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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Bharring wrote:
You'd be surprised just how many times my non-melee squads have beaten people to death in melee.

Being a melee squad isn't about being better at melee than shooting. It's about being better at melee than the guy in front of you.

That said, a PF on a Tac squad is not a competitive choice.

Oh absolutely. But sometimes, having the squad sergeant pointing out a target for the squad's plasma cannon with a massive oversized boxing glove just looks so cool.

Then model a slightly bigger fist. Or a regular fist. It isn't hard.

But I want a power fist's aesthetic. Why should I have to give up on that because you have an issue with it? I'll play PL. You play points. Get over it.

"I want to paint my models blue" "Then paint them red. Or black. It isn't hard."
"I want a plasma gun." "Then model a flamer. Or a bolter. It isn't hard."
"I want a Captain." Then model a Lieutenant. Or a Tactical Marine. It isn't hard."

If you can't tell that a slightly bigger fist or regular fist are not power fists, I don't know what to say.
I want a power fist. Not a "slightly bigger fist" or a "regular fist".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
That difference was the crux of the story. If you can't understand that, you won't understand why many of us play this game.

It's Slayer-Fan. His record speaks for itself.

 insaniak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Power Fists aren't an aesthetic choice, and never WERE.

They are if you're choosing them because they look cool on the models you're building, rather than for their in-game effect.

Which is how a very large number of casual players design their armies.

And yet, if that power fist sergeant is in melee I bet they attack with it and don't say " it's just aesthetic, I'm not actually using it". If you want to use the rules then pay the points.

People have been suggesting unit based points for 40k for ages, because the bookkeeping for the minutiae can be frustrating. GW obviously heard that and made what they asked for, unit based pricing in the form of PL, now does it still have issues, yes, but it's far easier to grab your models and play with.

Having wargear and the minutia with their own individual costs makes the system more granular, but, for some of us, it's too granular.

I've been designing my own RPG for a few years, and I've run across the same issue. At first I tried accounting for every little thing, but the game because a mass of tables and numbers, which would work for a certain feel of game, but I realized that it's not what I wanted, so I've made the game far less granular. This hasn't stopped me from doing what I could before he game world works the same, but the out of game side has become easier to manage, making it easier for me to get new players who are invested in the stories, not the numerical benefits.

This hopefully explains my personal preference for PL over points, even though I've also played this game for decades with only points. For me, PL simply makes the out of game side easier to manage. I'm not fussing over being 1 point over the game limit, which in a 500 point game is 0.2% of the list, and in a 2,000 point game 1 point is 0.05%! I don't want to be pouring over my list because I'm (even talking 5 points over) at the most 1% off my numbers.

This isn't an accounting game, it's about epic battles in the future with terminator-esque robots, superhumans in power armour, and any number of alien beings, weilding power so vast that it's almost incomprehensible, and I'm not going to waste my time, and energy counting the bullets my traitor guard have on hand.

 Peregrine wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Power Fists aren't an aesthetic choice, and never WERE.

They are if you're choosing them because they look cool on the models you're building, rather than for their in-game effect.

Which is how a very large number of casual players design their armies.

And yet, if that power fist sergeant is in melee I bet they attack with it and don't say " it's just aesthetic, I'm not actually using it". If you want to use the rules then pay the points.

If I was playing points. I'm not. I'm playing PL.

In points, I need to consider the effects of me taking that aesthetic power fist, because they cost an amount unto themselves.
In PL, I can take what looks cool because it won't affect how my list is built.

I don't care about the in game effects if it works or not. If you're going to be that anal about it, I wouldn't use it. My main concern is being able to take the units I want to, and being able to built said units in a way that looks cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blndmage wrote:
This isn't an accounting game, it's about epic battles in the future with terminator-esque robots, superhumans in power armour, and any number of alien beings, weilding power so vast that it's almost incomprehensible, and I'm not going to waste my time, and energy counting the bullets my traitor guard have on hand.

But don't you know, if you don't care about 40k in the most detailed, strategic and "balanced" way possible, you shouldn't play the game?

Not many people know that "fact", but Peregrine and Slayer-Fan are here to prove us all wrong in our misguided assumption that we don't need that to have fun. /sarcasm/

I love how we're 18 months deep into 8th edition and this topic is still capable puking out 6 pages in 24 hours every other week.

Points is the more balanced option of the two points systems. The more balance you have the more fun everyone has no matter what game mode or mission you play.

My popcorn is getting cold and needs more .

I think this has been circling the drain for long enough, by this point.

It's s quite clear that some people have some strong feelings about how best the game should work, and that's fine. As I said earlier in the thread, the world would be a boring place if we all thought the same.

At the end of the day, use the system that works best for you, and we'll all do just fine.