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I remembered reading about an armoured company for Imperial Guard made up entirely of vehicles.

I fancied the idea of trying it with Space Marines and fielding vehicles only where possible and wanted to know if this is a bad idea or if people have had success with a list like it. I've not tried playing a list like it so wanted some feedback in case its a dumb idea

Basically I'm thinking of the obvious 3tanks, all speeders, all dreadnoughts, Rhino to accompany each troop choice and command squad etc etc.

Any thoughts?

It would be interesting. The main difficulty, I think, would be the lack of utility of the rhino versus the chimera.

Also, keep in mind that Armored Companies and Mechanized Companies are two different things for guard. Armored Companies can be made up of nothing but Leman Russes, if you so wish. Mechanized companies just require each infantry unit to acquire a Chimera.

Dark Angels might be a good army to try this. You get cheap rhinos after all.

It is feasible. I'd include a Razorback for your HQ choice though. Command Squads can only ever be 5 models anyway (for Dark Angels), so you're not restricted at all by the smaller capacity and the extra guns are always handy.

It's not all that uncommon and is a fun list. It's not an 'A' tier tournament army, but it can be pretty solid.

On a similar topic, do you know if IG Armoured Companies can be taken to GT?

it is possible especially with the new dark angels dex

3 pred destructors are cheep as hell, you can do cobat squads so a full 10 man squad can have a razorback. and you can take a techmarine who fills no slot on the FOC for every heavy or elite vehicle you field.  there are a couple down sides. razorbacks and predators have piss poor armor, speeders are spendy and your limited on the numbers of tornados you can take now that th squadrons are gone, and dreads are rediculously expensive points wise.

Its definately worth a try. Several tac squads in rhinos with plasma guns can be quite deadly. If I'm not mistaken, there is a trait that lets you trade in your heavy weapon for another special weapon...take it. The trick is to know when to stay in your rhinos and when to get out. You basically want to start them all out of line of sight on turn one. Move forward on turn 2 and pop smoke. Then on turn three, you want to move up and get out (no matter what). If you can shoot something, great. If you cant shoot anything, then keep the squad behind the rhino so that they can't be shot and move and fire next turn. Back up the rhino squads with dreadnaughts, speeders, and some preadators (your choice on what flavor) and you'll be good to go.

This is the only way I roll! (pun intended)

I had loads of success and fun in the third edition @ several RTT and GT/GD events all over the northeast for over 3 years.  I have not played in almost two seasons, the new rules seem to hurt vehicle based lists and the dedicated transport rule hurts you for objective grabbing.  I will know better after the Chicago GT in July as I will be playing a list very similar to my 3rd edition builds:

Land Raider w/ termie command squad

4-5 tactical combat squads in razorbacks

2-3 preds

2-3 land speeders

With DA you don't need to make the squad 10 man to take a transport. This means you can take Razorbacks with each 5 man squad if you want Razors and to still be fully mechanized. It also avoids the absurdities in Escalation missions.

Asmodai, that's not my reading of the rules - sure, a 10 man squad can split into two 5 man combat squads, but they can't choose to take _2_ rhinos/razorbacks - transports are a _squad_ option, not a _combat squad_ option, amd a _squad_ can only take one transport option. Unless anyone else disagrees?

I used this list last night against a Tau army

HQ Captain Cluberlang with plasma pistol, power weapon 105
with 7x command squad with vet & power fist, company champion 155
HQ Cloud SkyHawk with power weapon, plasma pistol, inv save 4+ 135

ELITE Dreadnought with lascannon, missile launcher, extra armour 140
ELITE Dreadnought with assualt cannon, close combat claw, extra armour110
ELITE Dreadnought with multi-melta, close combat claw, extra armour 120

TROOP 10xMarines with vet & power fist, meltagun 190
TROOP 10xMarines with vet & power fist, meltagun 190

FAST 10xAssualt Marines with 1veteran with power fist, 1xplasma pistols255
FAST Land Speeder 2xTyphoon with multi-melta 170
FAST Land Speeder with assualt cannon, heavy bolter 80

HEAVY Whirlwind standard 85
HEAVY Predator with twin lascannon turret, H bolter spons, extra armour 135
HEAVY Predator with autocannon turret, lascannon spons, extra armour 130
TOTAL 2000


Suffice to say I won a Secure and hold match with his one scoring unit just inside the 12" radius looking at 3 of my scoring units.

I was lucky on the dice rolls for the first two turns, and managed to deal a lot of damage whilst keeping out the way of his railguns which gave my vehicles a lot of survivabilty

Posted By Clang on 06/05/2007 2:57 PM
Asmodai, that's not my reading of the rules - sure, a 10 man squad can split into two 5 man combat squads, but they can't choose to take _2_ rhinos/razorbacks - transports are a _squad_ option, not a _combat squad_ option, amd a _squad_ can only take one transport option. Unless anyone else disagrees?

I don't think that's what he's saying.

Instead of taking 10 man squads with a Razorback and making one of the combat squads footslog, only buy 5 man squads with a Razorback and be fully mechanized.

Posted By Clang on 06/05/2007 2:57 PM
Asmodai, that's not my reading of the rules - sure, a 10 man squad can split into two 5 man combat squads, but they can't choose to take _2_ rhinos/razorbacks - transports are a _squad_ option, not a _combat squad_ option, amd a _squad_ can only take one transport option. Unless anyone else disagrees?

You're misreading me.

You do not have to take the extra 5 marines. It is optional.

You can take a 5 five man squad and give them a Razorback.

You can then use another Troops choice to take another 5 man Squad and give them a Razorback.

The drawback if that neither can take a heavy weapon, but if you're planning on getting up close anyway, that's not so big a deal. You can use Pred Annihilators or Multi-Melta Speeders to fulfill anti-tank role.

cool. I've seen other people do the 10 man squads, putting one combat squad (usually with 2 special weapons) from each squad into a razorback, and leaving the other combat squads as bolter-only backup - quite a good idea if you want lots of infantry and lots of bolter fire. but if you only want a max of 6 squads, 5 man squads are fine.

A SM mechanised army doesnt necessarily mean 'as many vehicles as possiblr'. Mechanised means mobile, you could include Assault Marines even though they dont have transport, but Dreadnoughts should be omitted from the list, even though vehicles. They will act as little more than anchors in a true mechanised list.

Well maybe three Dreadnoughts were a bit OTT, but then again, a dread is a fantasticly well priced unit and fitted in with the feel of a mech marine list.

Possibly could have removed one dread and fielded a rhino and razerback with lascannon, or maybe two razors heavy bolter.

Also, I agree about the mechanised statement, perhaps Armoured Division would be a better word.

Dreadnoughts synergize well with a mech list anyway though. They're not as mobile, but they can move and keep shooting. More importantly they help swamp your opponent with armoured targets outstripping the ability of his anti-tank weapons to deal with them.

Dark Angels are not restricted from fielding a heavy weapon in their smaller squads, this is bad reading on the part of alot of people who read it. And frankly the first person to sit across the table and tell me that my 10 man squad can't split up because its an escalation mission is going to get smacked. . .

Now one of the best Mechanized Marine Lists I have seen is the following.

2 x Librarian with FOTD, and FOTA

2 x Command Squad with Apothecary, Plasma Gun and Rhino

3 x Dreadnaughts with Las-Cannon, Missile Launcher

2 x Tac Squad with Rhino, 2 Plasma Guns

3 x Land Speeder Tornadoes: Separate Squadrons

3 x Predator with Auto-Cannon, Heavy Bolters

It basically used the Preds to mow down any 4+ save targets or light vehicles, the Dreads take out the heavy vehicles or carnies, 1 plasma rhino on each flank and a command rhino on each flank who work together either dropping marines or using FOTA and FOTD to hammer units off the table.

Something horrible to remember, you don't worry about get hot on the guys shooting plasmas and Psychic abilities can also be used from inside the rhinos fire point.

Posted By citadel97501 on 06/07/2007 2:29 PM
Dark Angels are not restricted from fielding a heavy weapon in their smaller squads, this is bad reading on the part of alot of people who read it. And frankly the first person to sit across the table and tell me that my 10 man squad can't split up because its an escalation mission is going to get smacked. . .

How the heck do you read "If the squad numbers ten models, one Space Marine may replace his bolter with a heavy bolter... for +10 points" to not require the squad to number ten models for one Space Marine to buy the heavy?

Posted By citadel97501 on 06/07/2007 2:29 PM
Dark Angels are not restricted from fielding a heavy weapon in their smaller squads, this is bad reading on the part of alot of people who read it. And frankly the first person to sit across the table and tell me that my 10 man squad can't split up because its an escalation mission is going to get smacked. . .

Hmm, I'm certain it says that a squad that starts in reserve at the beginning of the game cannot split into combat squads when they arrive to the table, they have to be on the table during the initial deployment to be able to split.

Will get the reference when I get home but I'm fairly certain of this.

I had a list with two 10 man Tactical Squads with Rhino transports, a 10 man Command Squad in a Land Raider, and a 10 man Assault Squad.  I played against Eldar, with only 1 Falcon and Wave Serpent.

On turn 1, BOTH of my Rhinos were DESTROYED.  Talk about a big crimp in my game plan.  The Land Raider lasted until turn 3.  In the end, the Assault Squad was AMAZING.  The game ended in a draw after Victory Points were calculated.

So, even though it was only 1 game, it really made me open my eyes to the vulnerability of Rhinos.  They only have a front armor of 11, which translates into Heavy Bolters having a reasonable chance at destroying them (by rolling a 6 twice...it can be done).  Anything with a Strength of 8 or more has a 50% chance at causing a glancing hit.  That's a 50% chance of a glancing hit, and a 17% chance of being destroyed in one turn.  Not very good in my book.

I changed my army list, and removed the Rhinos.  I played the same player against the same army.  I won a glorious victory.  Again, the Assault Marines were AMAZING.  I didn't miss the Rhinos at all.  Really made me reconsider my 1,500 list.

Hope this helps.

Yes, that does help.

A tactic I used once was to field the rhino's with marines crouched at the rear of the rhino protecting them from enemy fire. Even if the rhino becomes unusable the marines can then run around the sides and continue going.

I won my first battle against Imperial Guard this way after many many game losses. Personally I think Rhino's are a little lacking for my game style, hence why I didn't use them in the list I posted above.

However, a command squad rhino followed up by assualt marines in a tasty little assualting force.

Your tactic is right on. Best thing about 35 pt. Rhinos is that you get mobile cover for your advancing Tactical squads. I usually zip up first turn, smoke (which greatly helps survivability), then next turn get out and use the rhinos to shield my Tac squads from return fire as I rapid fire an opponents flank.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Even with 58pt Rhinos, I still get good use from them. I always start deployed behind them, so even if they get blown up on turn 1 (and I usually deploy more carefully than that), my squad is okay and is usually protected by the wreck (4+ cover save, remember). If I need to assault, I'll usually zoom forward, popping smoke and staying in the tank only in that turn if my opponent has sufficient guns/insufficient other targets that I'm worried about losing the Rhinos. If the Rhino lives that turn and I still need to go further, it moves again and the Marines immediately hop out behind it. Rhinos are solid, and their use is much more tactical and realistic in 4th edition. I like the 35pt Rhinos in my Dark Angels codex, but the 15pts for extra armor kills me.

Even with the extra armor you are saving 8 points off the cost of them from C:SM.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I don't understand why the Space Marines even USE the Rhino, as they can be destroyed so easily. I guess it is the same reason they use the Bolter. It is considered a "Holy" tool of war. (My lack of favor for the Bolter is because it is only S 4 AP 5, and has a Rapid Fire range of 12"......if you are 12" away from an enemy, why not Assault it....even if you are not as good at melee as your enemy, you can still take away the +1 Attack THEY will get when they Assault YOU next turn....anyway)

I see why you wanted to make a mechanised army, though. I started this way as well. I loved the idea of a strike force of Holy Marines smashing down on an enemy detachment as the Traitors scramble to get into battle positions. It just has the whole "Death and Glory" feel I think Space Marines should have.

As far as my "deployment" on the game where I was unfortunate enough to see 2 of my Rhino transports explode, it was due to the table layout. I am usually MUCH more careful about unit setup. I was also trying out something new, and lost the coin toss to see who got to go first. Still, you would think that a Rhino could take a LITTLE more punishment. Oh well, live and learn...

Ask yourself a couple questions here.
1) How did you get close enough to rapidfire or assault? There's few options and most of them deny assaulting.
2) Are you in range to assault? The enemy can be 18" away and you'll still be able to rapidfire. They have to be whithin 12" to assault. Difficult terrain makes it even worse.
3) Will you be able to cripple the target with rapid fire? If the squad is toting plasma, why assault when you can kill twice as much rapidfirng and also lkely get a torrent of fire on the fist/icon/whatever.

Also, shooting is (generaly) more accurate and doesn't give your opponent the opportunity to attack back that turn. Now, there ae obvious advantages to assualting, not least of which is hiding from shooting or denying charge bonuses. but often times RF is smarter, even when you can assault.

A squad of 10marines is within 12" of a 10choas marine squad. You can either

A. Shoot two shots each hitting on 3+ wounding on 4+
B. Assualt getting two attacks hitting on 4+ wounding on 4+

Statisics for this eample would suggests that shooting would be better than assualt

But... what if its the last turn of a game, if you assualt then the enemy can't use its last turn to move to the objective for example. therefore in this case, statisics would say you'd do more damage with shooting but it most likely won't stop them.

Thats the advantage of the rapid fire, you get to choose to shoot or to assualt(not both) depending on the situation. Both arguements can be valid.