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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/27 06:42:22
Subject: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord-130 -Lightning Claws, Terminator Armor, Psycannon Familiar, 3 Heavy Bolter Gun Servitors, 3 Acolytes with Storm Bolters, 2 Mystics -123 Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord-116 -Blessed Weapon, Rosarius, Bolt Pistol, Purgatus 3 Familiars, 3 Crusaders, 2 Acolytes with Bolt Pistol and Carapace Armor-102 Callidus Assassin-120 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor-65 -Psycannon, Emperors’ Tarot 3 Acolytes with Hellguns, 3 Heavy Bolter Servitors, 2 Mystics-111 Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor-61 -Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol. Liber Heresius, Praesidium, Protectiva Familiar, 3 Crusaders, 2 Acolytes with Bolt Pistol and Carapace Armor -90 5 Inquisitorial Storm Troopers-70 -2 Meltaguns 5 Inquisitorial Storm Troopers-70 -2 Meltaguns Infantry Platoon-210 Junior Officer-50 -Laspistol, CCW Command Squad -Heavy Bolter Infantry Squad-80 -Lascannon Infantry Squad-80 -Lascannon Infantry Platoon-210 Junior Officer-50 -Laspistol, CCW Command Squad -Heavy Bolter Infantry Squad-80 -Lascannon Infantry Squad-80 -Lascannon Infantry Platoon-270 Junior Officer-60 -Laspistol, CCW Command Squad -Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun Infantry Squad-70 -Heavy Bolter Infantry Squad-70 -Heavy Bolter Infantry Squad-70 -Heavy Bolter
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Angron- crushing the theme and fluff of armies one horde at a time.
-The Trooper |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/27 07:26:12
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Your =I= squads will get torn apart by incoming fire, and you don't have enough firepower to convince me to come to you, so they won't work as counter-charge. Also, why guardsmen? I think that you can get the same number of lascannons using 6 man tactical squads. Can you really take that many russes? I thought you could only have one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/27 07:50:07
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Interesting list. It's certainly ... fluffy? Okay, first off the witch hunter inq lord. Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord-116 -Blessed Weapon, Rosarius, Bolt Pistol, Purgatus 3 Familiars, 3 Crusaders, 2 Acolytes with Bolt Pistol and Carapace Armor-102 I'm not sure why you're packing 3 familiars. Taking more than one allows the Inq to take more psychic powers, but you only have one power so that seems wasted. If they are just there to act as ablative wounds I'd suggest pulling 2 of them and upgrading the acolytes to power armor, bolt pistol, and a ccw. I think that the 3+ save and extra attack in HtH, which the retinue looks geared towards, would be more useful than another T3 6+ save model. If they are meant for HtH maybe mount them in a chimera for some extra dakka and a way to move them around faster? Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord-130 -Lightning Claws, Terminator Armor, Psycannon Familiar, 3 Combat Servitors, 2 Acolytes with Bolt Pistol and Power Armor, 2 Mystics -127 Can the lord have a pair of lightning claws and a psycannon? Not exactly sure if this is supposed to be shooty, or just assaulty with a psycannon in addition. I think it's harder to make daemonhunters fighty than it is with witch hunters. Combat servitors simply arent that great, S6 power fist? Imho the crusaders that witch hunters get are more effective with their 4+ invul save and power weapon. Plus the crusader is WS4 where the combat servitor is WS3. If you are trying to make it assaulty I'd at least add a ccw to each acolyte. Personally I think you'd be better off trying to make a shooty retinue with gun servitors. Drop the familiar, lightning claws, and the 3 combat servitors and take a gun servitor w/ plasma cannon, gun servitor w/ heavy bolter, guardsman w/ plasma gun, and two sages. Something more like your elite inq. I suppose that's a lot of points to justify a BS5 psycannon, BS4 plasma gun, BS4 heavy bolter, and BS4 plasma gun even though one of those can be rerolled. Maybe drop the hvy bolter servitor and the plasma gunner to save 45 points instead. Overall I'm not a fan of inquisitors in general. They tend to be huge point sinks for medicore shooting platforms. At assault they're even more costly and less effective. Sure you can get a decently tooled inq lord but his retinue will always drag him down. If you insist on taking inquisitors that are assaulty I'd at least scrounge up the points for transports for them. Some chimeras would add to the firepower greatly and help move your witch hunter inqs around. Maybe consider dropping the elite malleus inq, moving the tarot to your lord, and buying two cheap multilaser/ hvy bolter chimeras for your inq lords. If you're going to be paying that much to tool them up in HtH they might as well have a shot of making it there. Even if you make none of the bigger changes to your inquisitors you need to fix your troops. Definately worth while to take plasma guns with all your guard lascannon squads. They're a pretty static part of your force and they're definately going to get assaulted. Some plasma will help when ranges close, or to shoot enemies that consildate after massacring your other squads. The inq storm troops look really naked. Sure they're your 100 points of required troops choices, but you might as well give them two plasma guns so they can do something. Makes them more expensive but at least they're not just wasted points in two 5 man units doomed to be meatshields. I'd also recommend finding some points to give sponson heavy bolters to all your battle tanks. If your battle cannon gets blown off you're stuck with a single heavy bolter. With three heavy bolters for only 15 points you can put out a good amount of shots and they make a respectable alternate shooting method if the battle cannon is blown off or inappropriate in a given situation. Lots of your force is guard. Maybe switch it to a guard force with allied inquisitors. Sure you wont be able to take witch hunters and daemon hunters, but I think your list will be more effective overall. Use the 100 points of inq stormies to buy a required guard HQ: JO w/ ID, HI, and standard. If you choose to drop the malleus portion of the list you can buy a squad of seraphim who actually support guard very well. It's really tough to make a good daemon hunters list with such a reliance on inquisitors. I'll try and think up some ways to make it a bit more viable, but I think you're stuck trying to make killer assault units and shooting platforms out of inquisitors that are simply too expensive.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/27 07:59:10
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Just checked the rules. Heavy support inducted russes are 0-1. In addition you need at least two squads of inducted guard to open up the 0-1 option anyways. Guard lascannons and marine lascannons work out about the same. 5 marine las/ plas squads = 115*5 = 575 points and 3.333 lascannon hits 6 guard las/plas squads = 95*6 = 570 points and 3 lascannon hits So pretty similar. Guard have to buy platoon HQs (though they can stick more cheap heavy weapons there) and really need leadership bubbles to be effective while the marines really dont. In a list like this I'd suggest the marines over the guard as they are slightly more effective at shooting and operate better alone, guard really need some leadership bubbles to test off of. If you take the inducted marines it forces you to drop the battle tanks but opens up 0-1 tornadoes, 0-1 preds, and 0-1 devs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/27 09:13:34
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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there's a reason I'm not doing marines... combat squads are coming out for all marines in a bit..... and that means I'd need 10 marines for one lascannon... no thank you. I'll fix the list by taking out the tanks
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Angron- crushing the theme and fluff of armies one horde at a time.
-The Trooper |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/27 16:17:27
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I still think your inquisitors are gonna get torn up pretty quickly. If you drop the 3rd platoon and a heavy bolter off the first platoon's HQ you could buy 3 chimeras with hull heavy bolter and multilaser. One transport for each inq lord and retinue and one for the assaulty elite witch hunter. The extra points can be used for an honorifica imperialis for the platoon HQ that dropped the heavy bolter. I think this makes the list way stronger. You keep about the same amount of fire power, fewer bolters but 3 multilasers, though they are vehicle mounted. More importantly you've got a way of delivering your assaulty squads and hopefully protecting your inquisitors for a time. Plus you get a better leadership bubble for the increasing amounts of inducted guard you're taking. Now that you'd be running three tanks and have the required two platoons, you can run a russ if you like. I'd drop the shooty elite malleus and move the tarot to your lord. Russ provides about the same amount of shooting and is way more resiliant, cheaper too. Extra points can go towards buying plasma guns for your guard line squads. Inq stormies look way better with the meltaguns, too. Just noticed your points are off on the lascannon squads. IG las/ plas are 95 points, just for a lascannon is 85 not 80, so fix that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/27 17:14:39
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Nimble Dark Rider
T.O.
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You cant take more than one Crusader in a retinue, your Inquisitors cant take blessed weapons and im pretty certain they cant use the Preasidium Protectiva, but Im not sure about that last one. The Space Marines have to be of the basic veriety, since they arent going to be combat squaded for along time dont sweat it; I say take the guard for the cheap bodies and the fluff. You should try to give youre army a more all-round fighting style, best to go with all shooting. The retinues are a bit confused about what they want to do. Also keep the majority armor save around 4+ (I think you did a pretty good job in the firs place). What the hell are the Hellguns for? Bolters cost the same thing and are better. Take out both elite Inquisitors and add some Russes, Land Raiders or Excorsists. Even Chimeras would help, you need some armor.
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Please put this on your sig if you know someone, work for someone or are related to someone who suffers from stupidity. Stupidity is real and should be taken seriously. You could be sitting next to a sufferer right now. There is still no known cure for stupidity and sympathy does not help. But we can raise awareness.... 93% won't copy and paste this because they don't know how to copy and paste |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/28 08:48:32
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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Where does it say you can only have one crusader in a retinue? I'm looking in the witch hunter codex and can't find it anywhere. Since when can't Witch Hunter Inquisitors take blessed weapons? And since when can't they use the Preasidium Protectiva? I don't see anything limiting the wargear options of a witch hunter inquisitor. And the change to space marines are coming out in a couple of months.... that's not very far off. Hellguns are there because they can't buy bolters.... it isn't an option in the armory.... combi-bolters are... but I'm not paying 10 points. And armor is worthless. By not taking armor, I eliminate half the enemies heavy weapons....
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Angron- crushing the theme and fluff of armies one horde at a time.
-The Trooper |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/05/28 10:38:53
Subject: RE: 1750 DH with WH Allies
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Fresh-Faced New User
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The problem with not taking armor is that all your expensive inq squads are going to get shot up. Most of them are only 8 or so wounds with mostly 4+ saves, though there are some 6+ and 3+. They cost a lot but cant really absorb any damage. Chimeras would really help out with the assaulty inq squads. As it's been pointed out you'll be out shot by shooty armies and you'll have to got to them. Without transports I dont see your retinues getting into combat. It doesnt seem like you want to change your list at all, so whatever. I'm pushing armor because you need a way to get into combat. I understand that it gives AT guns targets, but you've got to move your retinues somehow. I cant see how the list will be effective. It looks like an infantry heavy IG list with none of the advantages of IG and all the disadvantages of Witch and daemon hunters. You're not using IG tanks, cheap special weapons, you're only taking line squads. If you really want that many static line squads I seriously recommend taking plasma guns and giving them a decent leadership bubble. What you are taking is extremely expensive yet questionably effective inquisitors and their retinues. I think the list needs to be reworked heavily. If you must have both daemon hunters and witch hunters in a single list consider using witch hunters as the parent list. Take sisters in rhinos, some seraphim, and exorcists. Fill in your daemon hunters allies with some inquisitors and maybe some cheap 6 stormies w/ 2 plasma guns in a chimera. This way the armor for your inquisitors isnt out of place as there will be exorcists to shoot and the sister's rhinos as well. Mech sisters I think will mesh much better with large inquisition retinues than static IG.
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