resistance to the Germans, their downfall would have been even quicker and much harder to condemn. They would have been painted as violent domestic terrorists, in addition to everything else. The only protection the people have from their own governments are the media and a sympathetic global community. The 2nd Amendment wouldn't be worth squat.

**SOFDC**

Because accidents happen when some negligent twit leaves his weapon lying around!!

Note the bold part. A gun exploding because of a bad heat treat is an accident. A gun firing because you flipped the selector from "SAFE" to "FIRE" is an accident.

Playing cowboy with the mirror and winding up putting a round through something and claiming "It just went off while I was cleaning it!" is not.
Playing a joke on someone while hunting that ends with "Aw it ain't loaded, see?" *Yanks trigger* is not an accident.
Leaving a firearm out of your immediate control and unsecured where idiots/children/baddies can get at it? That's not an accident, that's an idiot.

Simple really. Make an area a "gun free" zone, and you've given a shooter a target rich environment with little or no threat to themselves.

Don't forget to assume no liability or responsibility to physically protect those you have disarmed under force of law!

This part of society really does make me laugh. "No, you can't have a weapon to defend yourself here. I don't like it." "You going to protect me, then?" "Pfft heck no, that's someone else`s job!"

If you're relying on guns for protection, you're gonna have a bad time.

Tactically speaking, if you're drawing a gun in any sort of legally justifiable situation...what you're looking at is having a good chance at being in the ICU or a morgue by dawn. Relying on a gun or weapon of any type in that scenario is only half as bad a time as relying solely on screaming really loud at the police dispatcher on your cellphone.

Maybe it's different outside of the US and Canada, but our police (valiant though they usually are) have not yet developed phase gates, they will take time to get to you. A fair bit more time than it takes whatever situation going on in the moment to resolve itself.

**Frazzled**

Grey Templar wrote:Meh, who cares what the Canadians do.

Of course this legeslation could result in their criminals coming over here to buy guns

Not legally.

**Spacemanvic**

Frazzled wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Meh, who cares what the Canadians do.

Of course this legeslation could result in their criminals coming over here to buy guns

Not legally.

I heard there's a US President just giving them away to criminals.

**Frazzled**

Spacemanvic wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Meh, who cares what the Canadians do.

Of course this legeslation could result in their criminals coming over here to buy guns

Not legally.

I heard there's a US President just giving them away to criminals.

Thats strictly to the South. Its racism!

**Spacemanvic**

Kaldor wrote:
Spacemanvic wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:Indeed, full gun registration caused WW2.

No, it allowed a dictator to take over. Then he went ahead and started WW2. It's amazing what the idiot masses allow to happen to themselves under the guise of "protection" (Patriot Act for one). Its equally puzzling to expect the police to be there when you really need them.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

If you're relying on guns for protection, you're gonna have a bad time.

Also, if the jews had made a violent resistance to the Germans, their downfall would have been even quicker and much harder to condemn. They would have been painted as violent domestic terrorists, in addition to everything else. The only protection the people have from their own governments are the media and a sympathetic global community. The 2nd Amendment wouldn't be worth squat.

As a person who is still "free" in the United States, Ill man up and take my chances. Having a weapon to protect yourself increases your chances of surviving an violent altercation by at least 50% if youre only armed with a tearful plea of mercy.

I see youre from Australia. You wouldnt know about the US Constitution and the need for the 2nd Amendment.

Homicide with the use of a firearm HAS INCREASE BY over 50% from 2008 to 2009....

What? Criminals don’t comply with 'firearm' and 'crimes' legislation?? Surely not as long as we have strict gunlaws crime will evaporate...wont it?

Homicide in Australia

Year '06 '07 '08 '09

By firearm 29 25 19 30

Total 155 165 205 211

%FA 19 15 9 14

What else? The much proclaimed reduction of suicides is a figment of the imagination of certain 'interest groups who declare the reductions in firearm suicides are saving countless(!) lives AND substitution does not occur. What a load of crap:

Suicide in Australia

Year '06 '07 '08 '09

By firearm 155 167 170 164

Total 1799 1881 2191 2132

%FA 9 9 8 8

Note the reduction in percent firearm suicide; these mongrels will (do) claim lives are being saved - they discount the overall tally....

The real suicide figures;

year byFA total
1992 488 2294
1993 431 2081
1994 420 2258
1995 388 2368
1996 384 2393
1997 330 2720
1998 248 2683
1999 261 2492
2000 222 2367
2001 262 2457
2002 213 2320
2003 188 2214
2004 170 2098
2005 145 2102
2006 165 1799
2007 177 2054
2008 170 2191
2009 164 2132

figures brought to you by the following:
www.abs.gov.au

www.AIC.gov.au

edit; there is a discrepancy between ABS and AIC figures hence 2007 figures differ

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Frazzled wrote:
Spacemanvic wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:Meh, who cares what the Canadians do.

Of course this legeslation could result in their criminals coming over here to buy guns

Not legally.

I heard there's a US President just giving them away to criminals.

Thats strictly to the South.

Isnt that Racist?

**A Town Called Malus**

Spacemanvic wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:Indeed, full gun registration caused WW2.

No, it allowed a dictator to take over. Thugs hate when someone fights back. Then he went ahead and started WW2. It's amazing what the idiot masses allow to happen to themselves under the guise of "protection" (Patriot Act for one). Its equally puzzling to expect the police to be there when you really need them.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Hitler was voted into power and then, following the Reichstag fire, was granted emergency powers to remove the "communist insurgent threat".

He did not use force to take over, he was granted absolute power by the people.

**Kaldor**

Spacemanvic wrote:As a person who is still "free" in the United States, Ill man up and take my chances. Having a weapon to protect yourself increases your chances of surviving an altercation by at least 50% if your only armed with a tearful plea of mercy.

If you need a gun to feel safe, you aren't free. You're afraid.

Besides, firearms for home protection are an accident waiting to happen.

**Frazzled**

Kaldor wrote:
Spacemanvic wrote:As a person who is still "free" in the United States, Ill man up and take my chances. Having a weapon to protect yourself increases your chances of surviving an altercation by at least 50% if your only armed with a tearful plea of mercy.

If you need a gun to feel safe, you aren't free. You're afraid.

Besides, firearms for home protection are an accident waiting to happen.

You're wrong on both counts but thats ok. You're surrounded by killer flora and fauna. I've heard even your hamsters are proven mankillers. I'm so jealous!

Frazzled: he's ok with snakes that will drop into your boat and kill. He's ok with gators who will kill you (afterall their relatives). he's ok with sharks and barracuda that will try to eat you. But the scorpions? Feth that bs!!!

**MrMerlin**

SOFDC wrote:
Because accidents happen when some negligent twit leaves his weapon lying around!!

Note the bold part. A gun exploding because of a bad heat treat is an accident. A gun firing because you flipped the selector from "SAFE" to "FIRE" is an accident.

Playing cowboy with the mirror and winding up putting a round through something and claiming "It just went off while I was cleaning it!" is not.
Playing a joke on someone while hunting that ends with "Aw it ain't loaded, see?" *Yanks trigger* is not an accident.
Leaving a firearm out of your immediate control and unsecured where idiots/children/baddies can get at it? That's not an accident, that's an idiot.

Well, then call it stupidity! But still, lots of stupid and irrresponsible people (or their children!) die every day because government thinks its a great idea to allow them to own as many guns as they like. One can clearly see that with stricter control, less people would get shot. I have no problem with responsible and sane people carrying weapons, but someone should really make it harder for every hillibilly to get a gun! You should have to prove that you can handle a weapon responsibly before they give you one!

**Spacemanvic**

Kaldor wrote:
Spacemanvic wrote:As a person who is still "free" in the United States, Ill man up and take my chances. Having a weapon to protect yourself increases your chances of surviving an altercation by at least 50% if your only armed with a tearful plea of mercy.

If you need a gun to feel safe, you aren't free. You're afraid.

Besides, firearms for home protection are an accident waiting to happen.

I aint afraid of a damn thing.

The fearful, want gun control.

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Kaldor wrote:Besides, firearms for home protection are an accident waiting to happen.

You really believe that?!?! Sad, so sad.

**Frazzled**

MrMerlin wrote:
SOFDC wrote:
Because accidents happen when some negligent twit leaves his weapon lying around!!

Note the bold part. A gun exploding because of a bad heat treat is an accident. A gun firing because you flipped the selector from "SAFE" to "FIRE" is an accident.

Playing cowboy with the mirror and winding up putting a round through something and claiming "It just went off while I was cleaning it!" is not.
Playing a joke on someone while hunting that ends with "Aw it ain't loaded, see?" *Yanks trigger* is not an accident.
Leaving a firearm out of your immediate control and unsecured where idiots/children/baddies can get at it? That's not an accident, that's an idiot.

Well, then call it stupidity! But still, lots of stupid and irrresponsible people (or their children!) die every day because government thinks its a great idea to allow them to own as many guns as they like. One can clearly see that with stricter control, less people would get shot. I have no problem with responsible and sane people carrying weapons, but someone should really make it harder for every hillibilly to get a gun! You should have to prove that you can handle a weapon responsibly before they give you one!

There's your fundamental flaw. Its not that the government thinks anything. The government would prefer we didn't have them. Its that the Right of US citizens to have firearms SHALL NOT BE ABRIDGED by the government.

Government is not the font of rights. Those rights are inalienable. Government tries to take those rights and must be restricted so that those freedoms may be passed from generation to generation.

You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to disco. You have the right to wear white in October. You have the right to have a cat, even though cats are wrong. You have the right to eat a one lb burger and follow it with a 30 oz. tub of Dr. Pepper with a whisky chaser. You have the right to cry havoc and let slip the wienerdogs of war...

You know why? Because you're in America Hurr! (or maybe Canada)

**Spacemanvic**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Spacemanvic wrote:
MrDwhitey wrote:Indeed, full gun registration caused WW2.

No, it allowed a dictator to take over. Thugs hate when someone fights back. Then he went ahead and started WW2. It's amazing what the idiot masses allow to happen to themselves under the guise of "protection" (Patriot Act for one). Its equally puzzling to expect the police to be there when you really need them.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Hitler was voted into power and then, following the Reichstag fire, was granted emergency powers to remove the "communist insurgent threat".

He did not use force to take over, he was granted absolute power by the people.

Go back to school, and this time READ a history book or two.

Hitler's Brown Shirts were the thugs he used to get his way.