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AustonT wrote:They also prototype virtually everything the Army eventually adopts, so not only do they pay lower costs they get the toys first...and the Army pays for them.

That's only fairly recently, up until now, the Marines have been almost famous for using outdated weaponry. They used Springfield rifles in WWII instead of Gerands, Gerands instead of M14s in Korea, and M14s instead of M16s in Vietnam. They used the BAR until Vietnam was just about over, instead of the M60 (you could argue the M60's reliability issues here, though), Can you please list some modern/recent examples of the Marines prototyping weapons for the Army, I can't think of any off hand (might be having a brain-fart).

Squidmanlolz wrote:

AustonT wrote:They also prototype virtually everything the Army eventually adopts, so not only do they pay lower costs they get the toys first...and the Army pays for them.

That's only fairly recently, up until now, the Marines have been almost famous for using outdated weaponry. They used Springfield rifles in WWII instead of Gerands, Gerands instead of M14s in Korea, and M14s instead of M16s in Vietnam. They used the BAR until Vietnam was just about over, instead of the M60 (you could argue the M60's reliability issues here, though), Can you please list some modern/recent examples of the Marines prototyping weapons for the Army, I can't think of any off hand (might be having a brain-fart).

ERDL and digital camouflage. The MOWAG Pirhana that you may recognize as the LAV-25 and then Stryker. Metal pin on rank. I think you'll also find that some equipment "adopted" by the Army first was employed by Marines before it's official adoption by the DoN.

I think if you carefully pick over your quote you'll find some errors: e.g.
The Army did not fully field the Garand until either 1941 or 42. No one used the M-14 in Korea as it was not developed until 1957, the Marines maintained M-14s on a 1 per squad basis replacing the m1-c/D in the squad designated marksmen that was eliminated in the Army otherwise the standard Marine battle rifle was the M-16 at least by Tet I, the M-60 was in full use by at the very least the 5th and 7th Marine Regiments when they arrived in Vietnam in fact the notable users of the BAR in Vietnam are the Green Berets it remained in USANG service into at least 1972 long after OT had been phased out of USMC issue.

It's true that the Marines have a long and almost proud history of using old gak to kick ass, it's largely a myth. The Army drove development during the whole 20th century but often the Marines uniformly adopted and used trucks,tanks, and guns and submitted improvements to designs first. In the current era of Joint development you'd be hard pressed to say who had what first, though certainly a Wikipedia entry will say Army a joint system is more likely to be fielded by the Marines first. Were you to flip through and index of pictures from say wwIi to present you'd likely find basic infantry equipment in the hands of Marines before soldiers.

^Thanks for the heads up.

I'm having a mellow day. Normally I'd be more of a dick about it...pretend I was.

I think the thread should be called. ''The USAs involvement in WW2 in Europe is overrated''

Paraphrasing a quote from Stalin ''Britain gave time, America gave money, Russia gave blood''

Russia won the war. That's fact.

But they couldn't of done it with Americas cash and later the involvement of the US military.

OH and France did do exceptionally poorly.

They were cowards and didn't strike when they should have and when the war came they got spanked by superior tactics.

ChocolateGork wrote:I think the thread should be called. ''The USAs involvement in WW2 in Europe is overrated''

Paraphrasing a quote from Stalin ''Britain gave time, America gave money, Russia gave blood''

Russia won the war. That's fact.

But they couldn't of done it with Americas cash and later the involvement of the US military.

OH and France did do exceptionally poorly.

They were cowards and didn't strike when they should have and when the war came they got spanked by superior tactics.

The USSR defeated Germany. They didn't win the war.

Those cheeky Brits seem to think they had something to do with it.

A Pan Am 727 waiting for start clearance in Munich overheard the following:

Lufthansa (in German): "Ground, what is our start clearance time?"
Ground (in English): "If you want an answer you must speak in English."
Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany. Why must I speak English?"
Unknown voice from another plane (in a British accent): "Because you lost the bloody war!"

I'm sure this was actually much funnier in the 60's and 70's when British and German combat aviators were still active in the aviation community in large numbers.

ChocolateGork wrote:I think the thread should be called. ''The USAs involvement in WW2 in Europe is overrated''

Paraphrasing a quote from Stalin ''Britain gave time, America gave money, Russia gave blood''

Russia won the war. That's fact.

But they couldn't of done it with Americas cash and later the involvement of the US military.

OH and France did do exceptionally poorly.

They were cowards and didn't strike when they should have and when the war came they got spanked by superior tactics.

The French Government were cowards. The French people were not.

I think the impression that the Marine Corps is "Old Fashioned" really has nothing to do with them using old stuff, it's just that the Army is constantly rushing into new things and buying things that are radically different (Zippered battle fatigues come to mind. Everyone else uses buttons) from what the Marines use.

Although, you still see Marines sporting ALICE rucksacks, Vietnam-era web gear, m40 gas masks and the occasional M16A1 rifle, so I could see where the impression would come from.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I think the impression that the Marine Corps is "Old Fashioned" really has nothing to do with them using old stuff

The Royal Marine's are pretty old fashioned, they issued me this body armour before I went to Helmand province.

mattyrm wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I think the impression that the Marine Corps is "Old Fashioned" really has nothing to do with them using old stuff

The Royal Marine's are pretty old fashioned, they issued me this body armour before I went to Helmand province.

Looks like you need to work on your lower body there...

Nah, he spends most of his time riding around on a horse.

I weep for the horse.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I think the impression that the Marine Corps is "Old Fashioned" really has nothing to do with them using old stuff, it's just that the Army is constantly rushing into new things and buying things that are radically different (Zippered battle fatigues come to mind. Everyone else uses buttons) from what the Marines use.

Although, you still see Marines sporting ALICE rucksacks, Vietnam-era web gear, m40 gas masks and the occasional M16A1 rifle, so I could see where the impression would come from.

You haven't seen a Fleet Marine wearing ALICE gear
Since the early 2000's, when they received the ILBEs that are head and shoulders above the Army MOLLE ruck, the M40 is just now being replaced in ALL services by the M50; who got them first? Ding ding! The Marines. You won't find an M16A1 in the hands of active Marines because it's incapable of stabilizing the standard S109 round. You will however find M16A3s and A4s in the hands of Marines because they chose not to give up their rifles for carbines citing reliability issues in USMC testing. Soon you'll find at least one grunt in every Fleet Infantry squad with his grubby hands on an M27. A leap (a logical and frankly belated) forward to improve the M4 only SOCOM has made previously. Marines are also carrying the M32 grenade launcher, rather than waiting an hoping for the XM-25 to finally be ready. Like I said Marines using old equipment is a myth, they use what works until they find something better, then field it. Rather than finding something new but half as good, fielding it, making improvements and ending up with the same or often less capability than the equipment you replaced...but in new colors(Army).

AustonT wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I think the impression that the Marine Corps is "Old Fashioned" really has nothing to do with them using old stuff, it's just that the Army is constantly rushing into new things and buying things that are radically different (Zippered battle fatigues come to mind. Everyone else uses buttons) from what the Marines use.

Although, you still see Marines sporting ALICE rucksacks, Vietnam-era web gear, m40 gas masks and the occasional M16A1 rifle, so I could see where the impression would come from.

You haven't seen a Fleet Marine wearing ALICE gear
Since the early 2000's, when they received the ILBEs that are head and shoulders above the Army MOLLE ruck, the M40 is just now being replaced in ALL services by the M50; who got them first? Ding ding! The Marines. You won't find an M16A1 in the hands of active Marines because it's incapable of stabilizing the standard S109 round. You will however find M16A3s and A4s in the hands of Marines because they chose not to give up their rifles for carbines citing reliability issues in USMC testing. Soon you'll find at least one grunt in every Fleet Infantry squad with his grubby hands on an M27. A leap (a logical and frankly belated) forward to improve the M4 only SOCOM has made previously. Marines are also carrying the M32 grenade launcher, rather than waiting an hoping for the XM-25 to finally be ready. Like I said Marines using old equipment is a myth, they use what works until they find something better, then field it. Rather than finding something new but half as good, fielding it, making improvements and ending up with the same or often less capability than the equipment you replaced...but in new colors(Army).

...Sexy new colors.