Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Bosskelot wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the "HH will never be popular because theres no faction diversity in the game" will be in for a rude awakening. I very much doubt theres any faction purist edgelords out there that will go "ew, I'm a member of the xenos player master race, I will never touch an Imperial faction, loyalist or otherwise". At the end of the day, most miniatures sales are driven by aesthetics of the minis, and I'm sure GW has some really sweet plastic kits in the works for some of the current (and pending future?) factions that are going to suck a lot of people right in.

And if you still don't like Marines that won't change anything.

well no, the "I hate Marines Hipsters" proably won't like Horus Heresy....... hell it amazes me they like 40k!

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the "HH will never be popular because theres no faction diversity in the game" will be in for a rude awakening. I very much doubt theres any faction purist edgelords out there that will go "ew, I'm a member of the xenos player master race, I will never touch an Imperial faction, loyalist or otherwise". At the end of the day, most miniatures sales are driven by aesthetics of the minis, and I'm sure GW has some really sweet plastic kits in the works for some of the current (and pending future?) factions that are going to suck a lot of people right in.

And if you still don't like Marines that won't change anything.

well no, the "I hate Marines Hipsters" proably won't like Horus Heresy....... hell it amazes me they like 40k!

Some of them less and less so. Heck, I know sworn Marine enthusiasts who are tired of playing PA on PA in 70-80% of their 40k games and can’t be bothered by yet another SM release. Some people do like real variety in their games, you know.

nou wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the "HH will never be popular because theres no faction diversity in the game" will be in for a rude awakening. I very much doubt theres any faction purist edgelords out there that will go "ew, I'm a member of the xenos player master race, I will never touch an Imperial faction, loyalist or otherwise". At the end of the day, most miniatures sales are driven by aesthetics of the minis, and I'm sure GW has some really sweet plastic kits in the works for some of the current (and pending future?) factions that are going to suck a lot of people right in.

And if you still don't like Marines that won't change anything.

well no, the "I hate Marines Hipsters" proably won't like Horus Heresy....... hell it amazes me they like 40k!

Some of them less and less so. Heck, I know sworn Marine enthusiasts who are tired of playing PA on PA in 70-80% of their 40k games and can’t be bothered by yet another SM release. Some people do like real variety in their games, you know.

Indeed. I like Space Marines; my only real beef with them is that I don't want them to be the be-all and end-all of 40K, so I've no interest in getting into a game where they're even more ubiquitous than they are in that.

 Blackie wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
At the end of the day, most miniatures sales are driven by aesthetics of the minis, and I'm sure GW has some really sweet plastic kits in the works for some of the current (and pending future?) factions that are going to suck a lot of people right in.

Also this. I think HH marines look godawful and with no real differentiation between the factions. My firstborn SW can have 40ish different heads from the regular infantry kit, the upgrade pack, thunderwolves and terminators. All compatible. Same with shoulder pads and other dedicated bits. Even the weapons look wolfy. In HH all factions look the same, just painted in a different colour. Like the primaris range, which I despise aesthetically.

Ooooookay. Let's try it - a handful of pictures off the 30k reddit top posts today - I won't even pick painted ones.









You're absolutely entitled to dislike horus heresy models, everybody has their own tastes. But there's a ton of head kits from forgeworld and another round for all in the process of releasing, with AMPLE scope to differentiate HH marines - including using bits from 40k kits too if you want. So no - they don't "all look the same" unless you put zero effort in, and that applies to ANY army.

To answer the thread's question : No.

Because people like the variety of races and factions in 40K.

Selfcontrol wrote:
To answer the thread's question : No.

Because people like the variety of races and factions in 40K.

People say this, but like 60-70% of the player base plays Space Marines I would reckon.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
To answer the thread's question : No.

Because people like the variety of races and factions in 40K.

People say this, but like 60-70% of the player base plays Space Marines I would reckon.

IIRC, according to the last survey about 60% OWN at least some SM, that is not the same as playing SM. And even if 60% playing is true, then it also means, that 40% don't, so by the power of the simple math, HH will always be short some % of those players when compared to 40k. So the answer to OP is undisputably "no".

nou wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
To answer the thread's question : No.

Because people like the variety of races and factions in 40K.

People say this, but like 60-70% of the player base plays Space Marines I would reckon.

IIRC, according to the last survey about 60% OWN at least some SM, that is not the same as playing SM. And even if 60% playing is true, then it also means, that 40% don't, so by the power of the simple math, HH will always be short some % of those players when compared to 40k. So the answer to OP is undisputably "no".

But HH is <60% Space Marines. Like I get it has fewer factions than 40k, but there's only 1 (or 2, if you split traitors off which imo is a mistake since they share army lists) faction(s) of Space Marines, out of like, 5 (6) major factions. I even went over the numbers in this thread.......... so Space Marines make up 20-33% of the total number of factions.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

nou wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
To answer the thread's question : No.

Because people like the variety of races and factions in 40K.

People say this, but like 60-70% of the player base plays Space Marines I would reckon.

IIRC, according to the last survey about 60% OWN at least some SM, that is not the same as playing SM. And even if 60% playing is true, then it also means, that 40% don't, so by the power of the simple math, HH will always be short some % of those players when compared to 40k. So the answer to OP is undisputably "no".

But HH is <60% Space Marines. Like I get it has fewer factions than 40k, but there's only 1 (or 2, if you split traitors off which imo is a mistake since they share army lists) faction(s) of Space Marines, out of like, 5 (6) major factions. I even went over the numbers in this thread.......... so Space Marines make up 20-33% of the total number of factions.

Mathematically correct, but fundamentally wrong.

The HH is all about Space Marines in practice. Which is fair, giving what it is about.

Bringing up the mere existence of other factions in 30k is utterly pointless without some hard data on play rates, especially when one of the factions is all but guaranteed to make up the overwhelming majority (if not near totality) of played armies.

Selfcontrol wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

nou wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
To answer the thread's question : No.

Because people like the variety of races and factions in 40K.

People say this, but like 60-70% of the player base plays Space Marines I would reckon.

IIRC, according to the last survey about 60% OWN at least some SM, that is not the same as playing SM. And even if 60% playing is true, then it also means, that 40% don't, so by the power of the simple math, HH will always be short some % of those players when compared to 40k. So the answer to OP is undisputably "no".

But HH is <60% Space Marines. Like I get it has fewer factions than 40k, but there's only 1 (or 2, if you split traitors off which imo is a mistake since they share army lists) faction(s) of Space Marines, out of like, 5 (6) major factions. I even went over the numbers in this thread.......... so Space Marines make up 20-33% of the total number of factions.

Mathematically correct, but fundamentally wrong.

The HH is all about Space Marines in practice. Which is fair, giving what it is about.

I have played HH since the release of the Mechanicum tiny faction in Book 1 (i.e. the release of the game) and 0% of my games have had Space Marines on both sides.

I'm happy for you to learn that.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

nou wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
To answer the thread's question : No.

Because people like the variety of races and factions in 40K.

People say this, but like 60-70% of the player base plays Space Marines I would reckon.

IIRC, according to the last survey about 60% OWN at least some SM, that is not the same as playing SM. And even if 60% playing is true, then it also means, that 40% don't, so by the power of the simple math, HH will always be short some % of those players when compared to 40k. So the answer to OP is undisputably "no".

But HH is <60% Space Marines. Like I get it has fewer factions than 40k, but there's only 1 (or 2, if you split traitors off which imo is a mistake since they share army lists) faction(s) of Space Marines, out of like, 5 (6) major factions. I even went over the numbers in this thread.......... so Space Marines make up 20-33% of the total number of factions.

Mathematically correct, but fundamentally wrong.

The HH is all about Space Marines in practice. Which is fair, giving what it is about.

I have played HH since the release of the Mechanicum tiny faction in Book 1 (i.e. the release of the game) and 0% of my games have had Space Marines on both sides.

on both sides is the crux here, exactly as I mentioned above. I don't find any enjoyment in always facing PA. And I don't care, if they are sometimes mostly on foot, sometimes on bikes, sometimes in pods, sometimes use a lot of plasma and sometimes it's all bolters, sometimes have spikes and sometimes don't etc, they are always PA - your opponent's dudes are always chunky men with oversized shoulder pads. A huge part of ANY wargame is the aesthetic part of the tabletop experience. Same as a lot of folks, I started wargaming in times, where tabletop "graphics" was way, way above what computer games of those times offered. "The narrative in my head" is hugely dependent on miniatures I play with and against - just as much as rules' ability to portray such narrative. And here is another reason why HH will not in any way surpass 40k - the setting and context of the entire game is completely uninteresting for xenos players. I do not care if Horus was right, I don't find PA Civil War interesting anyhow. And I know I'm not the only one feeling this way (just look above at others chiming in with the exact same sentiment).

Does that mean, that HH is a bad game which cannot be attractive for a lot of folks? No, of course. But again, the OP question is about potential to become the main GW game instead of 40k, and there is exactly zero chances for that. Unless of course GW will decide to drive even more xenos players away from their IP by focusing on PA. Then, at some point in such future, there may be no practical difference between 40K and HH, and PA fans will have free reign in both timelines.

It sure does look a lot more fun then w40k, if someone plays marines though. Ton of different armies that play differently, with enough unit overlap to not dread being cheated in every game or farmed by some eldar or tyranid player.

nou 805599 11385338 wrote:

Some of them less and less so. Heck, I know sworn Marine enthusiasts who are tired of playing PA on PA in 70-80% of their 40k games and can’t be bothered by yet another SM release. Some people do like real variety in their games, you know.

But marines are different. Only DA have DW , only BA can play Sanguard etc. The problems only become real when you are stuck with one marine army and everyone who wants to have fun playing marines vs non marine armies has to play those WS or bring tournament lists and tournament player skills.

Bobthehero wrote:What's stopping you from using whatever, even with the presence of official models?

If you're in a GW store, you won't be allowed to use 3rd party store stuff, so back to the GW demons you go, so nothing gained from that freedom.

If you're not in a GW stores, you can already use whatever you want, even if GW offers official models.

Daemons of the Ruinstorm allows you to make lists of daemons out of just about any kind of weird, non-human model. Theoretically, one could construct an army exclusively out of Soulblight Gravelords and Nighthaunts, with Nagash as your commander, and as long as you played by the rules, it would be perfectly legal.

Theoritcally, one can do that with regular demons, too.

ccs wrote:
No.

It'll be more popular than before, mostly due to being more accessible, but no, it won't surpass 40k.
For starters it pretty much outright excludes anyone who doesn't want to play some color of Marines....

This is factually incorrect. Guard, Militia, Custodes, Sisters of Silence and Ad Mech are all fully flushed out factions. In addition, there are very nice and easily accessible rules for Orks, Eldar and Deamons. The legions, while drawing from the same basic pool of units are highly customizable and offer loads of different styles of play. Model customizability is loads better than the current limitations in 40K.


To answer OP's question, I think it's possible. Before 8th, it was well on its way to taking the throne from 40k. With all the backsteps they've taken recently, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if people flock to it. I hope they do.

I've heard that Demons in HH/30k are freaking cool and thematic AF.

 Blndmage wrote:
I've heard that Demons in HH/30k are freaking cool and thematic AF.

I haven't seen them used yet, but I'm hoping to soon. A buddy of a friend is planning out Deamons of the Ruinstorm for his army project.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Theoritcally, one can do that with regular demons, too.

You could, but since 40k daemons are much more explicitly tied to specific gods and aesthetics, it might look out of place.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Theoritcally, one can do that with regular demons, too.

chances are, just as with every HH list sofar, that said list will be far superior in design then 40k ones.especially for chaos factions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blndmage wrote:
I've heard that Demons in HH/30k are freaking cool and thematic AF.

Rulewise they are or atleast were.

They played completely anathema, are able to represent daemons unaligned, have interesting mechanics like being strong in the early game and weaker in the late game representing the weakening warp influence as they use up their energy to remain in the materium.
They have had their own missions which replace normal ones for victory conditions.

In one phrase: they are what Chaos daemons should be, but saidly are not in 40k.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Theoritcally, one can do that with regular demons, too.

chances are, just as with every HH list sofar, that said list will be far superior in design then 40k ones.especially for chaos factions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blndmage wrote:
I've heard that Demons in HH/30k are freaking cool and thematic AF.

Rulewise they are or atleast were.

They played completely anathema, are able to represent daemons unaligned, have interesting mechanics like being strong in the early game and weaker in the late game representing the weakening warp influence as they use up their energy to remain in the materium.
They have had their own missions which replace normal ones for victory conditions.

In one phrase: they are what Chaos daemons should be, but saidly are not in 40k.

If they bring that into the next 40k demon book, I'm 12,000% into it.

Wouldn't work in 40k, modern 40k is a 2-3 turn game, Horus Heresy is still a 6 turn game.

Theres time in HH for the army to get weaker, if they tried to do that in 40k then you would basically have to win the game on turn 1 to have a chance lol.

 arkhanist wrote:

But there's a ton of head kits from forgeworld and another round for all in the process of releasing, with AMPLE scope to differentiate HH marines - including using bits from 40k kits too if you want. So no - they don't "all look the same" unless you put zero effort in, and that applies to ANY army.

Sorry but the amount of SW bits I can get from my 40k SW kits is huge compared from the bits I can get from HH kits for the same faction, and I certainly don't need to use tons of green stuff just to give some flavour to otherwise bland models. Also, if I have to use 40k bits I'd stick with 40k models at that point.

But yeah, I think the HH aesthetics is awful other than lacking flavour.

I would like to see any version of 30k surpass 40k, but it would need army lists for orks, tyrannids and necrons to make it stick.

 SirDonlad wrote:
I would like to see any version of 30k surpass 40k, but it would need army lists for orks, tyrannids and necrons to make it stick.

Which would make 30k into 40k, kinda defeating the whole point of it.

 Tyran wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
I would like to see any version of 30k surpass 40k, but it would need army lists for orks, tyrannids and necrons to make it stick.

Which would make 30k into 40k, kinda defeating the whole point of it.

Not really considering through out 30k and the grade crusade they fought orks and eldar all the time.

Hell sons of horus came to be BECAUSE of them fighting the oks.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
I would like to see any version of 30k surpass 40k, but it would need army lists for orks, tyrannids and necrons to make it stick.

Which would make 30k into 40k, kinda defeating the whole point of it.

Not really considering through out 30k and the grade crusade they fought orks and eldar all the time.

Hell sons of horus came to be BECAUSE of them fighting the oks.

I would like to see any version of 30k surpass 40k, but it would need army lists for orks, tyrannids and necrons to make it stick.

Bolded for emphasis.

How much can you import from 40k before 30k becomes 40k?
Also the Eldar in 30k should be different from 40k, as they were just out of the Fall and building the factions and cultures that are well known in 40k.

 Tyran wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
I would like to see any version of 30k surpass 40k, but it would need army lists for orks, tyrannids and necrons to make it stick.

Which would make 30k into 40k, kinda defeating the whole point of it.

Not really considering through out 30k and the grade crusade they fought orks and eldar all the time.

Hell sons of horus came to be BECAUSE of them fighting the oks.

I would like to see any version of 30k surpass 40k, but it would need army lists for orks, tyrannids and necrons to make it stick.

Bolded for emphasis.

How much can you import from 40k before 30k becomes 40k?
Also the Eldar in 30k should be different from 40k, as they were just out of the Fall and building the factions and cultures that are well known in 40k.

How much can you import?

Eldar and Ork codex for xenos. that would be more then enough and put 30k/hh in a perfect location to cover everytying from the great crusade up until the siege of terra, and hell even the scouring

Now personally i would also LOVE a Xeno codex that worked like ruinstorm as well, where its basically build a bear xeno work shop so you can make armies like the megarachnids.

Also the Eldar in 30k should be different from 40k, as they were just out of the Fall and building the factions and cultures that are well known in 40k.

feth, how did i forget to include the eldar?!?
they are a crucial part of the Legio Atarus fluff - i can't believe i just forgot about the eldar

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Now personally i would also LOVE a Xeno codex that worked like ruinstorm as well, where its basically build a bear xeno work shop so you can make armies like the megarachnids.

oh yeah; i want to play the Hrud so bad!