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My solution to avoid 100% of all the problems and stress of rules is to play using the beer and dice rules set. I will have the new  Codex: Beer and Dice out by never. You play with friends who all want to put minis on the field and roll dice and have a good time. Dont worry about this rule or that, or allow rules lawyers to take all the fun away. You will all disagree, but you are all wrong, this is a game, not a lifestyle.

And we can make guns with our fingers, and run around making "BANG" noises at each other, and call each other cheaters because "I GOT YOU I GOT YOU". Wow, you're so inspired.

With the greatest of respect Roneldar, how long have you played warhammer 40K?

What would be the point of playing a game that has flexible rules? it like saying "your lascannon is out of range by 1" but I'll let you shoot it anyway cus I wanna have fun.

If you do actually have fun playing that way then I wish you and your opponents all the best in your games.
I for one enjoy playing completely within the rules and have never walked away after a match without enjoying it - win or lose, despite several heated debates on particular rules that could have spellt doom for one of mine or his squads, we feel better for playing the game with the rules we were given in the Holy big book of rules and relevant codex's.

Posted By roneldar on 05/23/2007 11:22 PM
this is a game, not a lifestyle.

At least you're right on one point.  It's a game, and games have rules.  If you don't want to have to deal with the rules, you can always just buy those neat little green plastic army men, who are much cheaper too.

Oh yes, I understand. I have seen you guys at game stores, in long debates over this army or that one. Do you know how silly that sounds. If you could listen to your own conversations via 40k virgin ears you would understand.

I remember what got me into the game. It was the long debates I heard. Before then I had never heard of 40k let alone a miniatures game. Those dwbates got me interested. What is this game, and how could it have such a rules set to have differant interpretations? I immediatly was hooked. Since then I have found countless hours of enjoyment debating rules and interpretations. Granted there are the rules lawyers, but the funny thing about them is they usual are wrong and usualy arnt good gamers.

I've only ever played a game in a GW store once and have never been again.

If you don't like playing warhammer by the rules then why play it at all, thats like buying monopoly and giving the characters special powers like super dog and quick iron   I can picture it now, roll a double one and super dog can fly to the next station to save Central Trains from yet another delay from leaves on the line

If you think we're silly then fair enough, I can laugh at myself being a muppet and going redfaced during a debate over a tiny lump of plastic covered in paint. Just remember it goes both ways my friend.

And yes I agree, it is just a game, not a lifestyle. have fun either way

You mean like us guys on Dakka? XD

roneldar, this is not 'Nam, this is 40k - there are rules.

Has the whole world gone CRAZY?!  AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO GIVES A $#!T ABOUT THE RULES?!

Yes, but all of the rules lawyers take the 'fun' out of the 'game'. Most of these arguments are over abuses of the rules.
Like 'terminators can't infiltrate', but by RAW, if you upgrade a scout sgt to vet, and give him TA, he doesn't lose the 'infiltrate' skill.

It's a beer and pretzels game. One of our tourneys here even has beer available (to >18s) during the comp. Rules lawyers get laughed at by the judges, too. See Roneldar, some people can be sensible about it. It's all the other ones that ruin it.

When I ran tournaments for my store, I encouraged the players to work out rules disputes between themselves by ruling exactly RAW everytime I could. (As we all know sometimes RAW doesn't cover situations.) The few times I couldn't give a RAW ruling, I just made a decision based on how I felt it should be played. Pretty soon everybody figured out that they could either learn the rules and play by them, or they could play how they wanted and not ask me. A lot of times people would ask me just to find out what the rules actually said (or interacted with each other or whatnot), and then decided if that's how they wanted to play the situation. Being a rules lawyer helps when people come to you EXPECTING YOU TO KNOW THE RULES, and knowing how the rules work really helps when deciding if you want to play by them or not.

It may be a beer and pretzels game, but you need to know when to bring soda and chips too.

Damn that was lame... I actually though someone had created fun rules to bring beer in to the game. Something in style: "chug a beer and the bolters wound space marines on a 3+ in this shooting phase" or "for each beer you chug in 5 minutes your genestealers can charge an extra inch". The victory points are then after the game multiplied with the promilles of alcohol in blood to determine the winner.

Posted By chromedog on 06/20/2007 1:45 AM
Like 'terminators can't infiltrate', but by RAW, if you upgrade a scout sgt to vet, and give him TA, he doesn't lose the 'infiltrate' skill.

Why would he lose the infiltrate skill?  If scout vet srgs were supposed to lose infiltrate when they took terminator armor then they would have a rule saying so.

"@gurkmannen"
How bout you add 1+ to all dice rolls results for a single turn if you can eat a whole bag of peanuts at once without choking.

And 100 extra VP for every store emptying belch that reaches 3.7 on the rictorscale or anything capable of setting off a car alarm.


In the games I play, one person usual becomes an unoffical rules lawyer and that helps speed things along as only one person is clarifying rules or swotting in the BGB during a game.

If the ruling is diputed however then we just ask ourselves what seems reasonable to happen in this situation, then go with that.

And if that fails, then we use the dice of fate 1-3 I'm right, 4-6 you're right. Once game is over we swot properly to find out what really should have happened so the game doesn't grind to a halt.
(with obvious gloating or swearing from the person who the dice favoured)

I think Warhammer 40k is about enjoying yourself having a laugh making mates and having a good time and not anyone ruining the game cause they're arguing and saying YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!! and THAT NOT IN THR RULES it just makes people unhappy and makes people want to leave.

I'd agree with that 100%, games are there to be fun. Due to the excessive amount of rules and exceptions in the game, mis-interpritations are bound to occur and rule lawyers who know the rules are useful.

However if it got to the stage where poeple are becoming redfaced and very heated, I think I'd most likely call a 15min break to let everyone calm down and look at the problem again refreshed.

As Roneldar said, "this is a game, not a lifestyle."

yeah i agree cause you wouldn't want to make them EVEN more Redfaced they just get more angry and start shouting or even swearing and it ruin the game and they get kicked out from any store if they were playing in a store yeah so i agree with that

i played a game once of LOTR and when we went into combat and shooting he did wounds first and i thought he had 2 hit i said that but he said no whos right me or him?

i thought he had to hit first am i right or is he?

Well gee, no kidding.

And im sure my brain surgery virgin ears would not understand what two Neurologists were discussing in a debate.

This is up there with your "i saw two GW staff member playing Warmachine in a GW store!" post. Or your "my buddy a big time banker with a million points of eldar said GW was selling all of its assets" line of bull.