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Yea, 10 wulfen in pod or rhino kinda ridiculous. I just want to make sure lol. Even im playing with 10 wulfen squad with 4 shield, they melt everything and my enemy spend the whole shooting phase on them.
Btw Arjac is a badass

Skyclaws
UNIT COMPOSITION: 5-10+1 Models (4-9 Skyclaws, 1 Skyclaw Pack Leader and may add a Wolf Guard Sky Leader)
WARGEAR: Powered Armor: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades, Jump Pack


Options:
>Up to two models may replace their Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol or a Space Wolf Special Weapon.

>The Skyclaw Pack Leader may replace their Chainsword with a weapon from the Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon list

>The Wolf Guard Sky Leader may replace their Chainsword with a weapon from the Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon list and/or Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol or a Space Wolf Combi-Weapon.

Special Abilities:
>ATSKNF

>Jump Pack Assault: May start in Reserves and Deep Strike and has the Fly Keyword.

>Berserk Charge: +1 Attack on the Charge

>Headstrong: If not near a Wolf Guard they must try to Charge and yes the Wolf Guard Sky Leader Counts.

Overview/How I would use Them: While not as good as the Powered Armored Wolf Guard with Jump Lacks they can be good themselves. They would also mix well with Powered Armored Wolf Guard with Jump Packs as they are Wolf Guard and can keep the Headstrong under check.

>Pure Assault Force: Take either the Pair of Plasma Pistols or either a Melta-Gun or Flamer. Give the Skyclaw Pack Leader a Power/Frost Weapon. The Wolf Guard Sky Leader should take the same with the addition of either a Plasma Pistol or Combi-Flamer/Combi-Melta. I would tend to go with the Plasma Pistol.

>Hit and Run: Go with the Plasma Guns/Combi-Plasma and Disengage a lot. Remember you have the Fly Rule. Just fall back 10” and Fire during the Shooting Phase and most likely Overwatch when they charge you.

Falling Back Units starting the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or Fall Back. If you choose to Fall Back, the unit must end its move more than 1" away from all enemy units. If a unit Falls Back, it cannot Advance, or charge later that turn. A unit that Falls Back also cannot shoot later that turn unless it can Fly.

>Wolf Priest: Something I just noticed...Wolf Priest do no have the Wolf Guard Keyword...So it is another reason to take a Wolf Guard Battle Leader.

>Headstrong: If not near a Wolf Guard they must try to Charge and yes the Wolf Guard Sky Leader Counts.

why?
it does not have the Wolf Guard Keyword

 kodos wrote:

>Headstrong: If not near a Wolf Guard they must try to Charge and yes the Wolf Guard Sky Leader Counts.

why?
it does not have the Wolf Guard Keyword

Just the name Wolf Guard Sky Leader.... if he was just called a Sky Leader or Pack Leader you would have a point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to quote thr rule in full....


HEADSTRONG - Unless this unit contains a wolfguard sky leader or is within 6" of a friendly wolf guard, it must declare a charge etc etc.

Pretty clear really.

Yeah Pretty Clear, Wolf Guard in the Headstrong rule is a keyword (thats why it is bolt) and the unit regardless of its name need the keyword to count (thats why we have the keywords in the first place)

the same reason why a unit with Terminator WGPL could use a Rhino, it was missing the Terminator keyword (the name alone does not count) before the FAQ added it.
As long as no Errata adds the Wolf Guard keyword to the Wolf Guard Pack Leader.

So RAW it is 100% clear, the WG Pack Leader does not count for the Headstrong rule

and the reason why he is not just called Pack Leader, because there is already another model for every unit that is a simple Pack Leader.

I wouldnt have run a WGPL in termie armour in a rhino, as every man and his dog know that. Regardless of keywords!

As for the rules, its a bit messed up so far. As we have so much customisation in our units, they really should have thought on before putting evertyhing down...

As for the pack leader thing, i was being sarcastic. Doesnt come across in text.

The Headstrong rule is pretty clear. Either the squad has to have a Wolf Guard Pack Leader in it, or it has to be within 6" of something with the Wolf Guard keyword.

The Wolf Guard Pack Leaders do no have the Wolf Guard keyword, so they don't effect other squads, just their own.

Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword, however, and do count for the headstrong rule.

with the last FAQ it is impossible to say what is really intended and what is a mistake
I would have never thought about using stuff instead of shooting if the unit is not allowed to shoot in the first place
the FAQ say it is and therefore, if GW would have not added the Terminator keyword, I would have believed that it is intended

Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword,

no, WGPL don't have the keyword

I was surprised by how little I cared about the Headstrong rule in my last game.
There were very few turns where I didn't have every intention of charging anyway.

 kodos wrote:
with the last FAQ it is impossible to say what is really intended and what is a mistake
I would have never thought about using stuff instead of shooting if the unit is not allowed to shoot in the first place
the FAQ say it is and therefore, if GW would have not added the Terminator keyword, I would have believed that it is intended

Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword,

no, WGPL don't have the keyword

The Wolf Guard Pack Leader does not need the Keyword.

Blood Claws
Headstrong: Unless the unit contains a Wolf Guard Pack Leader or Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor or is within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard, it must declare a charge if possible to do so.

Skyclaws
Headstrong: Unless the unit contains a Skyclaw Pack Leader or is within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard, it must declare a charge if possible to do so.

Swiftclaws
Headstrong: Unless the unit contains a Wolf Guard Bike Leader or is within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard, it must declare a charge if possible to do so.

 kodos wrote:
with the last FAQ it is impossible to say what is really intended and what is a mistake
I would have never thought about using stuff instead of shooting if the unit is not allowed to shoot in the first place
the FAQ say it is and therefore, if GW would have not added the Terminator keyword, I would have believed that it is intended

Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, Wolf Guard in power armor/terminator armor/bikes, Canis Wolfborn, and Arjac Rockfist do all have the Wolf Guard keyword,

no, WGPL don't have the keyword

You'll notice that's why i left them out of that list.

I agree you don't care much about having to charge, especially of you aren't footslogging. However, unless you are taking 5 man squads or 3 man bikes, you'll almost never have a reason not to take the pack leader in order to get a combi-weapon and/or melee weapon on him.

That's fair point too.

 Anpu42 wrote:

The Wolf Guard Pack Leader does not need the Keyword.

ok, my Index only mention Wolf Guard and not the Pack Leaders for the rule.
(was there something in the FAQ or are the different language version missing stuff?)

jcd386 wrote:

You'll notice that's why i left them out of that list.

Sorry, misread your post (Battle leader and Pack leader, I should not write so late at night)

Lone Wolves
UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR:
>Lone Wolf in Power Armor (6”, 3+, T4, W3): Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades.

>Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor (5”, 2+/5++, T4, W4): Power Sword and Storm Bolter



Options:
Lone Wolf in Power Armor:
>May Replace his Chainsword with one weapon from the Space Wolf Mêlée Weapon List
>May Replace his Bolt Pistol with a Storm Shield (3++), Plasma Pistol or an item on the Space Wolf Combi-Weapon List

Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor: Power Sword and Storm Bolter
>May Replace his Power Sword with any Weapon on the Space Wolf Terminator Mêlée List
>May Replace his Storm Bolter with a Storm Shield (3++) or an item on the Space Wolf Combi-Weapon List.

Special Abilities:
>A Glorious Death...: Feel No Pain on a 4+ when you take your final wound. Basically then if you die in a Mêlée you get one more set of attacks against the Target that killed you.

>...Worthy of a Saga: Re-Roll Failed 1s to Wound during the Fight Phase vs Characters and/or Monsters.

>Army of one: Can never be the Warlord.

>Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor: Teleport Strike


How I would use them: Nostalgia Time, I miss just taking a pair of Lone Wolves with his Chainsword, Storm Shield, Mark of the Wulfen and two Furry Meat Shields. 1D6+1 Rending Attacks made him a beast. My other one was in Terminator Armor with a Wolf Claws and a Chain Fist. It is a shame that they can not take a second Wolf Claw.

>Lone Wolf in Power Armor: I would go with my old stand by, a Storm Shield and a Frost Sword. That keeps them simple and strait forward. A Frost Axe or Thunder Hammer could also work out well. I would use a Wulfen Pack as the Bodyguard to give them the Re-Roll on the Charge or the Extra Attack. You can also shove them in any transport with an open slot if you have one to get them across the board. One Lone Wolf with 9 Power Armored Wolf Wolf Guard would work good.

>Lone Wolf in Terminator Armor:...I am not sure completely as now my old option is not viable. Take a Storm Shield, they are cheep and for the most part you want the Lone Wolf in Mêlée as much as possible. Most Weapon Choices are good, but I think the Thunder Hammer and Chain Fist are most likely the best choices as they will still be hitting on a 3+. Teleport him in with a Wolf Guard Terminator Pack for some extra Punch.

 kodos wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

The Wolf Guard Pack Leader does not need the Keyword.

ok, my Index only mention Wolf Guard and not the Pack Leaders for the rule.
(was there something in the FAQ or are the different language version missing stuff?)

Print vs Digital index differ here, even in English. The digital copy includes the WGPL and the print index left it out.

I'd go with the Digital as correct.

Ulfhednar_42 wrote:

Print vs Digital index differ here, even in English. The digital copy includes the WGPL and the print index left it out.
I'd go with the Digital as correct.

ok, than to everyone here, please accept my apologies for making troubles, I was wrong

My english printed version mentions WGPL in every variant of Blood Claws (Blood, Sky and Swift Claws) under the Headstrong rule.

I quite like the idea of multiple TDA Lone Wolves and a pack of Wulfen. Run the Wulfen up to the enemy on T1 and teleport the Lone Wolves 9" away. With several models attempting to charge and all getting a reroll, you have good odds that a couple of them will make contact with the enemy.

 Weazel wrote:
My english printed version mentions WGPL in every variant of Blood Claws (Blood, Sky and Swift Claws) under the Headstrong rule.

PEBKAC on my part I was looking at the ATTACK bike. Which doesn't have the leader option.

The only problem with Lone Wolves is the cost.
75 points without TDA
115 with it, plus the Powersword and Storm Bolter, lads, that's a big investment.

Yeah, lone wolves seem somewhat forgettable, unfortunately.

I feel like you almost always might as well take a tooled out WGBL or Wolf Lord instead and get the sweet re-roll auras and very similar stats.

jcd386 wrote:
Yeah, lone wolves seem somewhat forgettable, unfortunately.

I feel like you almost always might as well take a tooled out WGBL or Wolf Lord instead and get the sweet re-roll auras and very similar stats.

Overpriced is the word I'd used.
It's been overpriced because it's a smallish easily placed single model unit with a personal deployment system. It's very versatile, it's just not 121 points versatile.

Murderfang
UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Model
WARGEAR:
>Storm Bolter: (24” Rapid Fire 2, Hit on 3+, S4, AP-, Damage 1)
>Heavy Flamer: (8” Heavy 1d6, S5, AP-1, Damage 1, Always Hits)
>The Murderclaws (Mêlée 5, Hit on a 2+, S12, AP-3, Damage 3, Re-Roll Failed to Wound Rolls)


Options: None

Special Abilities:
>Murderlust: Re-Roll Failed Charges






Overview/How I would use Him: Well there is not much to say about his that his name does not tell you. He is sort of a Lone Wolf in Dreadnaught form...and I kind of wish they built him that way…He is tough, but does not have an Invulnerable save which I think is his one true weakness, but he is a character.
>Mêlée: With is hitting on a 2+ and Re-Rolls of failed Wounds he will be inflicting a lot of wounds very quickly and if you can get a Wolf Priest or Wolf Lord near him he will be Re-Rolling to hits also. With his 5 S12, Damage 3 Attacks he can quickly tear into any Monster or Vehicle possibility inflicting 15 Wounds.
>Shooting: He has the potential to put out 4+1d6 Shots before he gets to plow into a unit giving him a potential to kill 9+1d6 Models.


>Blood Claws: These would make a good Bodyguard for him, just for the large number you can field.

>Grey Hunters: Only if you are going for the more Close Combat version of them. Though tossing him into the middle of a Rhino Rush to deal with anything that Assaults the Rhinos.

Wolf Guard: Another good choice as a Counter Charge Unit (Counter Charge Units do have to be in just your backfield.

>Thunderwolves: Make your opponent sweat it out as the Pack of Thunderwolves charge them knowing that in a few moments a Half...mostly crazed Dreadnaught is behind them. Murderfang will have to advance to keep up, but this combo is not going to be doing a lot of shooting anyways.

>Herald Deathwolf and a bunch of Wolves: Here is another good mix that is fast. Murderfang will have to advance to keep up, but this combo is not going to be doing a lot of shooting anyways.

>Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf: You might want to keep one close to heal him up as after the first time he impacts and kills 5 models Murderfang will become a Bullet Magnet.

>Other Dreads: If you are fielding a Heavy Dreadnaught force, especially with the Axe/Board Dreads along with Bjorn what is one more in the mix.

Overall I think he can make a great alternative to your normal Dreadnaught Force.

Late last edition Murderfang was an absolute workhorse for me.
190 points when put in a Lucius Pod - Murderfang demanded attention, he had six attacks base, d3 extra attacks on the charge and d3 extra attacks for being outnumbered, the only things that could tangle with him and expect to win were the MCs that nobody was taking.
Mass murderer, vehicle buster and badass.
This edition - Murderfang is more expensive and less murder than he was, delivery is more expensive and that Heavy Flamer attention getter is out of range on entry.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


...the only things that could tangle with him and expect to win were the MCs that nobody was taking.

Like what? 7th edition was dominated by MCs. Armies that could have them always abused the spam of MCs.

 Blackie wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


...the only things that could tangle with him and expect to win were the MCs that nobody was taking.

Like what? 7th edition was dominated by MCs. Armies that could have them always abused the spam of MCs.

Most of the MCs being taken were low initiative, shootie beasties.
I happily murdered Wraithknights and Riptides with Murderfang.
Daemon Princes were where Murderfang fell short.

Also tyranids beasts and dark eldar talos were effective against murdefang. Both pretty common if not mandatory if you played those armies.

Yeah tau big robots were (and still are) crappy in close combat but it's wasn't that easy to assault them with a dread, they were shielded by drones, warriors, pathfinders or terrain and had a long range movement. Not to mention than tau could wreck the pod and then the dread with their average shooting.

I've never achieved anything with murderfang, or any other dread, in 7th edition, but I haven't tried the Lucius pod as in my group FW is basically banned

I prefer SW dreads in this edition, footslogging, and safe from normal shooting. They're just too expensive for what they do, though.

Actually, I never faced Dark Eldar late in seventh.
That was a big disappointment since I got absolutely scalped by them in one of my first tournaments back in 2014.
Nids on the other hand I never had much trouble with - luck was on my side or just really against the Nid player in shooting down Flyrants.

In 6th and 7th that was laughable, some of the things GW was giving Tau and CW Eldar...most Forgeworld stuff was pretty humble in comparison.
In actual use against Eldar and Tau the Lucius Pod delivery service was stupidly good, my favourite memory is still putting a pod down beside those jump when you target them for shooting...Striking Scorpions? I'm strugglng to remember their name and aiming three Heavy Flamer templates at a vehicle behind them "Oh, your jumpy dudes got caught in the crossfire? Oh, oops."

 Dakka Wolf wrote:


In actual use against Eldar and Tau the Lucius Pod delivery service was stupidly good, my favourite memory is still putting a pod down beside those jump when you target them for shooting...Striking Scorpions? I'm strugglng to remember their name and aiming three Heavy Flamer templates at a vehicle behind them "Oh, your jumpy dudes got caught in the crossfire? Oh, oops."

They're Warp Spiders, the most annoying unit in the history of 40k

just play 2 games got destroyed by tau and primaris. any suggestion against shooty army?
i play with
Arjac
5 termies (2shield/th,1assault cannon, 1 wolf claws, 1 combi melta chain fist)
5 wulfen ( 2th/ss 2 axe and 1 leader)
rhino carrying:
Ragnar
rune priest
5 melta long fang


turn 2 most of my army gone, 2 termies, 2 wulfen, ragnar and all long fangs left