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You've misunderstood his point, I fear - he was agreeing that "Asians make the nest engineers" is a prejudicial statement.

As for "German Orks", well, a lot of the early 40k Orks did look like they're raided the Wehrmacht section of the army surplus shop - stahlhelms, greatcoats and jackboots, "potato-masher" stick grenades, riding Kettenrads. Look at the early Stormboyz models - and their unit logo - for a particularly tasteless example. Then there's the people who painted their Necromunda Redemptionist models in white robes. And yes, that particular form of clothing is originally based on Spanish penitents in capirote hoods, but I don't think that was what was being referenced there …


My observation is that a lot of gaming in the US - at least, that undertaken by the sort of people who post on internet fora - is against strangers, or at least, whoever shows up first, in a games shop? That might explain the preponderance of "weirdos", if you're playing games against people you wouldn't otherwise have anything to do with. All my gaming is against friends, or at least people I've talked to a couple of times first, so I weed out the ones who I'm not going to get on with. I don't think there's anything special about "40k gamers" compared to other communities, because I don't know any "40k gamers" - they all play 40k and X-Wing, Warmachine, infinity or whatnot.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
You've misunderstood his point, I fear - he was agreeing that "Asians make the nest engineers" is a prejudicial statement.

As for "German Orks", well, a lot of the early 40k Orks did look like they're raided the Wehrmacht section of the army surplus shop - stahlhelms, greatcoats and jackboots, "potato-masher" stick grenades, riding Kettenrads. Look at the early Stormboyz models - and their unit logo - for a particularly tasteless example. Then there's the people who painted their Necromunda Redemptionist models in white robes. And yes, that particular form of clothing is originally based on Spanish penitents in capirote hoods, but I don't think that was what was being referenced there …


My observation is that a lot of gaming in the US - at least, that undertaken by the sort of people who post on internet fora - is against strangers, or at least, whoever shows up first, in a games shop? That might explain the preponderance of "weirdos", if you're playing games against people you wouldn't otherwise have anything to do with. All my gaming is against friends, or at least people I've talked to a couple of times first, so I weed out the ones who I'm not going to get on with. I don't think there's anything special about "40k gamers" compared to other communities, because I don't know any "40k gamers" - they all play 40k and X-Wing, Warmachine, infinity or whatnot.

I think he was making the (common, for obvious reasons) assumption that for something to be "bigoted" you had to be making negative prejudices. You don't, by the technical definition of bigotry. And you also don't have to be making statements that are necessarily based on incorrect data - you just have to be applying as an absolute certainty to an individual something that might be a stereotype. The term has definitely been somewhat weaponized, to the hilarious point where you have people making bigoted statements about how if someone is a particular ethnic group then they MUST be bigoted...but it does have a dictionary definition.

"Otherwise stating something like asian make the best engineers could be considered bigoted. Same with Jews holding the highest number of noble prizes. Or Norwegians dominating cross-country skiing. "

And you're definitely right about meeting a greater preponderance of weirdos when you're meeting up at a group location to play or participate in a hobby that's somewhat out of a social norm. Because you're not likely to get the people who already have established friend groups, and you're then likely to meet people who don't have established friend groups...because they are a bit weird.

But I'd argue that the nature and imagery of the imperium combined with the high focus on purity and breeding of space marines does lend 40k a greater appeal than other common nerd-settings to one particular type of less than fun to interact with subset of the greater weirdo/douchebag community.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, it didn't. And I guess that's kind of the point I was trying to make - I've seen the "person who interacts so much on the internet that he doesn't understand Internet Humor /= Real World Humor" that you were talking about. This wasn't it.

Yeah, I know that sort and it doesn't sound like the type you had to deal with. It sounds like he was just quite obviously a scumbag, and somehow deluded himself into believing this sort of behavior would be acceptable because you guys would be 'cool with it'. I can take a shock-joke as much as the next guy, I might even find it humorous if it's creative, but there's a time and a place- and there's a degree to which a person can only make so many jokes before I start actually questioning their thought process to collect so many of them and wondering why they find it so much funnier than any other adult with a twisted sense of humor would.

I made a statement elsewhere about those people who bubble themselves in online and then seem to be confused and shocked when they realize that people out in the real world aren't all like the people in their little bubble. Maybe I referenced it earlier here, or elsewhere, I forget. I'm pretty sure you can find it if you look through my posts- it's been quite a day and I've knocked out a lot of extensive emails and such, so I do apologize for not being able to produce it.

the_scotsman wrote:
But sometimes you do deal with people making jokes maybe not quite that bad, but in the neighborhood, and they are obviously on the spectrum and do warrant a second chance, depending on the circumstance.

At the core of most all of my horror stories about "That Guy", the worst offenders in my memory tend to be a bit off or at least they're on the spectrum somewhere. It is sad that whatever conditions brought them up, apparently no adult or older sibling explained to them- in whatever means were effective- that this sort of thing was not okay. Many times I will find them blissfully unaware of the level of offensiveness of what they've said, or sometimes they even struggle to find the issue with someone else being upset. But, usually explaining to them in basic terms: "People don't like hearing stuff like that, and if they complain about it you're gonna get told to leave and you can't come back any more" tends to resolve it.

And if we're talking in terms of 'making our gaming communities better', then it does take some effort to coach the less socially savvy into being more discrete in their language. It's not easy, but I have found that even the mentally ill ones are more responsive to that than they are a harsh lashing out from someone else.

And if they blow it off and keep doing it, you just tell them to hit the door and don't come back and be done with it.

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman 761573 10102829 wrote:

We at one point had a pimply dude in a trenchcoat playing with a steel legion guard army whose army had swastikas on the side of the tanks and on a couple banners, and his opponent abruptly ended the game turn one when he shot with his bane wolf and yelled "gas the jews!"

Everything is possible through the magic of people who get very, very little social interaction.

Ah that kind of a dude, I have heard stories about one of the vets "germanorks" army. Doesn't sound very bigoted though, unless the definition changed since last time I was at school.

As far as Swastikas go on stuff, that'd be an easy no-go at any place I play unless it was something specifically for historical accuracy. And even then, the guideline is to use those models with the utmost discretion and understand that you could be asked to put them away. We fortunately only have a couple of people who play the historical games, and they make it a point to ensure that they avoid the deliberate symbols and stick instead to crosses or something less overt.

I think it is a cultur perception thing. In europe and probably the US, the swastika is a vile symbol and using it as a joke is done at ones own peril. On the other hand in Asia the perception of the same symbol is different. And I don't mean the solar happines symbol, I mean the actual nazi thing. Running around with it in Vietnam or Japan.

On the other hand if someone would plop an IG army in full regalia of the 16th Infantry Division from 1937, most westerners wouldn't even understand why it can be problematic.

Yea, modern raping and pillaging. zaibatsu at it's best!

What do family owned corporations have to do with anything?