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I know there is another topic going around but rather than have my thoughts lost in the suace I decided to post a new one with my view on what to do.  There are some good thoughts in the previous one but here are mine. 

Usually whenever I post that IG are possibly(Definately now, with the new ork codex coming out) the most underpowered army, the response I get is that "Any army can be overpowered if you cheese 'em enough"  I have yet to be able to "Cheese" a guard army that actually WORKS all the time.  If that were the case why would GW bother coming out with all these knew codices.  Clearly some armies *cough *cough Chaos were made weaker-Thank the emperor- and others were made stronger as the new books come out.  As an IG player and a rather successful one, although on hiatus at the moment here are my thoughts.

 

HQ

HSO 45; SO 35; JO 25

If accomanied by a retinue of 4-6 guardsmen at  6 points each, officers ARE NOT IC otherwise they are.  If the squad is wiped out then the officer reverts so being an IC. For 5 points upgrade to veterans.  All other options the same

ADVISORS rule: GONE, may be attatched to ANY unit but no more than two per squad and no more than one kind of advisor per.  Command squad may have up to 4 advisors and up to two of the same type.  Player may chose to make advisors independent or not.  All of one type must be IC or not.  EX:  All commissar must be IC or not.  However if Commissars are IC priests may or may not be depending on player's choice.

Commissars 25 points

Priests: 25 points WS 4

Support Squads

Sentinel squads: Same, SEE FAST ATTACK FOR NEW OPTIONS

Anti-tank: 25 points + Wpns

LC: 20 ML 15: Up to 3 additional members, 6 points each

Fire Support: 25 +wpns

HB: 10 AC: 15: Up to 3 additional members, 6 points each

Mortar Squad: 70, up to 3 additional members, 6 points each

Special wpn squads: 20 + wpns

Options all the same although up to 4 may have special wpns, no limit on demo charges, may take plasma guns at +8 points. Guardsmen Equipped with sniper rifles may operate independently.  Although not IC.

ELITES

Storm Troopers: Are equipped with Hellcarbines, may infiltrate and deep strike even if mission does not normally allow them to, may take up to 4 special wpns, storm troopers benefit from doctrines.  In addition may take up to 2 plasma cannons at 20 points each.  However these count as special wpn slots.

Hellgun==> Hell carbine S4 AP6 Assault 4 18", if 3 or less special wpns are taken, one storm trooper may be armed with up to 2 Demo charges. All other options the same.

Ratlings:  0-2 limit  3-10 per squad, may be broken up into 3 teams each. Each squad is one elite slot.

OGRYN: 20 points  WS4, BS3, T5, W3, S5(6), I4, L8 +5 Ogryn always test at base LD

Bone 'ead +10 WS5, BS3, T5, W3, S5(6), I4, L9, +5

     Bone 'ead has access to armory and may take "officer only" items.

Enginseers: Same, however, servitors do NOT count towards wargear limit. (As was changed in FAQ)

TROOPS

Infantry platoon: Same options and set up as before: However squads are 50 points + options

LC: 20, ML 15, AC 15, HB 10, Plasma 8, GL 6, Melta 8, Flamer 5, these new prices apply accross the board, for storm troopers, vets, conscripts, special wpn squads, retinues etc...

Hardened Veterans: Are Now A Troops Choice, No more 0-1 limit, it is now a 0-3 limit.  All options the same.  May infiltrate and Deep strike if mission permits. 

Veterans always test at base LD

Conscript Platoon: Same as before although option is now 20-50 members at 4 points each, no need to go in increments of ten.  Although special wpns options and other options still only work in increments of ten, so 40 members for 4 special wpns, 50 for 5. Same restriction of 1 per infantry platoon

Armored fist squad: Same as current however may be taken as fast attack as well. No restrictions.

FAST ATTACK

Hellhound: 100 points

Sentinel squad: 1-3 sentinels, all stats the same except: 25 points + Options, may take MutiLsr: 10/15, HF 5/8, HB 10/15, LC 20/30, ML 15/21, AC 15/21, Assault Cannon 15/21, Thudd gun 15 (Same stats and abilities as a mortar, cannot be twin-linked)  first number is standard price second is twin-linked price.  In addition Sentinels may have up to two hunter-killer missiles.  Vehicle Type: Walker-Fast-open topped

Rough Riders: WS4, BS3, T3(4), I3, W1, LD8, +5, RR come with Frag Grenades, Furious Charge.  All other options the same.

RR Vet sgt, may have a lance as well as a pwr wpn, and other ccw, in addition may select officer only items.  However he may not use the lance in conjunction with other wpn in same turn. If the first combat that RR are engaged in is against a vehicle or walker, the squad may attack with other wpns, such as melta bombs if they have been equipped with them.  Still have Fleeting + <st1:place w:st="on">Calvary</st1:place>.

Armored Fist Squad: See above

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">HEAVY SUPPORT:  [/b]

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Basilisk, LR, LRD[/b] all the same.

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Hvy Wpn Platoons[/b]:  Same leadership structure although 20 points + wpns, and follow options in Hvy support part of HQ section

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">New Doctrines: keep old ones plus: [/b]

Airborne Infantry:  Any unit that may deep strike may move, shoot and/or assault in the turn they arrive.  Cannot be used with Drop Troops.

 

Carapace armor: Reduced to 15 points

WARGEAR

Power fist: 15 points

Refractor Field: 10 points

Master Crafted wpn: 10 points

Enjoy.....There may be other changes that I have thought of in the past but they escape me at the moment.

Just off the top of my head:

how about the first Commissar has to join the Command platoon, and after that they're independent?

Lascannons are priced such that you're supposed to not want to take them, but they're still the best weapon. So how about this: in an infantry platoon, missile launchers, autocannons, heavy bolters, grenade launchers and flamers are FREE. After that it costs 15 to 25 points to add a lascannon and 10 to 15 points to add a plasma gun. Heavy weapon platoons would stay the same, possibly even lower for lascannons there. I don't know what would happen to special weapon and command squads, they seem OK.

Hardened vets as Troop is interesting, if for no other reason that it uses the Troop selections and frees up Elites. They could be 0-3, they could be like armoured fist and they could also be tied 0-1 or 0-2 to infantry platoons.

Your hellgun is a little nuts, the Tau carbine is 18" Assault 1. Mind you for 10 points you could compare them to Dire Avengers, 18" S3 Assault 2 isn't unreasonable, sort of a long barrelled shot gun.

I think if they just allowed taking the Baneblade once the plastic kit is available would be enough

1) Officially sanction FW within the core rules and restate it in every codex.

2) A nod to the RT era and change the RR's as well as IF's by making the Chimera and Horse/ Lance a squad option instead of completely different units in the FOC.
Mechanised doctrine? Check
New flavor? Cav/ Check

3) Advisors- HOLY HEY NOW!!! These need to be retooled completely.

4) Point Cost- If it's free, it's for me should not be a thought process in army selection. Give everything a point cost on a point/ model, not point/ squad. No free DT or COD.

5) Buffs- ID, COD, VOX, Commissar- Just let the fricking things stack already.

6) Gotta lower the cost of the stinking LC. I can't grasp why the same weapon is more expensive for BS 3 GEQ than BS 4 MEQ.

7) Standard Allies Matrix based on the rules in C: DH/ WH and Apoc. This adds flavor in the form of new armies as well as potential sales boosts.
IG+ NID = Genestealer Cult
IG+ Ork = Blood Ax or Freebooters
IG+ Chaos = LaTD
IG+ Tau = whatever the hell it's called
IG+ SM = Imperial Army based on Fluff
IG+ Eldar = more fluff....

8) more to come...

I would like to see something done to IG, the army feels like a red headed step child.

I'd like to see Guard revert backwards a bit to the RT era, the more people talk about it. Just a little. Keep the regimented feel but add an element of Hive Gangs etc.

Flagg,

the lascannon is an interesting point of arguement for the allocation of points,
The problem with guard is they can take so many of them it's crazy.

The availabilty far out ways that of the other races (by a mile)

If the points were only based on a single shot from 1 single model to balance everything then I agree that the Marine LC should be move expensive as it hits 17% more.

But,
Marines cannot possible take as many LC's due to the restrictions on the amount of models in a troops choice,
guard would be far more able to gather a plethora of LC's in a single platoon than most marine players can put in all of their troops choices.

And that's just 1 troops choice,
do that another 5 times!!

If heavy weapons are cheaper for guard they will start becoming even more massed than they currently are (and atm they can shoot most armies off the table)

:-)

Valid point Mak.

Cheaper anything for the Guard will end up with them bringing more weapons. Shooting, It's what they do.

"THEY DO KNOW FEAR"
they don't come stock with a decent SV
they're LD is weak
they have no business being in HtH combat
they don't have any organic psychic attacks/ defenses

They can give a nice sun tan when the flashlights are in rapid fire range. Other than that, it comes down to their special and heavy weapons to keep on firing, and missing, while the bullet catching lasgunners die horribly. Hence my opinion that their weapons costs need to be adjusted.

I disagree with your statement that they can shoot most armies off the board. The Mauleed Marines are still THE SAFH.

I can't take cred for that,
HBMC has been ranting on that point in our group for ages.

The irony is that he is the only real IG player and he was advocating an increase of points cost and people didn't like it,

hilarious!!
:-)

That is funny because I respect what H has to say about the IG. I'd say that this was the first IG thing I disagreed with him about.

Now, if we were talking about point increases for Doctrines, I'd be more than willing to do that. I firmly believe that nothing should be had for free and anything that's not worth paying points for should probably be junked... 75%+ of the current doctrines...

I was wondering what would be kind of an armored company feel but at the same time have infantry support them is to make the lemanruss available as part of a guard platoon.


Basically a Guard Platoon is the same as an infantry platoon but for every 2 squads of 10 guard infantry you can purchase one of the following tanks: Hellhound, Sentinel, Lemanruss, or Griffon

it does give the Guard a chance at using an armored company but they have to purchase guard squads to.

I dont know that I like the idea fluff wise as far as squads entitling you to a LR