Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

From today’s Thousand Son’s faction focus: 4CP for a Brigade detachment.

Aash wrote:
From today’s Thousand Son’s faction focus: 4CP for a Brigade detachment.

The change to the Supreme Command detachment is very welcome, although we need a little more information to see the full implications. I am curious how other named characters will work in (for me, will Azrael be a Supreme Commander?). It will mean you have to commit when list building and you want a major character. He is your Warlord with all that goes with that. We still have to see how Outriders and Vanguards work out. If they work out?

And the full details on the Supreme Command detachment.

Which has a Lord of War spot... sorta.

The change to the Supreme Command detachment certainly removes one of the aspects of Soup that we saw: adding powerful HQs from a different Codex to an army. We saw this with Smash Captains, Ahriman and DPs, Dawn Eagle Jet Captains and others. Now, if you really want to add Smash Captains to support your Knights in addition to having to spend CP on a Detachment you are probably looking at at least a Patrol just to get two of your Souped power-HQs. I think its a positive thing for list design. Brigades will, I think, either have your Warlord or be affiliated with your Supreme Command. Will we see them? I expect for AM, Orks and GSC. Space Marines might if they really want more than 3 HQ slots and full CPs.

Fortification is good for those with their own terrain piece

That's quite a leak! Too bad that page didn't have the Vanguard and Outrider. Auxiliary Detachment of a single unit costing 2 CP makes sense.

As a complete aside, are there any Fortifications that are HQs?

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
That's quite a leak! Too bad that page didn't have the Vanguard and Outrider. Auxiliary Detachment of a single unit costing 2 CP makes sense.

As a complete aside, are there any Fortifications that are HQs?

Vanguard outruder are all 3CP

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
That's quite a leak! Too bad that page didn't have the Vanguard and Outrider. Auxiliary Detachment of a single unit costing 2 CP makes sense.

As a complete aside, are there any Fortifications that are HQs?

Other detachments



Good question - not that I am aware of - yet.

Specialist detachments are all 3CP, and there is no soup penalty unless I missed it somewhere.

Mr Morden,

Great finds! Guess the book is out there now.

I will update the first post of this thread to capture all that.

No Command Benefits for Vanguard and Spearhead - to be expected given the CP article but good to be confirmed.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Mr Morden,

Great finds! Guess the book is out there now.

I will update the first post of this thread to capture all that.

No Command Benefits for Vanguard and Spearhead - to be expected given the CP article but good to be confirmed.

Whole book here
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/789637.page

For those who didn't notice, the Air Wing detachment is conspicuously absent.

 Mr Morden wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Mr Morden,

Great finds! Guess the book is out there now.

I will update the first post of this thread to capture all that.

No Command Benefits for Vanguard and Spearhead - to be expected given the CP article but good to be confirmed.

Whole book here
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/789637.page

Nuked link. I suspect that was rather too much of a leak for the admins.

 alextroy wrote:
For those who didn't notice, the Air Wing detachment is conspicuously absent.

That's weird. I'd have MUCH rather the planes get pulled off of Patrol and Battalion and moved to their own thing.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Specialist detachments are all 3CP, and there is no soup penalty unless I missed it somewhere.

No penalty as such. Detachment penalties are enough in my opinion based on the removal of air wing and change to supreme. That was the most abusive soup. Anything more would have really punished CSM / Daemons.

I really don't understand why specialist detachments should not be the main warlord detachment (the free one). Of course it would advantage some armies/build, but the same way "standard" detachments advantage armies with the best/cheapest troops. And it would allow for highly thematic lists...

It's really a miss in my book, but something that can be easily houseruled so it's not that bad I guess.

 IronSlug wrote:
I really don't understand why specialist detachments should not be the main warlord detachment (the free one). Of course it would advantage some armies/build, but the same way "standard" detachments advantage armies with the best/cheapest troops. And it would allow for highly thematic lists...

It's really a miss in my book, but something that can be easily houseruled so it's not that bad I guess.

While I am ok with losing a few cp to run my deathwing without any greenwing for example, I do have a sneaky suspicion that some special characters that lend themselves to certain specialist detachments (belial- vanguard, sammael - outrider etc) will eventually be given cp refund abilities in new codexes ( though i'd probably prefer if it wasn't a full refund like the warlord, maybe half rounding up or something otherwise it completely derails the point of specialist detachments costing cp in exchange for swapping out the troops requirement ).

One thing I very much like about the system is that, yes, while troops units are not as important as in 8th, the cp cost for the specialist detachments still means there is a decision to be made about running one rather than it being an automatic choice and this is not something I think they should abandon lightly.

I mean after all my deathwing army in 8th had 3cp for battleforged, 1 for vanguard and possibly 1 for outrider if i took ravenwing as well. Thats 5 total. Considering deathwing assault is 2 or 3 depending, it really just did not work at all. now however, at 2000 pts I will have 12-3 = 9 cp for a vanguard, and then just plonk a couple of ravenwing units and a flyer into it rather than adding an outrider (or do the opposite with a ravenwing main outrider. This is almost DOUBLE what I get in 8th.

My nids will almost certainly be going with a brigade.

I'm actually really happy with the changes to army building (well, apoart from the rule of 3 now being an official thing, guess i am going to have to run max termie squads and combat squad them in larger games but HEY! thats what combat squads is for )

princeyg wrote:

Spoiler:

 IronSlug wrote:
I really don't understand why specialist detachments should not be the main warlord detachment (the free one). Of course it would advantage some armies/build, but the same way "standard" detachments advantage armies with the best/cheapest troops. And it would allow for highly thematic lists...

It's really a miss in my book, but something that can be easily houseruled so it's not that bad I guess.

While I am ok with losing a few cp to run my deathwing without any greenwing for example, I do have a sneaky suspicion that some special characters that lend themselves to certain specialist detachments (belial- vanguard, sammael - outrider etc) will eventually be given cp refund abilities in new codexes ( though i'd probably prefer if it wasn't a full refund like the warlord, maybe half rounding up or something otherwise it completely derails the point of specialist detachments costing cp in exchange for swapping out the troops requirement ).

One thing I very much like about the system is that, yes, while troops units are not as important as in 8th, the cp cost for the specialist detachments still means there is a decision to be made about running one rather than it being an automatic choice and this is not something I think they should abandon lightly.

I mean after all my deathwing army in 8th had 3cp for battleforged, 1 for vanguard and possibly 1 for outrider if i took ravenwing as well. Thats 5 total. Considering deathwing assault is 2 or 3 depending, it really just did not work at all. now however, at 2000 pts I will have 12-3 = 9 cp for a vanguard, and then just plonk a couple of ravenwing units and a flyer into it rather than adding an outrider (or do the opposite with a ravenwing main outrider. This is almost DOUBLE what I get in 8th.

My nids will almost certainly be going with a brigade.

I'm actually really happy with the changes to army building (well, apoart from the rule of 3 now being an official thing, guess i am going to have to run max termie squads and combat squad them in larger games but HEY! thats what combat squads is for )

Don't get me wrong I'm mostly happy too, but I just feel the cp cost of specialist detachments, even if they are the "main" detachment isn't usefull at all. It feels to me that they are trying to prevent abuse before knowing if they really exist. I think that loosing ObjSec on the troops would have been enough. But as you wrote, it's already clearly better than 8th for such specialist armies.

As for characters, that's a pretty good idea, I just wish it won't be reserved to named character. I don't like that in modern 40k you more often than not have to rely on named characters to build some thematic list, I mean Sammael isn't part of all ravenguard deployments (maybe he is, I don't know much about DA, but you get the idea). But that's on me for being a filthy "your guys" guy.

I can understand that, but at least at the moment you can run a deathwing detachment without belial (albeit for a loss of some cp) and, say, a termie interrogator chaplain unlike the 4th ed codex where you HAD to run sammy or belial if you wanted their respective companies as the majority of your force.

Anyways, overall i am pretty happy with the changes (certainly for my dark angels, bit more thinking required for my nids, totally dont have a clue about my orks) and think that the overall reduction in HQ we will likely see will be a good thing.. I think it will also promote the use of elite option characters like techmarines for those who want more heores. May even have to dig out my deathwing apothecary again.

I think we will for sure see Command benefits for Sammael and Belial if they lead Outrider and Spearhead. This will probably be the same for other characters in armies too, so that they can try to push more fluffy force organizations by dangling the CP refund carrot in front of you. I like this approach.

As it stands now, your Deathwing/Ravenwing are still far better off than they were before (unless you want more than 2 HQ). Not only are you starting with more (9CP vs maybe 5CP) but you are also getting 1CP extra per turn too.

GW has tried the bikes become troops and terminators become troops line of thinking before and I personally hope they don't go down that route as every time they have it's become either a very sub par way and people do nothing but complain (like the current you can take nothing but terminatos but it costs you 3 of 17 CP. Thats 17%) Or it costs so little vrs the benifits it becomes the default way to play regardless.

It becoming the default way to play is way worse than someone having a small downsidd for getting to skip the troops tax. And 17% doesn't sound bad for 0 troops.

Ice_can wrote:
GW has tried the bikes become troops and terminators become troops line of thinking before and I personally hope they don't go down that route as every time they have it's become either a very sub par way and people do nothing but complain (like the current you can take nothing but terminatos but it costs you 3 of 17 CP. Thats 17%) Or it costs so little vrs the benifits it becomes the default way to play regardless.

It becoming the default way to play is way worse than someone having a small downsidd for getting to skip the troops tax. And 17% doesn't sound bad for 0 troops.

Yes, i was saying this exact thing a few posts ago. I have no problems at all with the cp cost for specialist detachments. It is an improvement in my opinion.