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 Mannahnin wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Mannahnin, what do you think about this line from the BRB:

"Each section of the Aegis defence line must be placed in base contact with at least one other section."

For a moment I thought I misunderstood what a "section" is, due to English not being my first language, but the definition of it is "one of several components".
That would make the Quadgun a section of an ADL and thus it should be in base contact with another section.

That appears to be referring to the wall sections, as the preceding sentence says that the Aegis is comprised of "Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis defense line sections".

That is for the normal ADL, if you also purchase a Gun Emplacement, the ADL would then be comprised of "Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis defense line sections" and a Gun Emplacement.

Well, sure, but when we're talking about the "sections" of an ADL, in a sentence immediately following a listing of 4 long and 4 short sections, that's clearly in reference to the wall bits.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Well, sure, but when we're talking about the "sections" of an ADL, in a sentence immediately following a listing of 4 long and 4 short sections, that's clearly in reference to the wall bits.

Right.

They do not list anything else, because those options are not always included with the ADL.

If a Gun Emplacement is purchased then, logically, the ADL is comprised of Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis defense line sections and a Gun Emplacement.

I agree. I just think that based on how it's used, "sections" is a word used in reference to the wall.

placing a piece of terrain directly in front of a ADL, blocking all LoS from any angle is perfectly legal RAW (assuming non-narative placement of terrain), however it's still a douche move that shows two things: 1) you would lower yourself to nefarious means to win (also known as WAAC players) instead of winning based on pure skill/luck of the dice. Intentionally starting the game with an unfair advantage. And 2) You don't respect the opponent your playing enough to come into a game at equal standing, Actively searching for loopholes in the RAW for advantages.

modeling a model for an in-game advantage (such as making a Tervigon only 2" tall somehow to better guarantee Cover Saves) and calling "rule of cool" as your loophole and placing a weapon upgrade for a piece of terrain anywhere else but with the piece of terrain, just for an advantage are all methods of WAAC players. And unless you are lucky and find a group completely made of WAAC players, you'll quickly find yourself out of people wanting to play a game with you.

Honestly, if someone was playing you and they found a loop-hole that legally allowed them to force you to play a game and you could only bring 500 points yourself while your opponent could bring 1500, would you play that person at all if ever again? Why not? Because a WAAC player is a legal cheater and a Douche. Heck the part of the community that falls under WAAC are the corrupt businessmen of the world, legally breaking the law for their own gain.

it is a dick move to put terrain infront of the ADL. Even though its legal (if further than 3inches) i still call people out on that whether im playing or not because of the reasons you gave.
For the most part if something sounds sketchy i'll just go with it unless its giving my opponent an insane advantage, such as one guy who ran Necrons with warriors and wraiths (so he didnt need cover for the most part) tried to say that only a bought barricade gives me a 4+ cover - which nothing in the rulebook says that i must buy it for the 4+, only the 2+ for going to ground. When your army depends on cover saves and someone tries to jip you out of it, you tend to get pissed.

Also, modifying a models profile in any way that can benefit you is illegal. If its smaller than normal, thats illegal, if its bigger than normal, perfectly fine. Same goes for giving fliers a wicked tall stand so they can look over the entire board is illegal because its letting them look over things they normally couldnt.
EDIT: Only modifying thats legal is moving guns around if the codex doesnt state where they are exactly. Like any ork vehicle for instance, it doesnt say where it is or if its a turret so we can put it wherever we want.

The listing of the ADL states that two sections must be in base contact. So whos to say that the line isnt spread out to either side of the table. I see the add on gun as a peice that doesnt have to touch but by the pictures should be placed near. Logic would dictate that the gun would be close to at lease a part of the wall if not incorporated within it.
As for putting the gun up in terrain. I think that is ridiculous. Guardsmen built it and they would not be able to put it high in some ruins or away from a point where they could easily reach. The whole point of this ADL is its fast to set up by normal guardsmen. Use your logic, not your cheese.

 FullAuto wrote:
The listing of the ADL states that two sections must be in base contact. So whos to say that the line isnt spread out to either side of the table.

Please 2 read FAQs. It has to be one contiguous line.

 FullAuto wrote:
The listing of the ADL states that two sections must be in base contact. So whos to say that the line isnt spread out to either side of the table.

The FAQ. Since what, August?

Wow, this thread went a little crazy.

From what I can gather most are ruling that the add-on has to be placed within 2-3 inches of a section of your Aegis.

Seems fair enough to me.

A ruling that would be quite arbitrary, though

It's a shame that GW didn't clarify how it works when they clarified the ADL set up.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Wow, this thread went a little crazy.

From what I can gather most are ruling that the add-on has to be placed within 2-3 inches of a section of your Aegis.

Seems fair enough to me.

I don’t think there’s any real textual support for that, though. I think some folks are doing that out of a vague reasoning that it doesn’t specifically say where to put it, but it feels wrong to them to place it across the table.

I think there’s a slight ambiguity, but the best (and most conservative, so as to avoid taking undue advantage) way to play it is to make sure any added upgrades are placed in contact with the wall. I believe that’s what the evidence (including the FAQ, which uses the word “attached”) indicates anyway.

RAW = it can be placed anywhere in your deployment zone. There is no rule it has to be connected or base to base with the Aegis.

There are many good situations where you would not want it connected.

Firstborn wrote:
RAW = it can be placed anywhere in your deployment zone. There is no rule it has to be connected or base to base with the Aegis.

There are many good situations where you would not want it connected.

Yea, that is not true at all.

At best it is ambiguous, and we should take the least advantageous interpretation, which is to place it with the Defense line.

Firstborn wrote:
RAW = it can be placed anywhere in your deployment zone. There is no rule it has to be connected or base to base with the Aegis.

There are many good situations where you would not want it connected.

Not true, RAW is at best ambiguous, and there is the FAQ which talks about things being attached that you are handily ignoring

Firstborn wrote:
RAW = it can be placed anywhere in your deployment zone. There is no rule it has to be connected or base to base with the Aegis.
There are many good situations where you would not want it connected.

There is also no rule that forbids me to bring a flamethrower to melt your army

RAW: It has to be placed attached to your ADL. There is no rule that allows it to be placed anywhere you like.
On the other hand, there is a rule that says each section of the ADL (which would include upgrades) must be placed in base-contact.

All those people thinking the rule says "wall-sections" got it wrong.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Also, modifying a models profile in any way that can benefit you is illegal. If its smaller than normal, thats illegal, if its bigger than normal, perfectly fine. Same goes for giving fliers a wicked tall stand so they can look over the entire board is illegal because its letting them look over things they normally couldnt.
EDIT: Only modifying thats legal is moving guns around if the codex doesnt state where they are exactly. Like any ork vehicle for instance, it doesnt say where it is or if its a turret so we can put it wherever we want.

Models profile gives it advantage and an disadvantage. High flying flyer can see everything but everybody also see the flyer.

Modelling for advantage is a double edged sword.

I go with rule of cool.

Kangodo wrote:

Firstborn wrote:
RAW = it can be placed anywhere in your deployment zone. There is no rule it has to be connected or base to base with the Aegis.
There are many good situations where you would not want it connected.

There is also no rule that forbids me to bring a flamethrower to melt your army

RAW: It has to be placed attached to your ADL. There is no rule that allows it to be placed anywhere you like.
On the other hand, there is a rule that says each section of the ADL (which would include upgrades) must be placed in base-contact.

All those people thinking the rule says "wall-sections" got it wrong.

" (which would include upgrades)" is your interpretation. A quadgun or comms relay is not a section.

RAW = it can be placed anywhere in your deployment zone. There is no rule or FAQ that says you can't do it, and from a tactical perspective it makes
sense. There is no logical reason as to why the gun or relay would need to be connected to the wall.

Same thing with the Bastion. You don't have to place the gun or relay on the top of it. They can go anywhere in your deployment zone.

Heck, by that thought process it's an upgrade not a unit, so what's limiting it to your deployment zone?

Or maybe RAW isn't as clear cut as you're pretending? Nah, that can't be it.

RAW states a QG is attached to the ADL. Please show tht this isnt true, with some rules as per the tenets of this forum

Firstborn wrote:
" (which would include upgrades)" is your interpretation. A quadgun or comms relay is not a section.

"A quadgun or comms relay is not a section." is your interpretation.
According to the English language, a section is "a piece" or "One of several components".

When we acknowledge that section is synonymous for a piece, the rule would read: "All pieces must be in base contact with another piece."

RAW = it can be placed anywhere in your deployment zone. There is no rule or FAQ that says you can't do it, and from a tactical perspective it makes
sense. There is no logical reason as to why the gun or relay would need to be connected to the wall.

No logical reason if you ignore the RAW.
And even if those rules weren't there, you still have to find a rule that allows you to do it!

Same thing with the Bastion. You don't have to place the gun or relay on the top of it. They can go anywhere in your deployment zone.

Except that the BRB states that the gun is on top of the Bastion.

But I don't want to go in this discussion again.
-Each section must be in base contact with another section.
-A section is synonym for a piece.

Kangodo wrote:

Same thing with the Bastion. You don't have to place the gun or relay on the top of it. They can go anywhere in your deployment zone.

Except that the BRB states that the gun is on top of the Bastion.

Odd, I don't see where this is written. I do see the picture of the Bastion in its "data sheet" which clearly shows the Comm Relay next to the Bastion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

But I don't want to go in this discussion again.
-Each section must be in base contact with another section.
-A section is synonym for a piece.

Each ADL section must be in contact with another section, which is right after the composition (up to 4 short/long ADL sections). Context says they are referring to the ADL sections.

Also remember that Fortifications can be placed anywhere in your table half, not just your deployment zone (BRB 120).

I don't know why you'd want to put your ADL where the enemy could take equal advantage of it.....but it's still allowed.

 Happyjew wrote:
Each ADL section must be in contact with another section, which is right after the composition (up to 4 short/long ADL sections). Context says they are referring to the ADL sections.

That is because the gun is only a part of the ADL, if you purchase the option for it.