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I had it pointed out to make a slight amendment to my last post: I don't want to suggest that Dakka is "anti GW". Merely that there are other forums out there that only support positive GW material, where independent thought against GW is squashed. Dakka allows us to voice our opinions, regardless of whether they're positive, negative, or constructive criticism. Apologies for putting out a semi-inaccurate post.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I had it pointed out to make a slight amendment to my last post: I don't want to suggest that Dakka is "anti GW". Merely that there are other forums out there that only support positive GW material, where independent thought against GW is squashed. Dakka allows us to voice our opinions, regardless of whether they're positive, negative, or constructive criticism. Apologies for putting out a semi-inaccurate post.

And that's how it should be. Pushing out North Korea-style propaganda and squashing any complaints just pisses the people who have legitimate complaints off. I've seen a few forums like that, with mods that lock threads and ban anyone who doesn't paint a rosy picture, and I'm glad Dakka isn't like that.

Yup. And that's all I meant by my first post. But, I was at work. I had it pointed out how it came out, so I let the person know what I really intended, and added it to the thread. I notice he hasn't replied back to me though. I'm wwwwwwwwaiting...

One thing that I have noticed - the longer I go without buying GW stuff, the less of an urge I seem to have to get any more.

I... think part of the problem for GW is that they used to have folks that quit the H-H-Hobby for a while, then come back.

Now... I think that a lot of the folks that quit these days are staying away.

There is less reason to come back now - mostly, I think, because of the increasingly insane prices, but I suspect that the rules do not help.

Also... there are now alternatives - my WHFB group has gone to KoW. There is an Infinity group going, and there is a Deadzone game that is on nights that I am unavailable, dammit.

The Auld Grump - still part of the reason.

I've certainly found the biggest obstacle between GW and my money are the other companies out there showing them up.
If I want a game, there are plenty of companies doing better games.
If I want pretty models to paint there are plenty of companies making better models.
If I want some cool fluff... we'll that's an area they are still ahead in but man I haven't been excited about Black Library at all recently so that's going downhill fast imo and other companies are picking up the slack.

The biggest obstacle keeping me from getting back into 40K or WHFB is the cost to get the current rulebooks. I have points worth of armies already but when I look at the total cost of purchasing all the books I'd need for either or both systems and then realize all of the minis, paint, brushes, etc. that I won't be getting due to the opportunity cost of spending a large chunk of my hobby budget on rulebooks it's easy to stay away.

I constantly think of starting up again but the combination of high prices and crap rules makes me change my mind. But I still every so often will see a figure or look at an old White Dwarf and think of playing again. Just when I look at the prices to do so or the cost of the books or even just having a cool idea that turns out to not be viable because the game isn't balanced, I shelve it again. I'm in a weird position where I know I could get games if I did play again, but it's not worth the hassle of dealing with GW and their outright lack of care. Not when I also play Warmachine with a friendly group of people and have a company that is supportive.

Maybe someday if GW gets a clue, because I can feel the urge to play rising.

FW's offerings and Knights still make me breathe heavily, but I've learned to control those urges.

If the rules become better, or the prices drop significantly, I'd probably hop on some of that plastic, but until then, my money is being spent elsewhere.

I can get a whole faction fleet of Firestorm Armada for the price of a Knight. We're talking tournament sized, competitive fleet for a little over $100CAD.

That discussion earlier seemed fun. I don't know what they expected with a thread about not buying GW products.

I still don't own the model for Farsight, and Ebay's not throwing me any bones :/ Having said that, £30 for a single model means I'll remain a part of the reason.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
I still don't own the model for Farsight, and Ebay's not throwing me any bones :/ Having said that, £30 for a single model means I'll remain a part of the reason.

It's a crap model, too. Two guys at my local store have one, and both have had him break in several places on them from just regular table use. He's finecast, with just a single tiny little foot there between him and whatever your base him on. He's kind of hard to pin with the angle he's at, too.

Not to mention his flimsy-as-hell sword.

I had an email response from GW investor relations saying that they don't apologise about the price and that they don't go online because of trolls, so I'm part of it too.

I really don't want to be, but GW are forcing me to not buy their stuff through pricing me out and being arrogant donkey-caves

 Davylove21 wrote:
I had an email response from GW investor relations saying that they don't apologise about the price and that they don't go online because of trolls, so I'm part of it too.

I really don't want to be, but GW are forcing me to not buy their stuff through pricing me out and being arrogant donkey-caves

I forget the quote but I know they were quoted at one point for spouting some bullcrap about how their products are worth the price they're advertised at. Same like I recall a quote about their "one click collections" with $0 savings that said the same thing. They are worth full retail price, so any savings would diminish the value of the product.

If you have been out for 5 or more years you are not part of the problem. You haven't been in the equation so long you are not a factor.

If you jumped to another game system because you like it better, you are not part of the problem. You discovered a new game that better suits you - probably because you never knew other games existed. GW brought you in, it was your first game and you enjoyed it but you grew as a player , discovered there is a whole world of other games and found you liked them better. GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day.

If you dumped 7th edition without ever having played a game you aren't part of the problem. You are just having classic nerd rage and there is no helping people like you. Your leaving the hobby was inevitable.

If you can't afford the game you aren't part of the problem. You're just broke and these games aren't for you.

We wrote:
If you have been out for 5 or more years you are not part of the problem. You haven't been in the equation so long you are not a factor.

If you jumped to another game system because you like it better, you are not part of the problem. You discovered a new game that better suits you - probably because you never knew other games existed. GW brought you in, it was your first game and you enjoyed it but you grew as a player , discovered there is a whole world of other games and found you liked them better. GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day.

If you dumped 7th edition without ever having played a game you aren't part of the problem. You are just having classic nerd rage and there is no helping people like you. Your leaving the hobby was inevitable.

If you can't afford the game you aren't part of the problem. You're just broke and these games aren't for you.

Ah yes everyone who dislikes GW is a hater or poor or a whiner. Can't be logical reasons.

We wrote:

GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day.

Unless they change significantly, more than likely not. Evidence suggests this is true for others as well.

You are just having classic nerd rage and there is no helping people like you. Your leaving the hobby was inevitable.

Good to see we're having a rational discussion. Obviously the problem is nerd rage. How could we all be so naive.

Thank you for your valuable input to this discussion.

If you can't afford the game you aren't part of the problem. You're just broke and these games aren't for you.

Oh that's right, if you're poor, these games just aren't for you. Again, truly insightful.

I've started playing, but I don't buy directly from GW, I've gotten all my minis from Ebay and secondhand retailers, while I have yet to buy any paint or tools from them.
Case in point: Tau skin? Simple, instead of buying Russ Grey, use P3 Underbelly blue.

Exalted Blacksails!

We wrote:
odds are you'll be back one day.

What odds are you offering? I could make a packet.

If you dumped 7th edition without ever having played a game you aren't part of the problem. You are just having classic nerd rage and there is no helping people like you.

'Cos everyone knows it's impossible to know you dislike crazy new rules by reading their words in a, y'know, book.

Also, says the classic white knight.

Your leaving the hobby was inevitable.

We didn't leave the hobby. We just stopped buying and playing one or two games in the hobby.

If you can't afford the game you aren't part of the problem. You're just broke and these games aren't for you.

Spam deleted.

reds8n

Nowdays im only browsing second hand stuff trying to find bargains...

We wrote:
If you have been out for 5 or more years you are not part of the problem. You haven't been in the equation so long you are not a factor.

If you jumped to another game system because you like it better, you are not part of the problem. You discovered a new game that better suits you - probably because you never knew other games existed. GW brought you in, it was your first game and you enjoyed it but you grew as a player , discovered there is a whole world of other games and found you liked them better. GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day.

If you dumped 7th edition without ever having played a game you aren't part of the problem. You are just having classic nerd rage and there is no helping people like you. Your leaving the hobby was inevitable.

If you can't afford the game you aren't part of the problem. You're just broke and these games aren't for you.

Some of the worst argued points that I have ever seen - since the proper response to each of those is - 'Uhm, that is why I am part of the reason'.

If you stopped playing the game five years ago and never came back or even came back, and left again - then you are part of the reason.

If you jumped to another game system because you like it better, and feel that GW kinda sucks at making rules these days then you are part of the reason

If you are not willing to pay GW prices but are perfectly willing to spend your money elsewhere - then you are part of the reason.

The problem is that GW's sales are in freefall. That people are jumping away from GW games, and playing something else instead.

Anybody that is still buying tabletop gaming products but not GW products - are part of the reason. Arguing otherwise is... well, kind of silly, really.

Each of those customers are expending moneys that are not going to GW - and they are each part of the reason.

The Auld Grump

I've been playing 40K for about 5 odd years now, well, was, and amassed quite a collection in that time, not unlike others. As you can see below, I have the models and time to play 40K should I choose - not unlike others.

However, I choose not to play 40K because of a number of reasons. While I don't buy GW products partially because of pricing, and partially because I don't wish to support the company due to its horrid attitude. But that's just it. I, like many others, choose not to play or buy GW games and products. No matter the reason, that makes all of us part of the problem.

#We'reallthereason.

Oh, and thanks for the tip about the Farsight model SRSFACE. That's a few quid saved for me

 jonolikespie wrote:
I've certainly found the biggest obstacle between GW and my money are the other companies out there showing them up.
If I want a game, there are plenty of companies doing better games.

Oh so correct.

If I want pretty models to paint there are plenty of companies making better models.

Sort of agree. GW still have great minis, but for the price and VALUE, other companies seem to be better.

If I want some cool fluff... we'll that's an area they are still ahead in but man I haven't been excited about Black Library at all recently so that's going downhill fast imo and other companies are picking up the slack.

Disagree. GW doesn't have great fluff anymore. It's the same fluff for over 25 years. Adding a few sentences or paragraphs, doesn't make for great fluff.

Davor wrote:


Disagree. GW doesn't have great fluff anymore. It's the same fluff for over 25 years. Adding a few sentences or paragraphs, doesn't make for great fluff.

I'd have to agree with this. After each major campaign a huge reset button is pressed. Chaos is driven back to the warp, but barely. The forces of the Imperium are victorious but now must continue their ever vigilant fight against the forces of Chaos and the Heresy. A planet might be destroyed or trade hands - but in general nothing moves forward. What's the point, other than total war?

We wrote:
If you have been out for 5 or more years you are not part of the problem. You haven't been in the equation so long you are not a factor.

If you jumped to another game system because you like it better, you are not part of the problem. You discovered a new game that better suits you - probably because you never knew other games existed. GW brought you in, it was your first game and you enjoyed it but you grew as a player , discovered there is a whole world of other games and found you liked them better. GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day.

If you dumped 7th edition without ever having played a game you aren't part of the problem. You are just having classic nerd rage and there is no helping people like you. Your leaving the hobby was inevitable.

If you can't afford the game you aren't part of the problem. You're just broke and these games aren't for you.

Wow, that was complete elitist BS.

Please tell us poor, nerd raging, common fools what is the real reason GW is failing.

Quite frankly the real reason are the massively over inflated prices, lack of care, lack of, well, everything....

But of course I am but a poor nerd raging and the HMS GW is not plunging into oblivion and is most certainly not headed by blind idiots.

No no, they are doing amazingly well and all whom say otherwise are just poor underclass less-than-man peasants whom have no lives and those finacial reports and sales figures from around the world are all blasphemous lies made by those haters and thy are not to be trusted. Only Kirby is right.
Oh and those other companies like PP and such? They are nothing but pale copies of GW's might and grace whom will not last the yea. Indeed tat is if they even exist at all, as we all know that Kirby does not belive in their existence and as such these other companies are nothing but anti GW propoganda lies and GW's products are amazingly well priced and do not resemble toddlers toys.

We wrote:
GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day

That is the problem though; there's less and less reason to go back. I get all of my gaming fixes elsewhere for much less.

Herzlos wrote:

We wrote:
GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day

That is the problem though; there's less and less reason to go back. I get all of my gaming fixes elsewhere for much less.

Yeah.. if GW is not a game for me then whatever, but when GW's hemorrhaging sales then GW should be bending over backwards to make their game appeal to me.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

We wrote:
GW games just aren't for you and odds are you'll be back one day

That is the problem though; there's less and less reason to go back. I get all of my gaming fixes elsewhere for much less.

Yeah.. if GW is not a game for me then whatever, but when GW's hemorrhaging sales then GW should be bending over backwards to make their game appeal to me.

They're just shedding the dirty poor people. The game will be much better without them.

I can just picture those high-level executives stopping by a Warhammer store in their Lamborghinis, buying a single plastic Space Marine Captain to put on their desk as a status symbol for all their subordinates to see.

In fact, Warhammers should simply get it over with and hang up a sign on the door, saying "No peasants allowed". Would be much quicker than these endless, clumsy policies and relentless price bumps.

Redacted. I was going to heckle a poster on this page, but I will not.