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2014/05/08 12:51:40
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
nosferatu1001 wrote: Agreed, if you can buy it with points, it is an upgrade. However that is not the only, exclusive definition of upgrade that there is - anthing over and above base vehicle stats can be considered an upgrade.
...
It would be helpful if you'd provide the reasoning that led to your conclusion, or the rule source for your definition.
The one and only "definition" source we've found in this thread is the start of the vehicle upgrades section. That makes clear that upgrades are modifications or additions to vehicles performed by the crew in the field. That logically excludes the gear the generic vehicle has ex-factory aka codex entry.
Which is fluff, not rules. I provided the reasoning, that an upgrade is also anything above base stats, eg tank is an upgrade
That is a claim, a conclusion, not the reasoning on how you arrive at the point or the rules/examples you base yourself on.
If anything, you'd start from the vehicle type as the chassis and then apply things like armour, propulsion and armament from there.
Regardless of how you evaluate the vehicle upgrade intro, the example upgrades make it quite clear that the BRB considers upgrades to match the "fluff intro" exactly.
Considering that it is impossible to get a tank chassis, a 11/11/10 armour or a serpent shield seperately everything that is included in the package deal cannot be an upgrade.
Tbh, I see some value to both sides, so, afaiac, I would look to something similar that has been faqued and use that as a guide.
If you consider Miley Cyrus' enormous testicle, aka orky wrecking ball there may be some common ground.
Miley is a ranged attack (albeit in the assault phase), it has a weapon profile, range, strength (and an ap assigned in the faq) and so is clearly an upgrade that functions as a weapon.
Can she be destroyed as a weapon = no.
If there is something that is closer, then please say so.
Therefore in the absence of a faq, I would default to no.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 13:12:23
You wart-ridden imbeciles!
2014/05/08 20:04:55
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.
2014/05/09 01:43:36
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
If your going to use that bastard of a weapon against me and rules lawyer that it can't be destroyed, I'm not going to play you again. Seriously, get a grip guys. You've already got the most powerful codex, no need for extra icing.
How about this. If you use it (and I know you will), it counts as a weapon until the start of your following turn. And can be destroyed until then.
2014/05/09 02:58:51
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
That is a claim, a conclusion, not the reasoning on how you arrive at the point or the rules/examples you base yourself on.
If anything, you'd start from the vehicle type as the chassis and then apply things like armour, propulsion and armament from there.
If anything? Try not to make this up as you go. If anything a base vehicle has an AV and a movement type, and everything else is, in one way or another, and upgrade depending on the vehicle entry. Your specious retention of 'upgrade' as a term isn't nearly enough to win this argument. Certainly not when it relies on an idea of 'stock' that isn't borne out by the rules at all. And certainly certainly not when the 'stock' Eldar chassis is one that the Serpent shield is most obviously an upgrade to.
Stephanius wrote: Regardless of how you evaluate the vehicle upgrade intro, the example upgrades make it quite clear that the BRB considers upgrades to match the "fluff intro" exactly.
Considering that it is impossible to get a tank chassis, a 11/11/10 armour or a serpent shield seperately everything that is included in the package deal cannot be an upgrade.
Blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah. OK, let me move on to the part where that's not supposed to sound offensive (and it isn't). It was mor ein the way of attention grabbing, since you seem to have missed my last post. The word upgrade isn't used anywhere nearly as uniformly as you need it too in order for your position to actually hold water. The Eldar codex doesn't even have vehicle 'upgrades', it has vehicle wargear. Other codecies have 'upgrades' or not - it isn't a well defined term. And it would have to be in order for you to make the argument your making. To be more specific, you argument fails because it relies on a level of definition of terms that the 40K rules simply don't adhere to (in this instance anyway). Never mind that your position isn't in line with the basic game design (see my previous post).
Cheers
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2014/05/09 03:18:31
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
PapaSoul wrote: But smoke launchers are an upgrade. Or they were to the most recently written codex at that point. UPGRADES are the only thing it applies to. Its kind of in the wording.
I think you should read through the thread first. If you can find an book that allows you to purchase Smoke Launchers then the argument fails. However, no one has provided evidence to that, to the contrary, they have been stock for the vehicles that have them.
IG Hellhound, Taurox, Sentinel. Do not come with Smoke Launchers and can purchase them.
*Tumbleweed*
I noticed this pretty much stopped the "pro destroyed" party in its tracks. I guess this is solved now. Never seen so much clutching at straws :/
The bolded statement is not true any longer, Astra Militarum vehicles only have smoke launchers as default equipment. Does that mean that, as of the AM codex release, this line of logic ceased to affect the rules discussion we're having?
(I'm being kind of a horse's ass here, but it illustrates how inconsistent of a ruleset we have to work with).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/09 03:19:58
2014/05/09 09:30:35
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
So the closest similar vehicle equipment I can find is the monolith portal which says in it's rules specifically that it cannot be destroyed separately. Though this will probably start arguments along the lines of "look at the precedent set by the monolith, this kind of thing can't be destroyed" and "It doesn't say it's immune like the monolith so it must be able to be destroyed". TBH I'm leaning more towards not an option for destroyed these days although it should be from a balance perspective and I can still see an argument for either way.
2014/05/09 09:50:16
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
Naw wrote: Not wanting to start a new thread, I'll add it here:
What is your reasoning for allowing the shield's offensive capability to be twin-linked?
My reasoning is that it is treated as a weapon. And since Treated As=Counts as=Is, it is a weapon.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2014/05/09 11:21:31
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
Fenris-77 wrote: If anything? Try not to make this up as you go. If anything a base vehicle has an AV and a movement type, and everything else is, in one way or another, and upgrade depending on the vehicle entry.
In my opinion, the "upgrade" argument is centred on a vehicle being a simple immobile box. It would have no av and wouldn't even be open-topped until you chop the roof off.
Any change to this box is an upgrade, movement type et al.
Consider the old vehicle design rules, for eg. You start building a vehicle from nothing (except that you know its a vehicle you are building).
Not that it helps, though. In the real world, that makes sense, in rules terms, it doesn't.
What is it that you change when you purchase (that is, pay for or swap) something?
If I change/add to something on a rhino, I have changed a rhino, not a featureless box or a basic space marine vehicle chassis.
If I could change this basic space marine vehicle chassis, I could buy heavy bolter sponsons for the rhino.
Its just as well that can't be done, don't you think?
The upgrade part of the serpent shield simply does not stand, so far, only the weapon designation holds water.
You wart-ridden imbeciles!
2014/05/09 14:20:34
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
Naw wrote: Not wanting to start a new thread, I'll add it here:
What is your reasoning for allowing the shield's offensive capability to be twin-linked?
My reasoning is that it is treated as a weapon. And since Treated As=Counts as=Is, it is a weapon.
So by that logic, it can be destroyed. Either it can't be destroyed and can't be twin linked, or it can be destroyed and twin linked.
And I've said before it could be destroyed. I have no problem with that (other than the ramifications, iow, is the shield itself gone, or just the firing mechanism?). My group, on the other hand does, so it is played as not being able to be destroyed.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2014/05/10 23:23:08
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/10 23:25:07
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara
2014/05/10 23:54:51
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
2014/05/11 01:04:49
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
Not really, the cannon is always a weapon. It is listed as such. The Serpent Shield is not listed anywhere as a weapon.
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara
2014/05/11 01:17:04
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
Except on pg 67 where it tells you that if you deactivate the shield to use it as a weapon that it stays deactivated until the start of its following turn. I read that as it stays as a weapon until its following turn. If it can be a weapon then it can be destroyed like a weapon.
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!)
2014/05/11 01:41:24
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
OIIIIIIO wrote: Except on pg 67 where it tells you that if you deactivate the shield to use it as a weapon that it stays deactivated until the start of its following turn. I read that as it stays as a weapon until its following turn. If it can be a weapon then it can be destroyed like a weapon.
This has zero rules support. Staying deactivated has nothing to do with a Weapon Destroyed result. I quote again:
"In its shooting phase...(threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
Where does it say it is treated as a weapon at any time other than its own shooting phase?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/11 01:42:58
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara
2014/05/11 01:50:01
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
MarsNZ wrote: How can you be so by the letter with that rule but ignore
This can include vehicle upgrades that function as weapons
Keep clutching. I mean, it's not like your FOTM codex still dominates 6 months later.
Because by the letter, the shield is not an upgrade....it is not an optional purchase, and is not available on any other model...this has already been covered. Did you even read the thread?
Also, try not to get your panties in a wad, its just the internet, after all.
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara
2014/05/11 02:05:48
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
Not really, the cannon is always a weapon. It is listed as such. The Serpent Shield is not listed anywhere as a weapon.
Except where it says it is a weapon, in its rules. You know, the one you yourself said
extremefreak17 wrote: This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon
2014/05/11 02:21:27
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
Not really, the cannon is always a weapon. It is listed as such. The Serpent Shield is not listed anywhere as a weapon.
Except where it says it is a weapon, in its rules. You know, the one you yourself said
extremefreak17 wrote: This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon
"In its shooting phase..." This is the only time we are given permission to treat it as a weapon. If it did not have those first four words, it would be a different story, but looks like a clear restriction to me.
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara
2014/05/11 03:51:14
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
Because by the letter, the shield is not an upgrade....it is not an optional purchase, and is not available on any other model...this has already been covered.
I don't think it has been covered though. YMDC seems to so often revert immediately to a grammar exercise and that's not always the right tool for the job. The dictionary definition of upgrade doesn't matter in the least here, what matters is how the word or rule is used in the game.
Some of the newer books don't use the phrase upgrade at all (like the Eldar 'dex), they just have vehicle equipment. Where that phrase is used is in the main rules, and in codexes that refer to the vehicle equipment in those rules (some of them anyway. In the new Guard Codex thet items from that upgrade list in the main rules are actually referred to simply as vehicle equipment where they are included in the Astra Militarum Vehicle Equipment list - no mention of the word upgrade at all.. On the other hand the Tempestus Codex goes back to referring to the 'upgrades' from the main book and the new stuff. Anyway, the point is that the word 'upgrade' isn't used to identify vehicle equipment purchased, shall we say, after market, but rather to identify the basic list of vehicle equipment listed in the main rules. In none of the codexes is there any kind of differentiation made between vehicle equipment that could be purchased, and equipment that only came contained in the point cost of specific vehicles - it's all simply listed as vehicle equipment.
The word 'upgrade' simply isn't used by GW in a consistent or rigorous enough way to be the lynch-pin of this argument.
The "in it's shooting phase" argument for the "burst of energy" not being a weapon is a complete non-starter. All that rule really says is "when you're allowed to shoot, you can shoot it with the following rules..." and it's written in pretty standard GW language. There's nothing there to suggest that's some kind of crazy unique rule that turns into a disappearing-reappearing weapon. That's what people are getting at with the cracks about Leman Russ barrels - it's the nature of GWs rules to tell you what the rules are for things according to when they can be used, and to say that something may be treated like a weapon in the shooting phase isn't the same as saying it may not be treated like a weapon in any other phase. I know there's going to me a mini-avalanche of people getting up their high horse about permissive rules systems after what I just wrote, but I really don't think this is the place for that particular argument, not when the Weapon Destroyed rules take that very language into account.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/11 03:52:11
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2014/05/11 04:18:22
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
OIIIIIIO wrote: Except on pg 67 where it tells you that if you deactivate the shield to use it as a weapon that it stays deactivated until the start of its following turn. I read that as it stays as a weapon until its following turn. If it can be a weapon then it can be destroyed like a weapon.
This has zero rules support. Staying deactivated has nothing to do with a Weapon Destroyed result. I quote again:
"In its shooting phase...(threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
Where does it say it is treated as a weapon at any time other than its own shooting phase?
Where does it say Weapon Destroyed only works if the wargear is currently functioning as a weapon?
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/05/11 05:12:39
Subject: Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
"In its Shooting phase"? There we have it, you can't shoot with it at all. Players have Shooting phases, not Wave Serpent
These arguments _always_ center around the wording, as Fenris wrote. Different authors, lazy editing, not adhering to previous syntax. On top of that the failure to address these issues later with FAQ's.
For me this is clear, based on the fact that it can be used as a weapon -> the shield is destructable until "its next Shooting phase".
2014/05/12 09:42:49
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
Not really, the cannon is always a weapon. It is listed as such. The Serpent Shield is not listed anywhere as a weapon.
Except where it says it is a weapon, in its rules. You know, the one you yourself said
extremefreak17 wrote: This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon
"In its shooting phase..." This is the only time we are given permission to treat it as a weapon. If it did not have those first four words, it would be a different story, but looks like a clear restriction to me.
You would be hard pressed to find ANY weapon that functions in any phase other than the shooting phase.
2014/05/12 09:50:32
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
Not really, the cannon is always a weapon. It is listed as such. The Serpent Shield is not listed anywhere as a weapon.
Except where it says it is a weapon, in its rules. You know, the one you yourself said
extremefreak17 wrote: This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon
"In its shooting phase..." This is the only time we are given permission to treat it as a weapon. If it did not have those first four words, it would be a different story, but looks like a clear restriction to me.
You would be hard pressed to find ANY weapon that functions in any phase other than the shooting phase.
Overwatch........
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2014/05/12 09:59:41
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
Not really, the cannon is always a weapon. It is listed as such. The Serpent Shield is not listed anywhere as a weapon.
Except where it says it is a weapon, in its rules. You know, the one you yourself said
extremefreak17 wrote: This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon
"In its shooting phase..." This is the only time we are given permission to treat it as a weapon. If it did not have those first four words, it would be a different story, but looks like a clear restriction to me.
You would be hard pressed to find ANY weapon that functions in any phase other than the shooting phase.
Overwatch........
Pg 21 says that overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack. Crazy how that works.
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!)
2014/05/12 10:04:14
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
extremefreak17 wrote: So, I'm going to bring this up because I dont think it has been noted yet.
From the Eldar Codex:
"In its shooting phase, the wave serpent can deactivate its shields to shoot a burst of energy with the following profile (threat this as a hull-mounted weapon pointing forward):"
This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon, but only durring the Wave Serpent's shooting phase. We are never given permission to treat the Shield as a weapon durring our opponent's shooting phase, and therefore I don't think it can be destroyed by enemy fire.
By this logic you could still theoretically destroy it, but it would have to be a bad scatter from one of your own blast weapons, or something similar.
EDIT: spelling and such
I mean, my Leman Russ's battlecannon is only a weapon during its shooting phase, otherwise it is a useless tube hanging off of the tank.
Not really, the cannon is always a weapon. It is listed as such. The Serpent Shield is not listed anywhere as a weapon.
Except where it says it is a weapon, in its rules. You know, the one you yourself said
extremefreak17 wrote: This clearly gives us permission to treat the Shield as a weapon
"In its shooting phase..." This is the only time we are given permission to treat it as a weapon. If it did not have those first four words, it would be a different story, but looks like a clear restriction to me.
You would be hard pressed to find ANY weapon that functions in any phase other than the shooting phase.
Overwatch........
And other than Walkers and Longstrike's Hammerhead, what vehicle can fire Overwatch?
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2014/05/12 10:22:52
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
I've never double-scored on two completely irrelevant replies before, I think I'll reward myself with a cup of tea and a hobnob
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2014/05/12 12:36:25
Subject: Re:Can Serpent Shields be destroyed with Weapon Destroyed results?
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara 
5000 
