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Ground rules:

1. No traits
2. Single force org.
3. Give reasons for choice.

My 1st choice is the Predator Annihilator w/ lascannon sponsons

• It is cost effective; for 145 points you get 3 lascannons, one of them is twin-linked.
• It is tough; it has a 13 AV.
• It is mobile; it can move and fire the turret.
• It controls the battlefield; it has a range of 48".
• It is size 3, so it can shoot over a hill or terrain.
• It doesn't have to roll target priority checks.
• can benefit from obscurement
• counts as scoring unit
• absorbs enemy heavy weapons fire (can be good thing for transports)
• drawback, one shot can knock it out.

My second choice is 2 attack bike w/ multi-meltas

• 130 points for two multimeltas that can move 12" and fire, priceless
• can use terrain to gain position
• toughness 5 and two wounds apiece.
• turboboost!
• counts as scoring
• drawback, short range.

6 Man Las/Plas

-Cheap
-Durable
-Hard to make non-scoring
-Effective vs Tanks & heavy infantry
-Can be taken in multiples
-Easy to sacrifice when caught in bad situation

Downsides - Can be locked in assault and die

Don't forget that Pred can get crew shaken.

Rather than Las/Plas a combination:
- 5/6 man Devastator w/ 2/3 Lascannons
- coupled with 6 or 10 man tac, veteran and command squads w/ no heavies but each has a melta gun

- no crew shaken
- tac squads are one dimensional and free to move

And if you want to talk attack bikes, don't forget you can give Assault Squads and Bike squads Meltabombs. I wouldn't say the Attack Bikes have that much of a short range w/ turbo boost and 12" move.

That depends what you class as tank ... AV12 and AV14 aren't the same target type, and neither are skimmer tanks. Also, anti-tank isn't just a plugin, you need to consider the army as a whole. I think you realise this as you are also talking about battlefield control, etc, so the question you are asking isnt just "what is best in terms of points efficiency". Therefore post some kind of list, to give context, and I'll give some suggestions.

[edit: typos fixed]

I refuse to answer the question.

Marines are not about single units having specialist roles its about having multiple units covering specific roles at different ranges. Marines have four anti tank options, lascannon just about anywhere, multimeltas on fast attack, melta guns in tacticals and melta bombs on assault marines. Terminators, unless they all have lightning claws, afe also good if they get close enough. The trick with marines is to take a mix of several units that can do a job in one of several ways.

Its also why I dont like relying on a Pred Annihilator to do the job for you.
If you want a Pred take a Destructor with lascannon sponsons (while you still can afford them!). Its cheaper and more efficient in my opinion. The four shots is better because if you need more than two lascannon tyo do a job the job is too big for the single tank. Whereas a Pred Destructor has anti tank, anti skimmer and anti infantry capability at once. There, I gave you an answer after all.

@Orlanth, I'll put you down for the pred destructor w/ lascannon sponsons for the reasons you listed

• better against skimmers
• more shots (autocannon)
• cost effective

@bluedragon, don't parlay with me, just answer the fooking question!

if you want to break it down for skimmer, AV12, or AV14, fine by me, but you are not getting a list for context; so get off your high horse and put your best unit on the line.  Think of it this way, if you were going to a GT and you were playing marines, what single unit would be your first purchase for the anti-tank role, period.  Or, step off and start your own post on the best anti-skimmer unit or some other hyper-specific, symbiotic, wholistic approach.

PS~ don't get all bent, just playful humor, bluedragon.  Seriously, just put down a marine anti-tank unit that you feel is a must have and why.

@bluedragon, don't parlay with me, just answer the fooking question! Think of it this way, if you were going to a GT and you were playing marines, what single unit would be your first purchase for the anti-tank role, period.

I am sorry but it doesn't work that way.

1) I You haven't even said what kind of marines you are using - shooting, assault, or drop pod?  Pod marines don't even start on the table. How does that affect your choice of a tank over an infantry squad?

2) At a GT the local metagame will come into force. What army lists are you expecting to face in quantity? If there are lots of tyranid large creatures, you want different antitank from (say) lots of eldar or lots of tyranid swarm creatures. Now I hear that the midwest USA is all nidzilla so there was a lot of it at Chicago GT. The forthcoming USA GT - what area is that, and what will be the most common list?

Then there is also the case of whether you have tuned the army to be a) generally good, or b) tuned the army to be less good but specifically strong vs a very popular enemy (an average army with strong anti-nidzilla perhaps) or c) whethere there is a specific weakness it has that you need addressing (perhaps - I will win unless he has 100+ men, or I will win unless the mission is Escalation ... so my antitank will be weighted towards rate of fire AT weapons or based aboard mobile troop units)

3) And is the GT 1750 points like the US, or 1500 points like the UK? Believe it or not similary built armies play different at those point values, due to the fact that at 1750 you can mass units that you cant mass at 1500, due to cost.

So to quote Orlanth - I can't or won't answer that question at this stage.

All right, dornsfist. You asked for it. My first antitank choice would be:
6 man las/plas tactical squads
Why?  Cheap, durable, reliable, powerful.

I also wouldn't hesitate to add:
4 man terminator command squads with two assault cannons, a chainfist, auspex, and tank hunters (and a character, of course!).
Why?  Flexible, powerful, durable, maneuverable.

"I am sorry but it doesn't work that way."

This is not a flame, bluedragon, but it's my post.  I understand all your grandiose metagaming philosophies, the fact that units don't function in a vacuum, the concepts of coordinating tactical units, 1750 points versus 1500 points, UK versus USA, blah blah blah.  I get it, the post wasn't specific enough for you.  But if your nose wasn't so far up Orlanths arse, you would see that he gave an answer despite the lack of specifics .  He made his point about the nuances of marine units, I clarified that the post is simply looking for what individual people feel is their best anti-tank unit.  I don't want to complicate the post.  It is simply what anti-tank unit players feel is best for all-comers.  If you want to start a better post that's more specific, be my guest.  If you don't feel this post is up to your high standards, stop posting here, you made your point, I get it.

OK, my rant is over.  Here is my olive branch just for you bluedragon.

The following restrictions/nuances/specifics are only for bluedragon, AND BLUEDRAGON ONLY!

Bluedragons best anti-tank vanilla marine unit he would use in a:

• GT in the good ole US of A
• 1750 points
• Baltimore in 3 weeks
• take all comers
• shooty style

Thank you for responding.  Feel free to match my level of humorous sarcasm, I have thick skin and over the age of 21. 

Posted By dornsfist on 10/15/2007 4:16 PM

OK, my rant is over.  Here is my olive branch just for you bluedragon.

The following restrictions/nuances/specifics are only for bluedragon, AND BLUEDRAGON ONLY!

Bluedragons best anti-tank vanilla marine unit he would use in a:

• GT in the good ole US of A
• 1750 points
• Baltimore in 3 weeks
• take all comers
• shooty style

Thank you for responding.  Feel free to match my level of humorous sarcasm, I have thick skin and over the age of 21. 

2-3x Terminator Squads with 2 assault cannons
5-6x Las/Plas tactical squads
1-3x Tornado Speeders

How many points is that?

Throw in a hand-to-hand HQ unit, tune the quanties and good luck in Baltimore :-)

All are capable of anti-tank ... as for which one of those units actually gets the tank kill ... well, that depends on circumstances - and I can think of a better antitank marine unit, but you won't be playing it in that list

Posted By dornsfist on 10/14/2007 8:25 PM

@Orlanth, I'll put you down for the pred destructor w/ lascannon sponsons for the reasons you listed

• better against skimmers

Not quite AC on average gets .44 glances

TL lascannon gets on average .59 Glances

Posted By skyth on 10/15/2007 5:54 PM

Posted By dornsfist on 10/14/2007 8:25 PM

@Orlanth, I'll put you down for the pred destructor w/ lascannon sponsons for the reasons you listed

• better against skimmers

Not quite AC on average gets .44 glances

TL lascannon gets on average .59 Glances

Lol - I like how you subconsciously equate skimmers with av12.  Played against eldar recently ?

I play Eldar

But most of the dangerous skimmers are AV12

The TL LC is equal against AV 10 skimmers (8/9) and Better against AV 13 skimmers (4/9 vs 1/9)

Tau skimmers are also Av12.

However I dont put too much weight behind the stats here. .44 vs .59 glancing, fair enough but it costs more and you already have two lascannon on the tanks. Three and a half lascannon is in my opinion overkill (except vs Falcons where you have to be lucky just like everyone else.) Two lascannon ad an autocannon is good multi role firepower that just happens to be very good at taking down tanks.

I'd rather have all 3 Lascannons, because it's quite likely that at a tournament I'll go from Eldar (where the Autocannon-Las sponsons aren't bad) to fighting Tau, where vs AV13 I want the all Las, and vs. Nidzilla, where again I want the 3 Las.

Best anti-tank for marines? If you don't mind vehicles, I love my Hellfire Venerable Dreads with tank hunter. They move, they fire, they reroll damage, they have smokes, and they are tank hunters. It just doesn't get sexier than that. Also, as opposed to the arguably "too much" pred annihilator, you get just the right firepower, and it never stops moving.