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So, I want to use some razorbacks. They will have HB's and loaded witha melta gun, 3 normal marines and a vet sergeant w/powerfist. Suggestions on how to use them? Moving cover?

If yall coud relate your experiences it would be helpful.

ender502

Take lots of them. They can be suprisingly good. I have mechanised marines as a theme expecting them to be fun but fairly sucky. Actually I got a SAFH, six man teams normally with las/plas, but with some variety and a heavy bolter Razorback for each one. The Razorback is in reality just a turret allowing the 'squad' to fire at two targets.

To make Razorbacks work back them up with tanks. I have a Whirlwind (which doesnt count becvause it hides) a Vindicator and a Land Raider (though I rarely use the Land Raider). They draw the anti-tank fire. Tornados also do a good job.
The main saving grace is that most Ap3 firepower is also the stuff you want to shoot tanks with, and six man las/plas are thmselves a priority target. So the only guns normally dedicated to killing Razorbacks are autocannon and the like.

The nixce thing is thaqt your SAFH marines can shoot shoot shoot then objective rush towards the end of the game.

Now the downsides. Your army will have much lower bodycount, Razorbacks are a poor delivery system because of their small capacity and the problems with survivablity entanglement and assault delays. They also have a small footprint so an enemy can easily get around the back, unlike with a parked Wave Serpent. Frankly they are best viewed as turrets and only as opportunistic transports, not tools for an assaulty army. Thery are also expensive, though the recent marine codeces have reduced trhe price to something more manageable.

I dont recommend lascannon Razorbacks except for fun. If facing a tank heavy opponent my single lascannon Razorback can make its points back, but is otherwise a poorer choice. I also must take a Land Raider or something else more threatening in order to keep it alive long enough to shoot.

I totally agree that Razorbacks are best bought in bulk. For some reason, people get really scared of transports thinking that something inside is good enough to need a transport to get it to their lines. When you take along 3+ razorbacks, your opponent has two choices. He can fire at transports and try to eliminate the targets inside or he can fire on your real tanks and attempt to destroy their firepower. The veteran will probably make the right choice and fire at the real tanks but newer players will often fire on the razorbacks, essentially wasting those anti-tank guns.

I disagree about lascannon razors. I think it's worth a try against nidzilla. The reason nidzilla is so powerful is that it cuts through marines like butter. I hypothosize that a 6 man las/plas in a lascannon razor would present a healthy threat along side some annihilator preds. You saturate the possible targets of the nid player. If they shoot at the tanks, the marines can take them down. If they shoot at the marines, the tanks are fine and dandy to rip some creatures open. If every target available can hurt the monsterous creature, nid players get really really worried and rightly so.

Remeber as well that dead razorback hulks can help funnel opponents into your lines of fire and deny LOS to those shooty dakka fexes. By putting weapons on the rhinos you do increase thier threat to opponents. But you have to figure out if you need more bodies on the ground.

Orion

Yeah, I don't think razorbacks would perform well in an army under 2000 points. You just sacrifice too many troops on the ground. But once you get up to 2k and you have some parts of the FoC maxed out, I postulate that Razorbacks would be quite useful.

"I disagree about lascannon razors. I think it's worth a try against nidzilla. The reason nidzilla is so powerful is that it cuts through marines like butter. I hypothosize that a 6 man las/plas in a lascannon razor would present a healthy threat along side some annihilator preds. You saturate the possible targets of the nid player. If they shoot at the tanks, the marines can take them down. If they shoot at the marines, the tanks are fine and dandy to rip some creatures open. If every target available can hurt the monsterous creature, nid players get really really worried and rightly so."

I disagree. A lascannon Razorback is 90pts ( 80pts for DA ) that is a lot for a single shot from an armour 11 vehicle. Admittedly its the same cost as a minimum lascannon squad and is more accurate. Where Razorbacks excel is on gunning down the gaunts and stealers that accompany nidzilla giving the rest of the army more of a chance to focus on the big bugs.
Marines have plenty of heavy bolter and lasdcannon options, but vehicle mounted lascannon are generally expensive, Predators excepting, wheras heavy bolters are better priced.

If you play DA/BA then lascannon Razorbacks come into their own, only a 10pt discount rather than 20pts but you do need the lascannon with the nerfed squad heavy weapon rules and ther Predator lascannon sponson price hike.


A Razorbacks strength is that you can get two salvos of meaningful shooting from one troops choice, twin linked heavy bolter at little stuff, las/plas (or rough equivalent) at the monsters and tanks.

I agree with Orlanth that R'backs are a poor choice for delivering that meltagun/powerfist combo.  The tank can only move 6" to be effective for it's purpose, shooting.  You would be better off with a rhino, smoke and more marines in that squad layout.  Not to say it cannot be done, if your strategy is to creep the R'backs along while you have some veteran tankhunter elites with lascannons and some annihilators/lascannon devs/dreads blazing away popping tanks, that layout could be effective as mop-up duty/objective grabbing.  But I would drop that meltagun for a plasma gun or even a flamer.  This way you can jump out and rapid fire at close range.

I have been using R'backs ever since I started playing the game.  I have always used them in every RTT/GT/GD I participated in and have won more games than I lost with a few skull mounds to boot.  So yes, they can be used effectively.  I also agree with Orlanth in that I use them more for theme/fun than effectiveness.  Orlanth also suggested the optimal layout.  6-man las/plas with a R'back with heavy bolter.  I totally disagree with the poster that said never take R'backs in a 2000 or less point list.  But I would agree that lascannons don't belong on a R'back unless you are playing 2000+ points, and even then I personally would not kit them out that way.  I have one R'back w/ lascannon in my chapter, but the squad it rolls with is my Techmarine and 4 heavy bolter gun servitors.  I only use it in games over 2150 points.

Okay, how then would you use the las/plas witha razor? With escalation in play that lascannon marine won't be firing until possible turn 3.

Wouldn't multiple plasma guns work better for the "pop out and double tap" idea? While the squad is laying out tasty plasma death on mostrous creatures the HB then takes on the gaunts and inevitable genestealers.

But the general gist i'm getting is that the razor can be useful but more as an addition to a SAFH.

ender502

Ender: "Okay, how then would you use the las/plas witha razor? With escalation in play that lascannon marine won't be firing until possible turn 3."

The Razorback is just a turret, not a transport. However that doesnt help with the stupid escalation rules. To be honest non Eldar dedicated transports are for fun games only, unless you play with the 50/50 chance of getting 'reverse escalation' as some tourneys do, then its fair. Transport units get a raw deal under the RAW, so simply dont bother with them in gamma, or other strict RAW tournaments.

I've run:

3-4 las plas, Hbolter razorbacks, 2 destructors, 1 annnilator....3 landspeeders and a bike chaplin in 1500pts. Works great. Kicks out alot of fire power...