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In deciding how to equip my Howling Banshee Exarch, I ran the following analysis. No armour saves, so the calculations are pretty easy.


On the Charge

Executioner
Vs. MEQ(T4): 3 attacks hitting on a 3+ (2.00), wounding on a 3+ = 1.32 kills
Vs. GEQ(T3): Wounding on a 2+ = 1.66 kills

Mirror Swords
Vs. MEQ: 5 attacks, hitting on 3+ (3.30), wounding on a 5+ = 1.09 kills
Vs. GEQ: Wounding on a 4+ = 1.15 kills

In Second and Subsequent Rounds

Executioner
Vs. MEQ: 2 attacks, 1.32 hits, 0.87 kills.
Vs. GEQ: 1.10 kills

Mirror Swords
Vs. MEQ: 4 attacks, 2.64 hits, 0.87 kills
Vs. GEQ: 1.32 kills

The Executioner is more effective on the charge against all normal enemy types. When not on the charge, it is equally effective against MEQs, and only slightly less effective against GEQs.

For equal points costs, I think the Executioner is a clear winner.

Now look and see what happens when the unit you are assaulting is doomed. Those extra attacks pull the mirrorswords ahead IIRC.

With Doom

On the Charge

Executioner
Vs. MEQ(T4): 1.76 kills
Vs. GEQ(T3): 1.94 kills

Mirror Swords
Vs. MEQ: 1.81 kills
Vs. GEQ: 2.48 kills

In Second and Subsequent Rounds

Executioner
Vs. MEQ: 1.32 hits, 1.16 kills
Vs. GEQ: 1.28 kills

Mirror Swords
Vs. MEQ: 4 attacks, 2.64 hits, 1.45 kills
Vs. GEQ: 1.98 kills

The Mirror Sword does pull ahead. If you're getting the charge though, the difference against MEQs is quite minor. It does let the Exarch rip apart GEQs quite effectively though.

An excellent analysis. I must say I favor the executioner mainly due to the fact that its reliable, but its also good to know that its statistically favorable as well.

I think they're close enough that being equal in points is reasonable.

The Executioner is worthwhile if you fight a lot of MEQs, you don't have a Farseer, or you need the Banshees to be able to fight independently.

The Mirror Swords work better against T3 enemies or if you're using the Banshees to support a Guardian/DA based battleline as a counter-charge unit where they'll be in the 24" range of the Doom power.

I dont think the analysis is complete without looking at the triskele as an option. One less attack than the mirror swords, thus inferior in subsequent rounds of combat, however if you dont fleet you get three quality shots. Sure its only S3, but it hits on 2+ and ignores armour, so that counts as say, three extra attacks with +1 to hit.

If you can get away with not Fleet of Footing, the triskele is the best option on the charge, and costs 5pts less.

The main problem with the weapon is suituational, it is possible to kill enough models that a canny opponent will kill all within charge range. Thus the raw statistics are less important than your deployment. Still you are not obliged to throw it, so if charge range is questionable stick with the basic four attacks.

Here's a question that I think bears asking: how many GEqs in 40k do Banshees really need an edge in killing? Harlequins and Wyches, okay. Any others?

I will give my Banshee exarch mirror swords, because:
a) It looks cooler
and
b) The whole Banshee squad benefits from doom and therefore should always have a high priority for the farseer if banshees are used.

But thanks for the stats, I thought the executioner would be far superior with all the talking how mandatory it is for an exarch.

Greets
Schepp himself

I agree with Shepp--

Since the advent of mirror swords and Doom, I think it's been the obvious choice. The Executioner yeilds fewer attacks, giving you less pwnage against GEQs, although you can suddenly wound T8 targets. The problem is, you don't want a bunch of Banshees hopping around doing nothing while you're trying to wound high T with your Exarch's measly 2 attacks--its simply a waste of the squad (and therefore points). Eldar units do well to stay within their specialty--in the case of Banshees any target up to T6--and diversifying only tempts one into dangerous situations. I'd rather keep my Banshees homing in on a target they're good at taking out, instead of trying to accomplish too much with the Exarch.

Also, I've found that the low number of A with the executioner yeilds misses at the worst time--4 attacks with mirrorblades pretty much guarantees that you're going to do some damage with your exarch!

With the triskele--same thing. You're diversifying an assault squad, one that will rarely want to take the chance of shooting themselves out of an assault. This is not a desired outcome--ever. Not to mention, I make prolific use of Fleet of Foot with my Banshees--the extra distance is almost always needed to ensure maximum contact with the target squad, and can be a life saver when you've caused shooting casualties to said squad that suddenly left your banshees out of range... (i.e. points spent on banshee shooting are wasted 95% of the time)

Its personal preference, but I find mirrorswords to be far superior in the current environment. Banshees rule! (but they are trumped badly by Wytches)

Again, how much more pwnage do you need against GEqs? The cheapest, smallest possible Banshee squad will kill 5 Guardsmen on the charge.

I have never once worried that owning a hobby knife will tempt me into trying to fend off an armed robbery with its pointy blade of death; by the same token, I am not at all concerned that having a S5 power weapon is going to suddenly make me want to charge Wraithlords. It's for more killy vs. MEqs, not hunting 'nidzilla or whatever. Remember that and I don't see how one can go wrong.

Personally, though, I think the real "obvious choice" is not to take an Exarch at all.

The real reason to take an Exarch is because of size constraints in a transport, since an Exarch kills twice as much as a regular girl, 6 + exarch coming out of a falcon kills as much as 7 regular girls.

You shouldn't be putting banshees in a falcon anyways, that's for harlies and scorps. Banshees need larger squads.

Yes and in a ten girl squad +2 'normal' attacks from an exarch isnt much. In fact its 22pts of upgrades when an extra girl costs 16pts and yields the same number of hits.

Howling Banshee exarchs are like Dark Reaper exarchs in that they must follow what the squad does rather than fight on their own with the squad as onlookers. yet this doesnt mean you cannot gein a bonus from upgrading. An exarch with executioner has no more attacks thabn a rank and file, but the to wound modifier is so much better at both T3 and T4 power armour targets, it should not be discarded as inferior to two extra attacks or misidentified as intended to take on much tougher targets.

Triskele works because it makes good use of the Bs5 lethality. Executioner works as it gets some kills in, mirrorswords dont, just take an extra banshee instead. If you already have ten then you dont really need any more S3 power weapon attacks, you have enough right there! In which case you only need the exarch if you need the exarch powers.

Good points, Orlanth, but it is true that some people like to field them in Falcons, in which case I can buy the "2-in-1 extra killy" argument. I agree with Mnemoch, though, that putting them in Falcons is not that great an idea. (Actually, I don't think Banshees in general are a great idea, but that's a topic for another thread--and not exactly a very original or uncommon opinion, either!)

You are forgetting that exarchs have ws 5. It may only be 2 extra attacks, but all of them hit on 3's.

Exarch with mirror blades against meq.

3 1/3 hit on the charge.
2 2/3 hit after that.

Regular troop against meq
1 1/2 hit on the charge
1 hit after that.

So exarch does more than twice as many hits on ws 4 models.

Not really an answer, but since I'm painting my Banshees as we speak: Paint one of each Exarch. You need two boxes to get 10 models, and each box has an Exarch... If you get two boxes, paint one Exarch with each option, you can run a 6 or 10 man squad with your loadout of choice. Two squads of 6 Banshees doesn't seem that likely, given the other excellent units competing for the Elite slots.

It's especially appealing since the weapon loadout depends so much on your HQ choice. Doomseer is one thing, Autarch another.

That sounds like a good choce Phryxis, but you can still take two squads of six with the three Exarchs, sub the triskele exarch as just another girlie. After all you only get two exarch bodies, so the third is conversion anyway.
If you need a fluff reason the Banshee with the triskele is learning how to use it, its a power weapon after all. She doesnt know how to throw it properly yet and looks like ther type of weapon you dont want flung about by someone who doesnt know what they are doing.

Please. It took me no more than ten minutes to figure mine out.

It takes even less to know how to use a gun, but would you dare say that someone is combat ready after ten minutes. A boomerang type weapon must take a lot longer.

This is discounting the differences, this is an assauklt 3 weapon, so it jumps from tatrget to target, its also a power weapon, so its very unforgiving on the return catch. Also the thrower will have to account for other banshees in the area.

My description makes sense.

Posted By Orlanth on 07/14/2007 2:58 PM
It takes even less to know how to use a gun, but would you dare say that someone is combat ready after ten minutes. A boomerang type weapon must take a lot longer.

But she has BS 5!

No shedoesnt, the exarch has Bs5 the ordinary banshee training with the triskele has Bs4.