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2007/09/17 13:38:39
Subject: 9" move for marines?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I apologize if this has been covered already. I did a quick search but found nothing on it. Some of my friends are playing marines in a way I have never seen before. When one of their units is falling back they make a 3" consolidate at the beginning of their next turn and then move them another 6" during the movement phase. They state that regrouping/consolidating takes place at the beginning of the turn and the TSKNF rule allows them to move as normal. I remember under 4rd Ed they auto regrouped at the end of the fall back. Are they playing this correctly? I can play it either way, but I want to make sure I am playing it right. Thanks. --Krumpaork
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2007/09/17 14:16:08
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Bounding Assault Marine
Long Island, New York
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ATSKNF does allow them to move as normal IF they were eligible to regroup immediately after their fallback the turn they fell back (ie~ no enemy within 6", yadda, yadda). I have never taken a 3" consolidation nor have ever seen a marine player do so in any game I have ever played the way you say it. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Where's Ghaz? If there is any situation where it happens that way, he would know.
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War is not your recreation. It is the reason for your existence. Prepare for it well.
~CODEX ASTARTES
Give me a hundred Space Marines. Or failing that, give me a thousand other troops.
~Rogal Dorn  |
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2007/09/17 15:04:57
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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[ARTICLE MOD]
Longtime Dakkanaut
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I believe that marines get the 6" normal move instead of the 3" consolidation move, or can choose not to move at all and still fire heavy weapons.
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"I was not making fun of you personally - I was heaping scorn on an inexcusably silly idea - a practice I shall always follow." - Lt. Colonel Dubois, Starship Troopers
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2007/09/17 15:32:57
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Your Friends are playing it correctly. Regrouping (BGB pg. 49): "If the unit successfully passes it's Leadership test, it regroups. It cannot move any further during that Movement phase, except that models are allowed to consolidate (see page 44)." Consolidation (BGB pg. 44): "The victors of a close combat may move up to 3" in any direction to consolidate their position and recover an effective formation, or even engage new opponents." And They Shall Know No Fear (BGB pg. 74): ".....Usually troops that regroup may not move normally and always count as moving whether they do or not, but these restrictions do not apply to models with this special rule."
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/18 02:39:34
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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It also depends on your interpretation of the rules. I always saw ATSKNF as a replacement effect. It doesn't add the 6 onto the 3, it replaces the 6 with the 3.
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2007/09/18 03:14:19
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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I've always seen ATSKNF playing as replacing the consolidate move with being allowed to move normally.
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2007/09/18 12:50:33
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot
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I concur, Mannahnin, Foda_Bett. I always saw RAW as meaning that you may move normally instead of Consolidating, but hey, if someone can reasonably convince me otherwise, I'll go along with it. My Templars need every bit of help they can get.
CK
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill
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2007/09/18 14:25:57
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Sneaky Lictor
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I think they're actually playing it wrong.... And They Shall Know No Fear (BGB pg. 74): ".....Usually troops that regroup may not move normally [they consolidate instead] and always count as moving whether they do or not, but these restrictions do not apply to models with this special rule." Troops with ATSKNF do not have the 'may not move normally' movement restriction. Hence they may not consolidate. Instead, they get their normal 6'' movement. -Yad (Bold text inserted for clarity)
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2007/09/19 07:41:54
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Executing Exarch
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I'm with Yad and the rest on this one. The non-normal movement doesn't apply so they don't get to consolidate. They get to move normaly instead.
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**** Phoenix ****
Threads should be like skirts: long enough to cover what's important but short enough to keep it interesting. |
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2007/09/19 09:26:35
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I still think the Marines get a 9 inch move, simply because of this statement: "If the unit successfully passes it's Leadership test, it regroups. It cannot move any further during that Movement phase, except that models are allowed to consolidate (see page 44)." There are no ifs, ands, or buts about this statement in the rules; If you pass your leadership, you may consolidate. You may NOT move or fire weapons which do not allow you to move and fire, UNLESS you have a rule which allows you to. You can add text to the ATSKNF rule all day, but that won't change what it actually says.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/19 09:36:53
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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except that your quote indicates that cosolidation is a movement, and nothing in the ATSKNF idicates that you may make both your normal move and consolidation move, so yes Marines can consolidate after regrouping, but that would count as their movement, and they could move no further.
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2007/09/19 09:40:59
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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No, the quote says that Regrouping is movement, barring more except consolidation. ATSKNF allows normal movement after regrouping. Until you can quote a rule anywhere that divorces consolidation from regrouping, marines get 9" of movement after falling back.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2007/09/19 10:33:07
Subject: RE: 9" move for marines?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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nothing in that quote indicates that regrouping is consolidating, the only link they have is that you can only consolidate after regrouping. the quote actually says you regroup and then may not move except to consolidate, which is to say that when you move that unit it may only consolidate, it at not point grants them to consolidate ontop of anything else. furtheryou can't combine the consolidation move and the normal to make more then the units maximum move distance as you can only "move any or all models in the unit up to their maximum move distance(15)"
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