Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Great review HBMC. Much thanks.

So here's a theory. Let's say this is not just the vanilla-ing of Chaos (and Dark Angels, Blood Angels etc.). What if Jervis heard the outcry of "cheesy MEqs" and this is the beginning of his attempt to tone down anything in power armor? I suppose we won't have that question answered until Orks come out and we get a feel for them, but since all of the Xenos armies so far are competitive, one wonders if this is not just the elimination of choices, but an actual attempt to de-emphasize Space Marines (without saying that, as it would just peeve off everyone)?

Yakface has some very good points, and frankly, they echo the complaints from the end of 3rd ed. A number of the codicies were out of control, Chaos being the worst offender, and there were numerous complaints about Marines.

4th edition began to reemphasize the problem: the Black Tome was great, but you had at least two 'dexes that ignored most of the emphasis on leadership etc.

I'm not saying it's good for Chaos--in large measure they threw the baby out with the bathwater on this one. They could have made them, as was suggested above, mixed 'dexes of daemons, marines and cultists/renegades (sort of the ancillary to the Daemon/Witchhunter books), with crazy but balanced units. On the other hand, Jervis & Co. is clearly responding to the complaints that have come down the pike about over the top lists.

Oh, and while the SM: Redux has been dropped as a 'release' per se, I wouldn't be surprised if the next printing of Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars have a few 'modifications' in them, a la 3.5 Chaos Codex printings...

Posted By Iorek on 08/14/2007 10:05 AM
~Sigh~

I guess I HAVE to start a "Claws of Lorek" army now.  Dammit.

You might want to use this for the rules...  

Well, clearly those bassies can be the basis for the new renegade army--using IG rules of course.

And those demons? Why, just pick up one of these GF9 trays (movement trays for figs with round bases) and now you can start that Fantasy Battle Chaos army you've always wanted. Brilliant!

See? All better now.

Posted By Crimson Devil on 08/15/2007 10:09 AM
To sum up this thread there are two groups of people. Those who hate the new codex and those who hate the previous codex and anyone who used it.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.

Wow. Sigged.   

Therion (and all others who have said similarly) is right on. In fact, it's so self-evident it saddens me that he has to comment on it. GW revisions are ALWAYS about pushing new product. Yes, even in 3rd edition. Yes, even in 2nd ed. It used to be that every new codex was just more powerful than the last. Now it's every new codex undoes whatever was done the last time around. Remember the words of Wesley: Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

As to a new IG codex, it won't be 3.0. It'll be 2nd ed. But even if I'm wrong, be sure that special weapons squads, hellhounds, rough riders, and vets will be smacked with the nerfhammer, while stormtroopers, armored fist squads, sentinels, ogryn, tech priests,psykers, heavy weapon platoons, and priests will suddenly be the awesomesauce.

Well, maybe not tech priests...

Posted By Dragonmann on 08/16/2007 9:55 AM

GW needs to sit down and figure out that there point values are based on:

You...you don't want them to do that. Trust me. Don't make them sit down and figure anything out. It's really just safer that way.

Best books?
Necromunda
Mordheim
Tau Empires Codex
2nd ed. Sisters of Battle Codex
Dark Millennium (only for the story about brother capt. Stern)
Rogue Trader

Posted By Necros on 08/24/2007 9:25 PM
almost 40 pages of replies!!!

Think we'll get to 50?

I must
I must
I must increase my post count.

Isn't that how the song goes?

On topic: Beef, I think your attitude was more prevalent at the end of 3rd edition/beginning of 4th. We'd all only been through 1-2 codex changes (and one was predicated by 3rd edition). Then having your--in theory--fully supported lists get torn down and rendered inoperable (no, not just ineffective, but INOPERABLE) while still in the same edition really did away with the sentiment of "it's a new game/edition: just roll with it". Even more frustrating this time around as 4th was supposed to take previous codicies into account. Had 4th been accompanied by a "Ravening Hordes" type list and a more robust Codex release schedule (say, 4 a year), there might be fewer sour grapes.

In the meantime, I'm eating sour grapes.