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In preparation for massive, Apocalypse-style games (while still FOC-legal for non-apocalypse), I've assembled my entire Black Templars army in all its glory. I'm still in the process of acquiring 15 more Terminators(!), as well as the remainder of the Neophytes necessary to complete this list, but other than these things, it's ready to go.

To give you an idea of what I'm going for, my list ideally maxes on competitiveness at between 2K and 3K, so there's definitely some extraneous stuff lying around. I'm still trying to keep it fairly competitive.

Questions, comments, and anything regarding list changes is welcome. Nothing is set in stone (save for the Terminator Command Squad, which I have labored over for some time), but keep in mind it will be difficult (read: lack of more disposable income) to change things that have already been bought. Thanks in advance.

Black Templars 3rd Crusade: Agrarius' Own

Headquarters - 977pts

Marshal (Agrarius) - 143pts
Lightning Claw Pair, Terminator Armor, Teleport Homer, Crusader Seals, Furious Charge - 143pts

Terminator Command Squad (8) - 384pts
2 Assault Cannons, Furious Charge

(Attached) Reclusiarch - 128pts
Crozius Arcanum, Rosarius, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor, Crusader Seals, Furious Charge

Master of Sanctity - 182pts
Crozius Arcanum, Rosarius, Bolt Pistol, Holy Orb of Antioch,  Terminator Honors, Artificer Armor, Teleport Homer, Jump Pack, Frag Grenades

Emperor's Champion - 140pts
"Accept Any Challenge" (This changes depending on who I'm fighting, unless we're playing a set army list game. I took the most expensive one so that I could change Vows without having to make room elsewhere for the necessary points hike)

Elites - 1030pts

Terminator Squad (10) - 440pts
2 Assault Cannons

Terminator Squad (10) - 440pts
2 Assault Cannons

Dreadnought - 150pts
Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher, Venerable, Tank Hunters, Extra Armor

Troops - 885pts

Crusader Squad (8/8) - 233pts
8 Initiates w/ Power Fist, Meltagun, BP & CCW
8 Neophytes w/ Bolt Pistol, CCW

Crusader Squad (8/8) - 233pts
8 Initiates w/ Power Fist, Meltagun, BP & CCW
8 Neophytes w/ Bolt Pistol, CCW

Crusader Squad (10/0) - 185pts
10 Initiates w/ Power Fist, Meltagun

Crusader Squad (6/0) - 117pts
6 Initiates w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun

Crusader Squad (6/0) - 117 pts
6 Initiates w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun

Fast Attack - 461pts

Assault Squad (8) - 201pts
Power Fist, 2 Plasma Pistols

Attack Bike Squadron (2) - 130pts
2 Multi-Meltas

Land Speeder Squadron (2) - 130pts
2 Multi-Meltas

Heavy Support - 155pts

Vindicator - 155pts
Power of the Machine Spirit

3498 Points

Models: 96
Vehicles: 4

The vehicles are mostly for a quick and dirty job. They're going to get trashed at this points level by the obscene amount of anti-tank that enemy armies will have.

The general plan is simple. Attack Bikes, Assault Squad, Land Speeders zoom up the field on different/same sides. Multi-Meltas pop troublesome armor while the Assault Squad and attached Master of Sanctity move along the flank. The infantry wall slogs it forward, with the EC providing some extra speed a la Crusader Seals. Depending on the situation, I might have one Terminator Squad start on the ground. The Jump Pack Chappie will use his homer to beam down the Terminators on one flank, where they won't bear the brunt of the entire enemy army. RZ pushes me closer to my target, and then next turn, I'm stuck in Assault. This will hopefully bog down enough units that my opponent's line either collapses as his units move away, or will become disorganized enough that the 45 or so Troops that have been jogging across the field will be able to smash into them at about the same time. Typical Hammer and Anvil move.

The Las/Plas squads will be the only thing left in my deployment zone at the end of the game, if all goes well. The Vindicator will do whatever it wants - maybe act as an area denial unit by leaving it far off enough that my opponent will have more pressing things to destroy, while hemming his forces into a kill zone by remaining close enough that the Demolisher cannon can threaten. The Dreadnought will act as a light, mobile firebase that will keep pace with the infantry.

Let me know what you all think.

CK

bump.

Beuler?

Just a quick comment is all I'm looking for. "It's great," or "It sucks" aren't ideal, as they provide no constructive criticism, but I'll take anything at this point. Thanks in advance.

CK

Not enough fire-support IMO. two lascannons are your only sure fire heavy weapon, because assault bikes and land speeders can be taken out in a single turn with no trouble at all. A enemy with heavy tanks or medium heavy tanks can do serious damage. All they need to do is take out the land speeders and assult bikes, which isnt hard, a single devestator squad could kill either of them. A large blast shooting tank could take out whole chucks of your army, without you having enough heavy weapon fire power to do much. Even a close combat heavy army needs fire support. Its a decent list, but dont be surprised if you get shot up. Its 3500, you should expect alot of firepower being through against you, and i dont know if you have enough heavy weapons to deal effectively.

I agree with what you're saying, for the most part. The important thing to remember about the speed of the Attack Bikes and Land Speeders is that they can zip around and hide behind terrain until they are able to make the killing blow. They are suicide units, and I use them as such, primarily to take out said Large Blast tanks (Leman Russ, Hammerhead, Basilisk, Defiler, etc.).

I do indeed take massive casualties with this list, but once I Deep Strike in the Terminators, the tides turn pretty quickly. I know that relying too much on them is a poor tactical move, but RZ allows me to scatter away somewhat and still get into close combat after taking only a couple casualties. They end up so close to the enemy lines that my opponent can neither neutralize all 30 of them in the one or two turns of shooting that they'll have before I can assault them nor can he run away fast enough, as there won't be enough board space between his army and the edge to mount any sort of withdrawal. From there, the Termies just dive in with the Assault Marines, with the sloggers bringing up the rear 2 turns later. It gets sorta sloppy in the execution towards the end of the game, but the carnage is beautiful to watch as the 30+ power fists tear through everything.

I usually lose about half my army, but hey, this is 3500 points, as you said. BT's are good enough in CC that it doesn't matter I'm outnumbered even worse than before. Thanks for the comment.

CK

I actually like this list a lot. I had a bunch of advice to add, but when I throught it through in my head, I realized that most of what I had to say was counter-acted by other parts of the list. I was going to say to drop the vindy, but then i realized that even though you only have 2 real tanks, any fire on them wouldn't have normal infantry weapons hitting the foot squads or the bikes. I don't know how it will do in action, but it seems pretty solid. It definatly plays to all the strengths of a templar list. Only thing I worry about is no master starting on the table and the 10 man crusader squad. Those targeting priority checks hurt the 6-man las/plas squads pretty bad and the 10-man squad just seems too weak to be charging across the field on foot. Any chance on replacing the 10-man squad with a autocannon/HB predator? I think it would fit the list nicely and add to your ranged power. You'd have the points to bump the 16 man squads to 20 as well.

That's a really good suggestion, Zathrithal.

I've been trying to figure out what to do with that third wheel of a Crusader Squad. I usually try to keep the EC with one of the 16-man squads, with the 10-man bringing up the rear. This usually gets my opponents to shoot the larger, more dangerous, closer squad, leaving the 10-man unscathed for the most part. I've also been considering dropping the Dreadnought in favor of another Vindicator, but I'm worried I'd be further reducing my anti-tank.

I'm not too worried with the Target Priority checks for the Las/Plas squads, as they'll ignore enemy targets to shoot the big stuff, but it could be problematic if my opponent is throwing his Sentinels in front of his Russes or the like. Would this be properly remedied by swapping the Master of Sanctity and the Marshal? I'd start the game with Ld10, though this would make the Reclusiarch in the Command Squad a bit redundant. Too bad I can't re-roll re-rolls. Another downside to this would be that the Homer-packing Marshal and his Assault Squad would not be Fearless any longer. Though unlikely, a fallback by this squad would be a bad thing. Since they don't benefit from the RZ rule, I don't have to roll a morale check until I take 25% casualties though, so bumping their number up to 10 would be reasonable (giving me an extra Initiate to lose before having to take the check).

There's one other option I am considering, based more around Terminators than before. Here's the quick and dirty list that includes your recommendations. Does this work better?

HEADQUARTERS - 871pts

Reclusiarch w/ Crozius, Rosarius, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armor, Teleport Homer - 130pts

Terminator Command Squad (9) w/ 2 Assault Cannons, Tank Hunters - 430pts

Marshal w/ Lightning Claw Pair, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Holy Orb of Antioch, Frag Grenades, Melta Bombs - 171pts

Emperor's Champion w/ "Accept Any Challenge" - 140pts

ELITES - 1320pts

Terminator Squad (10) w/ 2 Assault Cannons - 440pts

Terminator Squad (10) w/ 2 Assault Cannons - 440pts

Terminator Squad (10) w/ 2 Assault Cannons - 440pts

TROOPS - 804pts

Crusader Squad (10/10) w/ Power Fist, Meltagun - 285pts

Crusader Squad (10/10) w/ Power Fist, Meltagun - 285pts

Crusader Squad (6/0) w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun - 117pts

Crusader Squad (6/0) w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun - 117pts

FAST ATTACK - 525pts

Assault Squad (10) w/ Power Fist, 2 Plasma Pistols - 245pts

Attack Bike Squadron (2) w/ 2 Multi-Meltas - 130pts

Land Speeder Squadron (2) w/ 2 Multi-Meltas - 130pts


3500 Points.

Marshal teams up with the Assault Squad, zoom in with the Speeders and Attack Bikes, beam down 40 Terminators into the enemy lines. If the Assault Squad gets wiped out, I just deep strike the Terminators in a looser pattern (a distinct possibility, since at 3500 points if I'm fighting an opponent that can't kill 13 wounds worth of 3+ saves in one turn, then the game is already decided.).

The 40-man wall moves with the EC, who provides leadership coverage as necessary.

Thanks again for the suggestion, Zath. It adds 100 bucks to this army's pricetag, but considering I've been planning this for so long, I might as well go an extra mile to complete it.

CK

Definatly like the changes. I see what you mean about changing the marshal into the assault squad, but I still think it will help a bit. At least you can have your pick of the targets with the las/plas squads the first turn or 2, and then mop up once/if you lose the marshal. I'd completely soil myself if i saw that many models on the table, not to mention the 40 termies. Tell us how it works out in the field.

It will definitely be a while before I can field all of this in a game, but I promise to write a battle report about it when it happens. Thanks all for the input, it is much appreciated.

CK

EDIT: Just a quick thought - would it be viable for me to swap out one of the 10-man Terminator Squads for a 10-man Assault Terminator Squad with the Furious Charge Veteran Skill? I'd probably have a 6/4 Lightning Claw Pair/Thunder Hammer Split, that way I'd get 24 S5 I5 Power Weapon attacks that re-roll to wound, followed by 12 S9 Init. 1 Thunder Hammer Attacks that would make everything I wound go after my Hammers next round.

They'd cost me 10 points less, which would allow me to eke in a few extra upgrades for my Marshal (ignore the above loadout for my HQs, I pointed it incorrectly.).

Anyway, here's the finalized list, with changes made according to the helpful input I've received here. Thanks again all.

HEADQUARTERS - 851pts
Master of Sanctity w/ Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Teleport Homer, Crozius, Rosarius, Seals - 145pts

Terminator Command Squad (9) w/ 2 AC - 400pts

Marshal w/ Power Sword, Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack, Combat Shield, Frag Grenades, Teleport Homer, Adamantine Mantle, Crusader Seals - 166pts
(I play a Necron opponent pretty regularly - the Mantle will keep him from being Monolith-sniped)

Emperor's Champion w/ "Accept Any Challenge" - 140pts

ELITES - 1320pts
Terminator Squad (10) w/ 2 AC - 440pts
Terminator Squad (10) w/ 2 AC - 440pts
Terminator Squad (10) w/ 2 AC - 440pts

TROOPS - 804
Crusader Squad (10/10) w/ PF, Meltagun - 285pts
Crusader Squad (10/10) w/ PF, Meltagun - 285pts
Crusader Squad (6/0) w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun - 117pts
Crusader Squad (6/0) w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun- 117pts
(EDIT: Thanks for pointing out the typo, Zathrithal)

FAST ATTACK - 525pts
Assault Squad (10) w/ PF, 2 Plasma Pistols, Melta Bombs - 265pts
Attack Bike Squadron (2) w/ 2 Multi-Meltas - 130pts
Land Speeder Squadron (2) 2 Multi-Meltas - 130pts


3500 Points
106 Models
2 Vehicles

CK

I don't know that I see the point of assault Termie squads, despite my love of power claws. Thunder hammers are cool in theory, but how often are you hitting something that is >T4 and has multiple wounds or anti-instant death? I can think of Chaos DPs... and just about only that. In otherwords, I think you are one hitting pretty much everything anyway, which means the bonus from the hammers is lost compared to a fist, and you give up shooting and assault cannons.
Now, power claws are cool, and I think they are really handy, but I just don't know that they are worth giving up the shots for.
Actually, something just occured to me. Do terminator's Storm Bolters count as extra CCWs? I never gave that much thought, but if not, then the claws sort of help.

Anyway, I could see an assault unit with Lightning Claws, just not more than a few hammers, say 2. I would still favor assault cannons and storm bolters with powerfists though.

Unfortunately, Wehrkind, Storm Bolters are two-handed weapons. The 2 base Attacks are all they get, hence my interest in getting the +1 Attack from the Lightning Claw Pair. Though fun, and potentially pickupable in the future for friendly games, I think that for the moment, a 10-man Terminator Squad is going to be the better choice, especially when you throw in the Assault Cannons. Thanks for the input though.

CK

I like the assault squad. Those hammers kick ass against TMCs. One question though, did you really change the 6man squads to have meltaguns? Please tell me that is a typo.

Yes, sorry, that's a Cut+Paste typo. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll edit it.

CK

Yea, normal Terminators with 2 Assault cannons is better.  Im a insane assault terminator fan, but they dont usally do it for me.  Mainly if your doing a deep-strike heavy army, like your doing.  They are good in non-deep strike with a chaplin, maybe, but they still arent perfect.  Normal Terminators already out-pwn other units in assault, ESPECIALLY BT TERMINATORS.  I like your list more now, but still.  A lot can go wrong.  But youll win enough of your games.  A balenced army might rip through it, but that happens to any non-balence armies. 

HotSoup, please explain how walking Assault Terminators up the field is better than Deep Striking them. If I were going to slog my Terminators up the field, I'd want them to at least have some sort of ranged weapon to make them worth taking.

I agree with what you said about BT Terminators - the Fearless in CC and Preferred Enemy vow are two incredibly useful elements that non-Templar Terminators don't have - but I still don't see how Deep Striking Assault Terminators would be worse than slogging them up the field.

CK