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Does any official fluff exist on "relations" between the forces of the undead and the forces of chaos?  I have no idea how someone like the von Carsteins react when Chaos makes its invasions.

Maybe the vampires live too far south.  I wonder if Archaon has had to deal with the occasional Blood Dragon?

Forgive my ramblings...  It just a question that's nagged me since I've started fantasy.

ZF-

For the most part, they don't get along. The tomb kings are all about order......their own order, but order nonetheless. The vampires want people to be their cattle, and the chaos gods getting a hold of them and destroying the world doesn't help. The von carsteins in particular see themselves as rightful rulers of the empire and don't like chaos trying to get in the way. The storm of chaos fluff had the von carsteins attacking and destroying several chaos armies that tried to cross through sylvania.


SteveW

Thanks,  that's what I was hoping for anyway.  It seems most of the Warhammer World races need little pretext to go at it -- except humans and dwarfs, maybe.

I'll have to pick up SoC when I see it.  I wind up buying all the army books eventually, just for the bedtime reading.

ZF-

There's not a whole lot documenting any of the relations between the Undead and Chaos that I know of except perhaps for Krell. If what I remember is correct he was a champion of Chaos who was brought back from the grave by the Necromancer Heinrich Kemmler.

From what I remember (this is a couple of editions back, and I'll make sure to check my old Undead book when I get back home) Kemmler had to make a pact with Chaos in order to resurrect Krell. Krell then became Kemmler's lieutenant and bore an Obsidian Axe.

It isn't that Chaos despises all undead and vice versa. They have seperate goals but mutual enemies, so I think there are occasions when it's convenient to align themselves against other armies. I would imagine that no Chaos Lord or Greater Demon would dare think of Nagash or any of the top tier of vampires as anything but enemies. Nagash rivals many of the greater demons for power and strategy, while the vampires are the sentient heads of plagues. Still, lesser vampires and Necromancers might be able to align themselves with chaos for certain purposes. The Necromancers wish to subjugate all, but in order to do that they must exact a lot of pain and bloodshed. Pain & bloodshed are two of Chaos' favorite things.

Von Carstein and Blood Dragon clans in particular would more than likely take exception to any Chaos meddling, though Strigoi and Necrarch....I'm not so sure. I would think that the Strigoi would be the most likely to accept Chaos aid should it be offered.

Regular Necromancers might feel a very particular pull towards either the power of Slaanesh or Tzeentch and be willing to ally themselves with those forces.

Sorry, most of this is mostly speculation based on the little that is written. The only thing that's definitive is Krell & Heinrich Kemmler

Well, I think that just as each vampire and necromancer is unique, each one has unique relationships with chaos. Kemmler embraced chaos, and uses the undead chaos warrior Krell. However, Mannfred von Carstein lead an army north to battle Archaon to prevent him from taking over the world.... after all, if he does it, then Mannfred can't.

and don't forget, there is HARRY THE HAMMER, who, according to warmed up WD fluff hates all undead

I'd hate to see the tea party where HtH and Henrich Kimmler are both attending.

ZF-

The Vampires are very much about ruling the world in the evil overlord sense... some want to have an undead kingdom, some want to have human cattle lorded over by vamps.

The Tomb Kings are pissed off because they expected to live forever in the afterlife, not live for ever in undeath. Like the vamps they have wide ranging attitudes to humans/their subjects but they are just as territorial and will defend their cities but unless seeking out some artifact or mummy that was stolen I can't recall them acctually wanting to expand into other areas, unlike the VCs.

Chaos is all about taking over the world and turning it to chaos.

In the storm of chaos a huge chaos force was led through a pass into sylvannia and simply never exited. IIRC it was like 1 page of fluff on the Vamps there but they did not take kindly at all to having chaos, or anyone for that matter trying to invade their lands.

Read the sidebar on page 9 of the Tomb kings codex. 3660 all tremble, Settra the "unfedable" is fed up with not being able to play in the same yard than the other kids and it´s going to take all his legions (and all the legions of the other tomb kids) and kick somebody in the mouth to expand his playing ground.
But I guess that for the average Joe it would not be worse to live under the tomb kings than under the empire once you learn no to stare your very undead tax collector. They just want to rebuild their old kingdoms back, they don´t want to feed on entire populations like the VC or massacre them for the fun of it. Think of Numas where living and unliving work for the Prince Tutankhanut.

M.

none that ive heard of

EvilTeaSociety wrote:There's not a whole lot documenting any of the relations between the Undead and Chaos that I know of except perhaps for Krell. If what I remember is correct he was a champion of Chaos who was brought back from the grave by the Necromancer Heinrich Kemmler

You are correct I managed to snag the PDF files from GWs web site before the new VC book came out, it had rules and background for krell and kimmler.

In the new VC book, skeletons are said to be the remains of ancient barbaric warriors who laid their dead in cairns. Guess who they probably worshiped :-)

The division in WHFB between undead and chaos is somewhat arbitrary as Nurgle is known for its plague zombies and I can't imagine that their wouldn't be hedonistic vampires who follow Slaanesh, schemers and wizards dedicated to Tzeentch, Blood Dragons favored by Khorne, etc.