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Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





So I really want to have the conversation about Invader ATVs vs Attack Bikes.
I currently have 2 Attack Bikes (inside bike squads for additional wounds) and 3 ATVs. I'm considering dropping the ATVs and getting 3 more Attack Bikes (ugh, $102 more for my angels), but I'm not 100% convinced.

Attack Bikes
Pros: Cheaper by 25pts per (frees up 75pts in list), have Core so receive benefit of rerolls (from both Sammy/Capt and Talon Master), smaller footprint, can get resurrected by an Apothecary.
Cons: Lower wound count (opponent only has to get through 12 wounds to kill the squad, and the D3+3 is the perfect weapon to do it)

Invader ATVs
Pros: 6 extra bolter shots, can be a target for Transhuman for 1CP for unit of 3, can still be healed by apothecary, 24 wounds for the squad, 6 extra melee attacks.

Both can be target of Skilled Riders if advanced (dev doctrine obviously), and also hit and run if in melee.

With that being said, not having Core for the ATVs does somewhat remove the chains. Knowing they don't benefit form rerolls allows you to send them off where you want without hugging characters. 24 wounds and transhuman is no easy feat to get through and I'll still have my 2 bike squads with attached MM (plus black knights) to take advantage of rerolls.
Thoughts?
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I really want to stick up for Invader ATVs, but I suspect there's a reason they don't show up in any top 4 lists at big tournaments. That being said, they are probably not a bad choice in smaller, slightly less competitive, events. They certainly have certain things going for them that Attack Bikes don't (such as better durability for the points especially with access to THP), but the lack of CORE kills them in top tier play, where not being able to get rerolls is a deal breaker. Then again, AdMech players are still using the chicken walkers and they recently lost CORE, so maybe I'm full of crap. The ATVs are definitely better for Dark Angels than any other chapter thanks to a built-in 5++ save, so that's something at least.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

My Attack Bike Squadron does most of my heavy-lifting. It is true that Core means you are shackled to support characters, but you can choose to send your Attack Bikes off on their own if you really want. Sammael's Chapter Master is done in the Command Phase, though, and the Squadron then swans off with a Talonmaster in tow to kill something that really needs killed. The Ravenwing Apothecary bringing them back is also huge.

Have to admit, though, that I have not tried the ATVs...I did experience the liberating feeling of a Landspeeder not worrying about rerolls. I'd say if you have the ATVs take'em for a spin and see what happens!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

Hey folks quick (2 part) question:

1) Would a [Legends] Land Raider Terminus Ultra be able to use our chapter tactic and, so long as it doesn't move, fire all 8 lascannon with effectively a 2+ to hit?

2) My group is very casual, and totally okay with using legends models... would I be "that guy" for bringing a Land Raider Terminus Ultra? ESPECIALLY because we almost exclusively play lower point (1500pt and under) games?


   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

leerm02 wrote:
Hey folks quick (2 part) question:

1) Would a [Legends] Land Raider Terminus Ultra be able to use our chapter tactic and, so long as it doesn't move, fire all 8 lascannon with effectively a 2+ to hit?

2) My group is very casual, and totally okay with using legends models... would I be "that guy" for bringing a Land Raider Terminus Ultra? ESPECIALLY because we almost exclusively play lower point (1500pt and under) games?




I have never met a Land Raider Terminus Ultra, but if it has the Dark Angels keyword (has the ability to have that <keyword&gt then it will be able to use the Dark Angels Chapter Tactic.

As for your second question, that is best answered by your gaming group. I don't think that normal Land Raiders are a sign of a hyper-competitive list. Unless this one in question has some amazing defensive buffs that normal ones do not have I can't see it being overpowered? You could take two Predator Annihilators with the same firepower (and chapter tactic) without making people blink. Having said that, if the reason you are asking about the Land Raider in question is that you think it will be super-powerful in your group then perhaps you have answered your own question? Still, ask them!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Not much of a tactics comment but more of a gripe. I find it odd that GW has the Attack Bike be Core but not the ATV. They are both "Bikes" by rule and you think GW would want to sell the newer model instead of the ancient attack bike. With the apothecary nerf (needed) there really isn't a solid reason why the ATV should not be Core.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 bullyboy wrote:
Not much of a tactics comment but more of a gripe. I find it odd that GW has the Attack Bike be Core but not the ATV. They are both "Bikes" by rule and you think GW would want to sell the newer model instead of the ancient attack bike. With the apothecary nerf (needed) there really isn't a solid reason why the ATV should not be Core.


For me it certainly tips the scales towards the Attack Bikes. Core means that the Squadron can advance and shoot in Turn 1 with some assurance of Multi-Melta hits when operating under Sammael's Chapter Master ability. It is a bit of a head-scratcher why the ATVs didn't get Core.

I hope that the answer is not taking Core away from the Attack Bikes!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




I find ABs better not just because they are cheaper and have core, but can also be OBSEC in a bike squad, and can hide there with ablative wounds. Generally, I think the ability to combat squad and pack an obsec squad full of special weapons and an AB + ablative wounds from the additional biker + giving more targets for WWSWF is an excellent combo.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

Hey fellow Dark Angels players!

So I was planning on putting a little money into developing my beloved broody-monk space-marines some more, and I wanted to get a few units whose primary job was basically: "Sit there and shoot until you die!" ...mostly to take advantage of the chapter tactic.

What would you say are your absolute TOP "sit and shoot" units for DA?

Off the cuff, I would place our whirlwinds as good contenders, but also the rapier carrier (75pts for four HB and bs 2+?!) and to a lesser extent dudes like Infiltrators that can pretty much be set up somewhere they want to control and not move until they are killed.

But I want to hear YOUR input, as chances are quite high that you have WORLDS more experience running DA than I do!
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

leerm02 wrote:
Hey fellow Dark Angels players!

So I was planning on putting a little money into developing my beloved broody-monk space-marines some more, and I wanted to get a few units whose primary job was basically: "Sit there and shoot until you die!" ...mostly to take advantage of the chapter tactic.

What would you say are your absolute TOP "sit and shoot" units for DA?

Off the cuff, I would place our whirlwinds as good contenders, but also the rapier carrier (75pts for four HB and bs 2+?!) and to a lesser extent dudes like Infiltrators that can pretty much be set up somewhere they want to control and not move until they are killed.

But I want to hear YOUR input, as chances are quite high that you have WORLDS more experience running DA than I do!

Eliminators are not terrible for this. They aren't as good as they were in 8th but they can do work against character heavy lists. Otherwise, perhaps Devastators with either Lascannons, Plasma Cannons, or if you can get them a bit closer, Multi-meltas.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




leerm02 wrote:
Hey fellow Dark Angels players!

So I was planning on putting a little money into developing my beloved broody-monk space-marines some more, and I wanted to get a few units whose primary job was basically: "Sit there and shoot until you die!" ...mostly to take advantage of the chapter tactic.

What would you say are your absolute TOP "sit and shoot" units for DA?

Off the cuff, I would place our whirlwinds as good contenders, but also the rapier carrier (75pts for four HB and bs 2+?!) and to a lesser extent dudes like Infiltrators that can pretty much be set up somewhere they want to control and not move until they are killed.

But I want to hear YOUR input, as chances are quite high that you have WORLDS more experience running DA than I do!


Hellblasters. I know they are a mainstay, but bs 2+ WotDA rapid fire will melt just about anything
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 ZergSmasher wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Bike Captains? I'm trying to cut back on my characters so that I can put more meat in the lists, therefore a single Talonmaster, chief RW apothecary and a Capt on bike instead of Sammael. Also dropped my terminator ancient. So, keep the bike captain cheap with calibanite knight and teeth of terra?

I've seen RW lists with a barebones Bike Captain with the Reliquary of the Repentant. Definitely saves points over taking Sammael, although in most cases Sammael is very good to have.

Also, I actually wanted to share a trick I saw recently when I faced a Dark Angels list. He had taken a Master-crafted weapon on his Deathwing Knight Master, making that flail damage 3. This could be really good with the new Orks starting to be seen, as the damage spillover makes it brutal vs. hordes. D3 is also just plain nice to have in general.


Raises glass.

I am in the middle of a Teams tourney (1000 per player, teams of four, tag-team format where you play with a team mate) and I am playing Deathwing. Its hard to generalize from a wacky format like this (I have been paired with Necrons, Aeldari and Drukhari), but my Knight Master with the Relic Flail has been a wrecking ball on 2013 Miley Cyrus levels. Taking advantage of his flail, the Deathwing Knights blew through two 20-man Necron Warrior squads in one game (he killed twelve in one mighty swing) and a twenty-strong Slanesh Deamon Squad in another. The Squad also took down a Dawn Eagle Captain, a five-strong Custodes squad, a Keeper of Secrets and a Necron Overlord. The splash-damage from the Relic Flail is absolutely worth the 1CP.

So thanks!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




How killy are they? Do you think they'd be worth spashing into a mono RW list to get a CC punch, or is the tax for the rest of the formation not worth it in your opinion?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 01:22:16


 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Vulshra wrote:
How killy are they? Do you think they'd be worth spashing into a mono RW list to get a CC punch, or is the tax for the rest of the formation not worth it in your opinion?


Deathwing Knights are amazingly killy (in melee of course). If you are going mono-Ravenwing at 2000 points you might be OK with a Deathwing Knights Auxiliary Detachment in terms of CP. Of course, if you are going that way a Librarian and Tactical Squad to make it a Patrol can complement the Ravenwing for the same CP cost. The Deathwing Knights don't need a babysitter in that they hit on a 2+ and their weapons do not have a -1. Their weakness is Mortal Wounds.

I just finished a five-round Teams tourney. The only game where they were wiped out for not much return was against Sisters where Blessed Bolts dished out 6 Mortal Wounds and a storm of Melta plus a Prayer that deals MWs finished the others (over two turns).

The last game featured my Deathwing (1000 points) teamed with Aeldari (don't tell anyone) against Thousand Sons and Ultramarines in Sweep and Clear. I pinned my ears back and sent my whole force (10 man Deathwing Squad and 5 man Deathwing Knights plus Ezekiel, Apothecary and a Command Squad) into the centre. The Thousand Sons were able to take away the Deathwing Knights invulnerable save, but Storm Shields and Terminator Armour don't miss their invul against (-2) and (-3) AP weapons. The Deathwing Knights took down half the Bladeguard while the 10 man squad took out the rest and a Redemptor while making 23 straight saving rolls of 3+ against pretty much a full range of weapons. The Deathwing Knights faced a Redemptor and three Bladeguard (surviving) attacks for the loss of three models.

I am finding that Psychic support is important for Deathwing. Righteous Repugnance and Mind Worm are my go-to Powers to make their melee even better.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




Honestly I'm wishing DW and RW could be combined in a pure detachment, like being able to include RW in a DW vanguard without obsec, or DW in a RW outrider without them gaining obsec without it breaking the detachment. Probably would be OP, but maybe a stratagem or something

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/21 17:59:52


 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Vulshra wrote:
Honestly I'm wishing DW and RW could be combined in a pure detachment, like being able to include RW in a DW vanguard without obsec, or DW in a RW outrider without them gaining obsec without it breaking the detachment. Probably would be OP, but maybe a stratagem or something


You can put Sammel, a Talonmaster, a Ravenwing Champion, a Ravenwing Apothecary and Ravenwing Black Knights in a Deathwing/1st Company Vanguard detachment without breaking 1st Company, since they all have Inner Circle. So you could take Sammael, a Talonmaster, Ravenwing Apothecary, Ravenwing Black Knights (Elites choice) as part of a Vanguard Detachment with a couple of Deathwing Terminator Squads and still be 1st Company. The Deathwing Terminators would gain Obsec and you would get the Vanguard CPs refunded.

It can do some work!

The inverse does not work. While Black Knights are both Ravenwing and Inner Circle, Deathwing Terminators do not have Ravenwing so they "break" the 2nd Company ability.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

Hey friends, I am playing with my raven wing (rw looked really fun, fast, flanky) anyway im looking over my units and wondering if I should take outriders or black knights. Both are 6pl but after doing the math hammer, black knights just seem to have more.. oomph. Sure they at not as great in melee (on the charge) and are one wound less, but the assault plasma, corvis hammers and inner circle, they seem to be the better buy. Did i miss something or are knights better?

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




 zammerak wrote:
Hey friends, I am playing with my raven wing (rw looked really fun, fast, flanky) anyway im looking over my units and wondering if I should take outriders or black knights. Both are 6pl but after doing the math hammer, black knights just seem to have more.. oomph. Sure they at not as great in melee (on the charge) and are one wound less, but the assault plasma, corvis hammers and inner circle, they seem to be the better buy. Did i miss something or are knights better?


Inner circle doesn't apply to BK because they don't have the infantry keyword, and outriders gain obsec, otherwise you have it right. if going anti infantry do outriders, anti anything else BK
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

Vulshra wrote:
 zammerak wrote:
Hey friends, I am playing with my raven wing (rw looked really fun, fast, flanky) anyway im looking over my units and wondering if I should take outriders or black knights. Both are 6pl but after doing the math hammer, black knights just seem to have more.. oomph. Sure they at not as great in melee (on the charge) and are one wound less, but the assault plasma, corvis hammers and inner circle, they seem to be the better buy. Did i miss something or are knights better?


So the real question then, do I take one squad of each, 6bk or 2x 3bk??
Inner circle doesn't apply to BK because they don't have the infantry keyword, and outriders gain obsec, otherwise you have it right. if going anti infantry do outriders, anti anything else BK

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

In the interests of clarity, Ravenwing Black Knights do have the Inner Circle keyword. They do not get to use the fourth (and most amazing) part of Inner Circle because you do indeed have to be Infantry to have unmodified rolls of 1-3 on a Wound roll fail against them. They also get to dodge out of the third aspect of Inner Circle due to also having Ravenwing.

So Inner Circle doesn't get them too much, but they do get to be in a 1st Company detachment and they cannot fail morale. Makes taking a large squadron viable - although with Blast I am doing so less in 9th.

In Black Knights vs Outriders I am tending towards Black Knights these days. A subtle difference between them is being Elites instead of Fast Attack. Can make a difference when building an Outrider detachment. If you are trying to cut corners for a small Outrider Detachment that has fast Obsec then Outriders are better (although normal Ravenwing Bike Squadrons win out vs Outriders in that case). If you have a bunch of Ravenwing Bike Squadrons already and are running out of slots then Black Knights take an Elites and also allow the RW Apothecary and Champion to be "Free" slots.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
In the interests of clarity, Ravenwing Black Knights do have the Inner Circle keyword. They do not get to use the fourth (and most amazing) part of Inner Circle because you do indeed have to be Infantry to have unmodified rolls of 1-3 on a Wound roll fail against them. They also get to dodge out of the third aspect of Inner Circle due to also having Ravenwing.

So Inner Circle doesn't get them too much, but they do get to be in a 1st Company detachment and they cannot fail morale. Makes taking a large squadron viable - although with Blast I am doing so less in 9th.

In Black Knights vs Outriders I am tending towards Black Knights these days. A subtle difference between them is being Elites instead of Fast Attack. Can make a difference when building an Outrider detachment. If you are trying to cut corners for a small Outrider Detachment that has fast Obsec then Outriders are better (although normal Ravenwing Bike Squadrons win out vs Outriders in that case). If you have a bunch of Ravenwing Bike Squadrons already and are running out of slots then Black Knights take an Elites and also allow the RW Apothecary and Champion to be "Free" slots.



Right, that was where my head was at as well. I am not overly worried about blast as our current crusade is only 35PL soon going up to 50 so blast has not been an issue too bad so far. In my list I am currently running a squad of 5 firstborn bikers (2 with plasma). We all had to take a patrol detachment so sadly I don't have a ton of room for fast attack so that does make me lean to more BK to open up another FA slot. With that being said however I do not have a ton of Obsec if I cut the outriders as I run my intercessors in the back as a shooting platform.

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 zammerak wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
In the interests of clarity, Ravenwing Black Knights do have the Inner Circle keyword. They do not get to use the fourth (and most amazing) part of Inner Circle because you do indeed have to be Infantry to have unmodified rolls of 1-3 on a Wound roll fail against them. They also get to dodge out of the third aspect of Inner Circle due to also having Ravenwing.

So Inner Circle doesn't get them too much, but they do get to be in a 1st Company detachment and they cannot fail morale. Makes taking a large squadron viable - although with Blast I am doing so less in 9th.

In Black Knights vs Outriders I am tending towards Black Knights these days. A subtle difference between them is being Elites instead of Fast Attack. Can make a difference when building an Outrider detachment. If you are trying to cut corners for a small Outrider Detachment that has fast Obsec then Outriders are better (although normal Ravenwing Bike Squadrons win out vs Outriders in that case). If you have a bunch of Ravenwing Bike Squadrons already and are running out of slots then Black Knights take an Elites and also allow the RW Apothecary and Champion to be "Free" slots.



Right, that was where my head was at as well. I am not overly worried about blast as our current crusade is only 35PL soon going up to 50 so blast has not been an issue too bad so far. In my list I am currently running a squad of 5 firstborn bikers (2 with plasma). We all had to take a patrol detachment so sadly I don't have a ton of room for fast attack so that does make me lean to more BK to open up another FA slot. With that being said however I do not have a ton of Obsec if I cut the outriders as I run my intercessors in the back as a shooting platform.


Outriders only gain Obsec in an all-Ravenwing Outrider Detachment. In a Patrol they do not get Obsec. Might make the decision easier!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

true but I will house rule it as we were all forced into a patrol detachment by the crusade organizer for "balance" so its kinda a crappy thing to lose out on as I did not have a choice in my detachment despite wanting to do a raven wing list as its fluffy and fun. but if it is ruled, to bad so sad, then more knights it is!

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




Looking at recent tournament winners, I'm thinking it may be useful to conceptualize different DA lists in terms of win condition? Ex) most RW lists win by killing and board control, whereas DW lists endure and need to tarpit critical enemies
   
Made in gb
I'll Be Back



United Kingdom

I am new to the Dark Angels and am trying to work out how best to proceed

So far painted I have

10 Tactical Marines, 1 with Grav Gun
10 Intercessors with Auto Bolt Rifle and 2 x Grenade Launchers
1 x Primaris Chaplain
1 x Primaris Apothecary

I am at the moment painting

1 x Captain (from Indomitus Box set)
1 x Lieutenant (from Indomitus Box Set)
3 x Bladeguard (from Indomitus Box Set)
3 x Centurion Devastator with Lascannons
Belial
1 Deathwing Landraider

Made and Undercoated

6 x Outriders
3 x Bladeguard (from Indomitus Box set)
1 x Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle
3 x Eradicators
10 Assault Intercessors
1 x Ancient with Banner
1 x Phobos Librariarn
10 Heavy Intercessor with Hellstorm Bolt rifle and incl 2Hellstorm Heavy Bolter
10 Heavy Intercessor with Heavy Bolt Rifle and incl 2 Heavy Bolter
1 Invader ATV

I have got 10 Hellblasters which I am going to make as Assault plasma users. I have 10 Deathwing terminators which I will make as Deathwing Knights and Tartaros and Cataphracti terminators to make as normal Deathwing. I am unsure about getting more Ravenwing. Perhaps more bikers. I like the look of the Talonmaster with it being a character keyword model as well as the Land speeder Vengance

What are your thoughts

 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

IronBob wrote:
I am new to the Dark Angels and am trying to work out how best to proceed

So far painted I have

10 Tactical Marines, 1 with Grav Gun
10 Intercessors with Auto Bolt Rifle and 2 x Grenade Launchers
1 x Primaris Chaplain
1 x Primaris Apothecary

I am at the moment painting

1 x Captain (from Indomitus Box set)
1 x Lieutenant (from Indomitus Box Set)
3 x Bladeguard (from Indomitus Box Set)
3 x Centurion Devastator with Lascannons
Belial
1 Deathwing Landraider

Made and Undercoated

6 x Outriders
3 x Bladeguard (from Indomitus Box set)
1 x Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle
3 x Eradicators
10 Assault Intercessors
1 x Ancient with Banner
1 x Phobos Librariarn
10 Heavy Intercessor with Hellstorm Bolt rifle and incl 2Hellstorm Heavy Bolter
10 Heavy Intercessor with Heavy Bolt Rifle and incl 2 Heavy Bolter
1 Invader ATV

I have got 10 Hellblasters which I am going to make as Assault plasma users. I have 10 Deathwing terminators which I will make as Deathwing Knights and Tartaros and Cataphracti terminators to make as normal Deathwing. I am unsure about getting more Ravenwing. Perhaps more bikers. I like the look of the Talonmaster with it being a character keyword model as well as the Land speeder Vengance

What are your thoughts

You've got a very decent starting core of an army there; I will point out that certain units and weapons are not considered very good at the moment (Dev Centurions and Land Raiders are kinda trash, grav guns aren't very good either). However, you've also got some great units such as Intercessors with Auto Bolt Rifles (one of the better troops units available to Marines), and Bladeguard. Apothecaries are also good so it's nice that you've got one. On your Terminators, keep in mind that Tartaros and Cataphractii are a different unit from normal Termies (Relic Terminators) and have different wargear options. Ideally, build your Relic Termies to have a LC and Combibolter on each guy; they become very cheap and durable objective holders and are not too shabby in a fight either. For your 10 normal Deathwing models, I would only build one squad of 5 Deathwing Knights, or build them as two separate 5-man squads for flexibility. I've found 10 man units to be a bit unwieldy in game.

If you want to get more Ravenwing (and you should), a Talonmaster is an absolute must-have. They're great. Sammael would be another good buy, or failing that get yourself a Captain on a bike (have to convert that yourself). Some normal Bikers and a couple of boxes of Ravenwing Black Knights would be good as well; the RWBK kit also makes the Command Squad characters (RW Champion, Apothecary, and Ancient), and you will want at least the Apothecary.

Honestly what you should get and how you should proceed really depends on what you are looking to get out of the game. If you're looking to just play fun games with your buddies, anything goes, just buy and paint what you think looks cool. If you're wanting to play more competitively, you'll want to put some thought into how you want your lists to work in order to guide future purchases. There's a ton of resources to guide you all over the Internet (including this very thread!), and of course feel free to ask more questions. I would post a link to Goonhammer's article on Dark Angels, but sadly they haven't finished it yet. They do have other articles about the game and Space Marines in general though.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

IronBob wrote:
I am new to the Dark Angels and am trying to work out how best to proceed

So far painted I have

Spoiler:
10 Tactical Marines, 1 with Grav Gun
10 Intercessors with Auto Bolt Rifle and 2 x Grenade Launchers
1 x Primaris Chaplain
1 x Primaris Apothecary

I am at the moment painting

1 x Captain (from Indomitus Box set)
1 x Lieutenant (from Indomitus Box Set)
3 x Bladeguard (from Indomitus Box Set)
3 x Centurion Devastator with Lascannons
Belial
1 Deathwing Landraider

Made and Undercoated

6 x Outriders
3 x Bladeguard (from Indomitus Box set)
1 x Captain with Heavy Bolt Rifle
3 x Eradicators
10 Assault Intercessors
1 x Ancient with Banner
1 x Phobos Librariarn
10 Heavy Intercessor with Hellstorm Bolt rifle and incl 2Hellstorm Heavy Bolter
10 Heavy Intercessor with Heavy Bolt Rifle and incl 2 Heavy Bolter
1 Invader ATV

I have got 10 Hellblasters which I am going to make as Assault plasma users. I have 10 Deathwing terminators which I will make as Deathwing Knights and Tartaros and Cataphracti terminators to make as normal Deathwing. I am unsure about getting more Ravenwing. Perhaps more bikers. I like the look of the Talonmaster with it being a character keyword model as well as the Land speeder Vengance


What are your thoughts


Wow - quite a start! No half measures there.

I second the motion to acquire/convert a Ravenwing Talonmaster. Acts a Lieutenant and does crowd control.

As for lists you have plenty of options with what you have. Perhaps make five of your Terminators into Deathwing Knights and five into Deathwing Terminators. If your Ancient is the Bladeguard Ancient from Indomitus then he has the Deathwing Keyword and can take the great damage reduction banner.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Played in a twenty-player four round Escalation tournament today. 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 lists and you had to carry over all models and upgrades to each list. A fascinating exercise due to the restraints and constraints of the format. Do you start your design with a 2000 list and neck down, or with a 500 point list and build up? I went for the latter. And the former.

Game 1 Resupply vs Blood Angels.

500 points do not get you very much! I took Azrael, a two-man Deathwing Command Squad with TH/SS, a five-man Tactical Squad a two-strong Attack Bike Squadron with Multi-Meltas. He had Dante, Corbulo and two Tactical Squads. Picking Secondaries was very tricky, so I went with the Mission one, Oath of Moment and Stubborn Defiance. He had first turn, moved up and took out an Attack Bike. My Deathwing Command Squad went after Dante, buffed by Azrael's Chapter Master rerolls. They landed enough TH hits to kill Dante while the Tactical Squad, Azrael and surviving Attack Bike ground down one of his Squads. The Command Squad consolidated into his other Tactical squad, wiping it out in his Turn. He was tabled by the end of my turn. Combat Patrol games can be swing - he underestimated my Command Squad but I did get lucky with my charge. Both of us had high-value Characters you would not normally put in Combat Patrol due to our design for latter games.

Game 2 Ascension vs Grey Knights

At 1000 points I added an Intercessor Squad, an Eradicator Squad with Heavy Melta Rifles and a Multi-melta, a Ravenwing Apothecary and filled out the Deathwing Command Squad to 5 with a Cyclone Missile Launcher (and a Watcher and more TH/SS). My opponent had three Characters, two Dreadknights and two Squads. I took Abhor (it would be rude not to), the Mission Secondary (makes you want to be in the Centre) and Oath of Moment. My massed Multi-Meltas/Heavy Melta Rifles took out his Dreadknights, and while his first Psychic Phase was rough by the end of my second Turn he was down to a single Character facing the full Deathwing Command Squad, Azrael and the Eradicators...

Game 3 Battles Lines vs Orks

I added Deathwing Knights, Ezekiel and another Tactical Squad. He had a Killrig, two Squigasours, bikes, Dethkoptas, Kommandoes, Squigbuggies and some other sundries. I took To the Last, the Mission Secondary and Stubborn Defiance. My plan was to refuse my right and push on my left. I had first turn and took some wounds off the Killrig while the Deathwing Knights took out some Kommandos on a mid-field objective. He went into them with the Dethkoptas, a Squigasaur and the Killrig while a Truck mob with a warboss debussed on my left flank. I lost two Deathwing Knights, but took out the Killrig. The DW Knights and Deathwing Command Squad took down both Squigasaurs over the following two turns. I realized the flaw in my plan as he rolled up my left flank and took out my Stubborn Defiance Intercessors with Squigbuggy fire. I should have split my Terminators - one squad to each flank with a Character.

He was down to a handful of models at the end but had earned a win on Primary and Secondary. I scraped out a decent score with To the Last and the Mission Secondary (45 points total to his 80), and I was happy to see how the Deathwing dealt with some scary stuff. Still, my poor plan cost me the win. I should have split my forces (goes against my instincts), and Stubborn Defiance was not a wise choice given his list.

Game 4 - Priority Target vs Slanesh

I added a Bladeguard Squad, a Bladeguard Ancient with the damage reduction banner, Plasma Inceptors and an Interrogator Chaplain. He had three Keepers of Secrets, Shalaxi, Belakhor and four mobs of Daemonettes. I castled up, hoping to weather the charge and then try to move out. I took Assassinate, Stubborn Defiance and the Mission secondary. He won the roll-off and was on me Turn 1 with two Keepers. One Tactical Squad died but the Bladeguard hung in there.

Melta and Plasma fire took down two Keepers while the Deathwing Knights bowled in and killed the one pestering the Bladeguard, assisted by the Ravenwing Apothecary's Reliquary debuff. Belakor and Shalaxi then died the following turn to both Terminator Squads and the Eradicators, helped again by the Apothecary's brave Invul debuff. After that it was mopping up. The Chaplain's Rite that grants a 5+++ against Mortal Wounds was clutch, as was the Apothecary and Banner.

Summary. I came 2nd with the Ork player coming 1st. The format makes taking concrete list lessons difficult. My firepower was blistering but short-ranged. People pass by the Heavy Melta-Rifle Eradicators but spending 2 CP to count as Stationary plus Grim Resolve and Azrael makes them devastating against foes that want to close with you. Minimum 5 damage at 12" and under is wonderful. Having said that, against Guard or Tau they would likely have struggled.

The Deathwing Knights were money in the bank - the Relic Flail doing its thing again. The five-man Deathwing Terminator Command Squad was an inefficiency brought on by the format, but they certainly did their job. Ezekiel is a force multiplier worth his 125 points. Azrael was an indulgence. His Chapter Master buff on the Attack Bikes who could swan off and kill while he walked with the Eradicators was, however, a big help. The Plasma Inceptors only saw one game, but they were murder against the big Daemonette Squads. 18 shots - eat that! The Ravenwing Apothecary earned more honours with his battlefield surgery and Invul debuff - he was the key to unlocking the Slaneshi list. Its a good thing that his armour is proof against Slaneshi tears.

Thanks for having the Grim Resolve to read my report!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/07 04:07:54


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Nice write-up! That sounds like a fun and different format with its own unique challenges. Good job on 2nd place!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





So I'm narrowing down my 2000pt list which I plan to take to some events in the near future. There are a few units that I just love even though I'm sure I could replace them with something more efficient., that might be just a tough call due to my fondness of said units.

Anyway, it's a RW Outrider and DW Vanguard (shocker)

Sammael (I have a hard time replacing him simply as the full reroll to hits is so good on a unit of Attack Bikes, especially if they advanced first turn. Not to mention placing it on himself. You'd be surprised how many damned ones I roll when I charge Sammy in to something)
Talon Master, Arbiter's Gaze (Brilliant strategist or Rites of War, leaning towards latter)
3 Attack Bikes, MM
3 Attack Bikes, MM
Land Speeder Vengeance (sometimes swingy, but consistent damage often wins out vs certain targets)
5 Black Knights with hammers (usually keep Sammael close for rerolling those ones, but won't give them rerolling all hits unless planning on sending them into melee)
RW Chief Apothecary, selfless healer

Ezekiel (he's my uncertain at the moment, although a great unit)
5 DW Terminators, 3 TH/SS, 2 LC (my stubborn Defiance unit)
5 DW Terminators, SB/PS, 2 TH/SS, 2 SB/CF
5 DW Knights, watcher
2 DW Command squad, SB/PS, TH/SS

Things I'm thinking about...

Black Knights...can be replaced by another terminator squad or a Redemptor dread (probably with full dakka loadout). the dread would give points to upgrade a terminator with Cyclone and probably swap the Command Squad sgt weapons for TH/SS. If I drop the Black Knights, that will for sure kill any real use of Speed of the Raven which has been giving me some good points recently, but Black Knights (one of my favourite units, see intro to post) are very expensive and often fragile.

Ezekiel. He's great, no question, but I'm mostly concerned about my terminators being removed by MWs, they are so rampant now. A MoS Interrogator Chaplain (in term armour or with JP) can give the 5+++ vs MW with Litany of Faith, plus reroll hits in melee and possibly +2" charge if I don't choose to tool him up for combat.
On the flipside, I'm also thinking about Lazarus sneaking in there. He's a bit cheaper (allowing a cyclone to be added), has permanent 5+++ vs MW aura (great for first turn defence and that time you roll a 1 for the chaplain litany), plus giving that reroll 1 to hit (meaning Sammael doesn't have to try and be everywhere). He's becoming a bit of a dark horse actually. I think if I took the Redemptor it would be a done deal since he would be giving it reroll 1s with all those shots.

Another option I'm considering is just not worrying about MW, dropping that additional character (removes Assassinate as an auto take) and adding more to my regular units. It would free up 125pts which could be spent in multiple ways (boost Ravenwing with some obsec bikes), or add to Deathwing with either a second command squad (plus cyclones elsewhere), or even adding a redemptor dread by dropping a single Attack Bike.

Anyway, that's where I'm at currently, lots of options.

   
 
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