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Which ruleset will you continue the Horus Heresy with? The long wait 'till the Thin Red Rulebook..  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Yodhrin wrote:
I do kinda love the whole "30K is dead if it doesn't go 8th!" thing especially if it's coming from folk who hopped on board with the plastic kits or folk who almost always played 30K armies against 40K opponents(ie, they didn't actually play 30K, they played 40K with a FW army list).

30K will do just fine - it did fine before FW actually made the HH rules, it did fine before GW bothered to produce plastics, and it will continue to do fine until FW eventually decide whether to shift to 8th-based rules or stick with their own 7th-based system. A lot of individuals who bought-in to Heresy as a subset of 40K rather than its own thing will end up screwed over, and obviously that sucks, but Heresy gaming overall isn't going anywhere.

So you think it's a good idea to restrict the size of the player base?

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Changing Our Legion's Name




 DarknessEternal wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I do kinda love the whole "30K is dead if it doesn't go 8th!" thing especially if it's coming from folk who hopped on board with the plastic kits or folk who almost always played 30K armies against 40K opponents(ie, they didn't actually play 30K, they played 40K with a FW army list).

30K will do just fine - it did fine before FW actually made the HH rules, it did fine before GW bothered to produce plastics, and it will continue to do fine until FW eventually decide whether to shift to 8th-based rules or stick with their own 7th-based system. A lot of individuals who bought-in to Heresy as a subset of 40K rather than its own thing will end up screwed over, and obviously that sucks, but Heresy gaming overall isn't going anywhere.

So you think it's a good idea to restrict the size of the player base?


It's not exactly restrictive, there are plenty of us that have learned multiple editions of games or rules for multiple games at the same time. I'm sure people can grasp being able to play 7.5 HH and also still play games of 40k 8th (with the same models at least if not the same army list). You can never truely make everyone happy, and I get that some people (who knows truely how many) might have been the only HH player in their area and had only play 40k players to play against. That's fine but it's also not what 30k was meant for.

It was always meant to only be a game of 30kvs30k. Sure you could make it work ok with 40k armies (I have), but it's always been intended as it's own games system in a way, outside of the 40k mainstream (no formations, reliance on Force Org Charts, numerous 40k factions not existing in 30k, completely different and incompatible ally charts, etc...). If your 40k mates are supportive I'm sure they'll find a way for you to still play your 30k army with them (house rules), if not, you'll have to stick to 30k opponents or just fight your 40k friends with you own models but using one of the numerous flavors of marine that exist in 40k. This is far from a death knell for 30k lol, if anything it will lead to it being more what it should be it's own discreet game from 40k.

“Victory is not an abstract concept, it is the equation that sits at the heart of strategy. Victory is the will to expend lives and munitions in attack, overmatching the defenders’reserves of manpower and ordnance. As long as my Iron Warriors are willing to pay any price in pursuit of victory, we shall never be defeated.” - The Primarch Perturabo, Master of the Iron Warriors 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Except it wasn't created as a different game. It was the same game with different armies and missions. A different game wouldn't have been built on all the same rules.

How many people got into it because it was still 40k? A non-zero number. And making it not 40k now is lying to those people

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch




All of this pro 8th crap get me keep 30k complex and in 7th just fix the psychic stuff and it's all good

2000 ? (Need book) now with Reaver Titan guard ?(need book)
2500 (imperial force)
2500 (trimming down in 8th)

Now working on TS 30k at 5k points
Yes I have a problem
 
   
Made in us
Changing Our Legion's Name




 DarknessEternal wrote:
Except it wasn't created as a different game. It was the same game with different armies and missions. A different game wouldn't have been built on all the same rules.

How many people got into it because it was still 40k? A non-zero number. And making it not 40k now is lying to those people


Except it was a different game because you weren't supposed to use 30k armies with 40k armies. You could because they used the same base rules set, but just like old school kill team, it was a discreet game on its own.

I got into it because I could play Iron Warriors how I wanted to finally. The fact that it used the core rulebook had nothing to do with it. And the more time moved on the more differences between 30k and 40k became apparent as I outlined above. The fact that they both used 40k core rules made it easy to transfer over, and for some to try and use both 30k and 40k together, but that wasn't the intent. HH is a historical version of 40k, and now it's just becoming more discreet than ever. I think that's a good thing honestly. And like I said before it's not keeping anyone from using their models as 40k marines or Csm so they can get games every so often. And if you have a good group of people perhaps even you could all work together to houserule 30k 8th edition rules. But I don't think that this is going to overly restrict people. It will simply require adjustment.

“Victory is not an abstract concept, it is the equation that sits at the heart of strategy. Victory is the will to expend lives and munitions in attack, overmatching the defenders’reserves of manpower and ordnance. As long as my Iron Warriors are willing to pay any price in pursuit of victory, we shall never be defeated.” - The Primarch Perturabo, Master of the Iron Warriors 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 DarknessEternal wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I do kinda love the whole "30K is dead if it doesn't go 8th!" thing especially if it's coming from folk who hopped on board with the plastic kits or folk who almost always played 30K armies against 40K opponents(ie, they didn't actually play 30K, they played 40K with a FW army list).

30K will do just fine - it did fine before FW actually made the HH rules, it did fine before GW bothered to produce plastics, and it will continue to do fine until FW eventually decide whether to shift to 8th-based rules or stick with their own 7th-based system. A lot of individuals who bought-in to Heresy as a subset of 40K rather than its own thing will end up screwed over, and obviously that sucks, but Heresy gaming overall isn't going anywhere.

So you think it's a good idea to restrict the size of the player base?


Well... given how its restricted the player base in my local community, yeah I'm fine with it. While I like 8th edition, the tournament I played recently reminded me why I was glad to not play against most of the folks who play 40K here, but won't bother with 30K. On the first day of release, we were seeing armies that had 5 different factions in them, because people were trying to build the cheesiest crap they could come up with.

Yeah, if it means my 30K games aren't going to involve those players, then I'm perfectly happy with the "restricted player base".

1st Legion Dark Angles

Eldar Craftworld Eth-Kariel
Spear of Kornous - High Elf Expeditionary Army (Retired)
B Company 502nd PIR 101st Airborne Division - Flames of War 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 djones520 wrote:
On the first day of release, we were seeing armies that had 5 different factions in them, because people were trying to build the cheesiest crap they could come up with.

Tell them to play with the rules then? All armies must share a faction.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch




 DarknessEternal wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
On the first day of release, we were seeing armies that had 5 different factions in them, because people were trying to build the cheesiest crap they could come up with.

Tell them to play with the rules then? All armies must share a faction.


Well you can get more then 5 in a imp key list 2(soon 3) in a chaos list and 3(4 or 5?) in a eldar list
My thing is I hate how simple 8th is on many things and I like scatter

2000 ? (Need book) now with Reaver Titan guard ?(need book)
2500 (imperial force)
2500 (trimming down in 8th)

Now working on TS 30k at 5k points
Yes I have a problem
 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission




 DarknessEternal wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
On the first day of release, we were seeing armies that had 5 different factions in them, because people were trying to build the cheesiest crap they could come up with.

Tell them to play with the rules then? All armies must share a faction.


For the record, most of those super multi-faction armies aren't super great. Pretty much Guard conscripts, psykers, and knights are the only things that really work well outside their faction.




2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut





 DarknessEternal wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
On the first day of release, we were seeing armies that had 5 different factions in them, because people were trying to build the cheesiest crap they could come up with.

Tell them to play with the rules then? All armies must share a faction.


Which is really issue only for tau, orks and necrons.

”Buddhism doesn't tell you what is false and what is true but it encourages you to find out for yourself.” ~ Chogyam Trungpa ~ 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





I'll be using whatever the current edition of the rulebook is. If at the end of the day my local group decide they want to stick with 7.5 after it moves on, I'll do so and just play the "new" rules when I venture out.
   
 
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