UK Politics

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**Stranger83**

Herzlos wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

If Scotland is going to be leaving the EU anyway (and they will, at least temporarily, because the rest of Europe has said that they will have to apply for membership) then why are you opposed to just being patient and waiting till BREXIT is concluded? Hell, Scotland unanimously withdrawing from the UK could even sabotage BREXIT and severely damage our negotiating position.

Why should we wait until the damage has been done to decide what we want to do?

We want to stay in the EU, so why wait until we've left to ask to get back in, instead of trying to stay in in the first place? If we need to leave temporarily, I'd rather that temporary window was as short as possible, and that we have the power/autonomy to minimize the damage.

Re. Sabotage - if you let us become independent, then you can do whatever you like, we're only going to try and resist it whilst you resist a referendum. It should be clear enough that we want to stay in the EU, so why wouldn't we resist leaving?

Actually it's the UK that is part of the EU, not Scotland. If Scotland left the UK it would also leave the EU, it would then need to make a separate application to join the EU. This is important to note because as a new applicant to the EU it'll be required to follow all the EU rules, including joining the Euro and the Schengen area and what not.

Now again it is up to Scotland what it does and doesn't decide, and if there was a general mood of the Scottish people that they wanted a second referendum* then they should have one - but to pretend that if they left before Brexit they would just continue with EU membership is plain wrong

*As I've previously pointed out, the general consensus is that if an IndyRef was held now it would result in Scotland remaining in the UK so I don't see the need or purpose of a second referendum right now.

**Kilkrazy**

Scotland could possibly retain EU membership by grandfather rights.

**Herzlos**

Stranger83 wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

If Scotland is going to be leaving the EU anyway (and they will, at least temporarily, because the rest of Europe has said that they will have to apply for membership) then why are you opposed to just being patient and waiting till BREXIT is concluded? Hell, Scotland unanimously withdrawing from the UK could even sabotage BREXIT and severely damage our negotiating position.

Why should we wait until the damage has been done to decide what we want to do?

We want to stay in the EU, so why wait until we've left to ask to get back in, instead of trying to stay in in the first place? If we need to leave temporarily, I'd rather that temporary window was as short as possible, and that we have the power/autonomy to minimize the damage.

Re. Sabotage - if you let us become independent, then you can do whatever you like, we're only going to try and resist it whilst you resist a referendum. It should be clear enough that we want to stay in the EU, so why wouldn't we resist leaving?

Actually it's the UK that is part of the EU, not Scotland. If Scotland left the UK it would also leave the EU, it would then need to make a separate application to join the EU. This is important to note because as a new applicant to the EU it'll be required to follow all the EU rules, including joining the Euro and the Schengen area and what not.

Now again it is up to Scotland what it does and doesn't decide, and if there was a general mood of the Scottish people that they wanted a second referendum* then they should have one - but to pretend that if they left before Brexit they would just continue with EU membership is plain wrong

*As I've previously pointed out, the general consensus is that if an IndyRef was held now it would result in Scotland remaining in the UK so I don't see the need or purpose of a second referendum right now.

Scotland is currently in the EU, regardless of the semantics involved. There's also been no precedence for states wanting to leave the EU, either in full or part.

So it's not impossible for Scotland to essentially remain in the EU, when England leaves, even though it'll likely go though a small flux period where it's technically neither.
Ideally, we'd keep our position identical and take over the UK's seat at the table, with an appropriate reduction in whatever is required due to the population change.

Europe seems pretty keen on having Scotland as a part of it, so I don't expect them to be too harsh towards us. We may need to drop some of the UK's prior exemptions but that's fine. Any shafting we get from joining the EU will be nothing like the shafting the tories will give us, anyway.

**Kilkrazy**

Something to bear in mind is that there is no set procedure for a state to leave the EU, and something is going to have to be worked out during the Brexit negotiations. There is no reason why this should not involve Scotland remaining an EU member and withdrawing from the Union.

**Korinov**

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/lse-brexit-non-uk-experts-foreign-academics

England prevails indeed.

**BigWaaagh**

Well, now that there's a Brexit timetable it's getting fun to watch the Sterling markets again. Nice little "flash crash" today on stop hunting. I'm waiting for GBP/USD parity and it's going to be Forge World time, big time!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-forex-idUSKCN127010

**Herzlos**

BigWaaagh wrote:
Well, now that there's a Brexit timetable it's getting fun to watch the Sterling markets again. Nice little "flash crash" today on stop hunting. I'm waiting for GBP/USD parity and it's going to be Forge World time, big time!

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-forex-idUSKCN127010

It's definitely a good time to be buying anything that's already in the UK

**Compel**

I see the users of Facebook today are trying to get Theresa May arrested for inciting racial hated today. What have I missed now?

**Future War Cultist**

A weak currency is great for exports. Yes, including forge world. What's the problem?

And trying to get May arrested for that is just pathetic.

**Herzlos**

Compel wrote:
I see the users of Facebook today are trying to get Theresa May arrested for inciting racial hated today. What have I missed now?

Essentially, Home Secretary Amber Rudd has come up with some crazy idea that companies should have to declare how many foreigners they employ.
May has said something along the lines of citizens of earth are citizens of nowhere.

No-one is going to get arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Future War Cultist wrote:
A weak currency is great for exports. Yes, including forge world. What's the problem?

It's awful for imports.

**A Town Called Malus**

Korinov wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/lse-brexit-non-uk-experts-foreign-academics

England prevails indeed.

Our government is fething slowed and has absolutely no fething clue how the academic world works.

**Goliath**

Future War Cultist wrote:
A weak currency is great for exports. Yes, including forge world. What's the problem?

And trying to get May arrested for that is just pathetic.

Good thing we have everything we'll ever need to survive available from British sources then!

I mean, I was under the impression that the value of a nation's currency crashing was a bad thing, as do most experts, but I guess we're still tired of experts.

**Future War Cultist**

@ Goliath

The pound has been overvalued for years. Probably because of the ongoing disaster that is the Euro, which made it look more attractive for investors. It's now dropping down to its 'true' value, and is still stronger than the euro which is only worth about 90p. And although imports will be more expensive, this can be balanced out by the increased revenue from cheaper exports. Our money is worth less but we'll have more of it. 6 twos equals 3 fours after all.

This is all basic economics you know.

**tneva82**

Goliath wrote:
Future War Cultist wrote:
A weak currency is great for exports. Yes, including forge world. What's the problem?

And trying to get May arrested for that is just pathetic.
Good thing we have everything we'll ever need to survive available from British sources then!

Last year UK brought in 40% of food outside and trend has been more and more. Keep this up and within generation over half is imported.

Finland has experience of crashing own value. Was disaster for common people. Maybe good for rich guys but for regular workers nightmare.

**welshhoppo**

We just need to find more things around here to export.

Quick America! Buy all the forgeworld you can!

**whembly**

welshhoppo wrote:
We just need to find more things around here to export.

Quick America! Buy all the forgeworld you can!

We're trying! It's still not cheap as a whole!

Feth... plastic crack is an addiction!

**welshhoppo**

whembly wrote:
welshhoppo wrote:
We just need to find more things around here to export.

Quick America! Buy all the forgeworld you can!

We're trying! It's still not cheap as a whole!

Feth... plastic crack is an addiction!

Quickly! Get everyone you know to buy 2 of these.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legio-Titanicus-Titan-Maniple

**whembly**

welshhoppo wrote:
whembly wrote:
welshhoppo wrote:
We just need to find more things around here to export.

Quick America! Buy all the forgeworld you can!

We're trying! It's still not cheap as a whole!

Feth... plastic crack is an addiction!

Quickly! Get everyone you know to buy 2 of these.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legio-Titanicus-Titan-Maniple

Jaysus... that's still $3,541.69!!!

Hmmmmmmmmmmm... I have a bonus at the end of the year...

**BigWaaagh**

tneva82 wrote:
Goliath wrote:
Future War Cultist wrote:
A weak currency is great for exports. Yes, including forge world. What's the problem?

And trying to get May arrested for that is just pathetic.
Good thing we have everything we'll ever need to survive available from British sources then!

Last year UK brought in 40% of food outside and trend has been more and more. Keep this up and within generation over half is imported.

Finland has experience of crashing own value. Was disaster for common people. Maybe good for rich guys but for regular workers nightmare.

Then there is the whole net wealth destruction thing that happens with a currency collapse.
Exporting will indeed enjoy a boost and hopefully that will spawn new business ventures and hiring, but the UK is heavily reliant on imports, the price increases of which will be felt much more immediately by the population than any windfall from increased export activity. Import price increases, typically, get immediately passed on to the consumer and benefits from increasing exports, typically, will be immediately enjoyed by the multinationals doing said activity, with little benefit initially to the population.
This is going to bite before it becomes a measurable benefit to Brits.

**Orlanth**

Its biti9ng now. The other problem is opportunistic profiting.

Brexit is used as an excuse to add 10% to the price of imports even before any changes occurred. the exchange rate drop being supplementary to that. The Uk has long had problems with this form of profiteering. Metrication back in the late 60's was an excuse for a huge markup, translating from shillings and pence to new pence meant an opportunity to round prices up and then some.

**Kilkrazy**

I remember the price of a Mars Bar going from 4 old pence to 2.5 new pence = 6 old pence.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Neil Hamilton was on the news

Neil bloody Hamilton!

Nooooooooooooooo!!

God help us. He's UKIP's leader in Wales!

Now, this is probably not news to most people here, but I can tell you, it was a rude shock for me, unless I did know and completely forgot about it.

We're doomed.

**Ketara**

Blair wants to come back to UK politics.

Tony Blair has said he feels "strongly" about the state of British politics and is considering whether there is a "role" for him in the future.

The former Labour prime minister told Esquire magazine he was concerned Britain had become a "one-party state".

He said the public faced a choice between a government pursuing a "hard Brexit" and an "ultra-left" Labour Party whose policies were out of date.

A spokesman for Mr Blair said he would not be returning to frontline politics.

Mr Blair merely wanted "to play a part in the debate because the true centre ground is vacant", the spokesman added.

Mr Blair, who has been critical of Labour's direction under Jeremy Corbyn, told Esquire that he was considering his own future and what role he could play at a turbulent time in British politics when the "centre ground" he represented was under threat.

"It's a tragedy for British politics if the choice before the country is a Conservative government going for a hard Brexit and an ultra-left Labour Party, that believes in a set of policies that takes us back to the 60s," he said.

"In the UK at the moment you've got a one-party state. When you put it all together, there's something seriously wrong.

"I don't know if there's a role for me... There's a limit to what I want to say about my own position at this moment. All I can say is that this is where politics is at. Do I feel strongly about it? Yes, I do. Am I very motivated by that? Yes.

"Where do I go from here? What exactly do I do? That's an open question."

He added: "There's been a huge reaction against the politics I represent. But I think it's too soon to say the centre has been defeated. Ultimately I don't think it will. I think it will succeed again.

"The centre ground is in retreat. This is our challenge. We've got to rise to that challenge."

God help us.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

God help us indeed, Ketara, if Blair and Hamilton are back in politics.

It feels like the 1990s. X-files re-make, a Clinton running for president, Blair and Hamilton in politics...

Help!!!

**Sarouan**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
God help us indeed, Ketara, if Blair and Hamilton are back in politics.

I have a genuine question, here; is it really that surprising to you?

Blair is clearly trying to play the "patriotic savior" card. And it seems quite a good time for it.

Not saying he's a good choice. Just saying these times are favorable for opportunists.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Sarouan wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
God help us indeed, Ketara, if Blair and Hamilton are back in politics.

I have a genuine question, here; is it really that surprising to you?

Blair is clearly trying to play the "patriotic savior" card. And it seems quite a good time for it.

Not saying he's a good choice. Just saying these times are favorable for opportunists.

It is surprising to me, because the man's reputation has been so badly damaged (justifiably so), he'd be lucky to get elected on a parish council.

Nobody would trust him to run a fish and chip van.

Still, Blair always had a brass neck, so maybe I shouldn't be that surprised.

But like that episode of Time Trumpet, I half expected to see Blair wandering around Baghdad telling everybody he's on the verge of finding WMD.

**Ketara**

Sarouan wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
God help us indeed, Ketara, if Blair and Hamilton are back in politics.

I have a genuine question, here; is it really that surprising to you?

Blair is clearly trying to play the "patriotic savior" card. And it seems quite a good time for it.

Not saying he's a good choice. Just saying these times are favorable for opportunists.

I know the man has delusions of grandeur, but he seems to outdo my expectations of them every time he makes an announcement.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

whembly wrote:
welshhoppo wrote:
We just need to find more things around here to export.

Quick America! Buy all the forgeworld you can!

We're trying! It's still not cheap as a whole!

Feth... plastic crack is an addiction!

What about the special relationship? What about our balance of payments?

Be a friend, help Britain, buy forgeworld. Tell all your friends and neighbours to buy it as well

**Kilkrazy**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Sarouan wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
God help us indeed, Ketara, if Blair and Hamilton are back in politics.

I have a genuine question, here; is it really that surprising to you?

Blair is clearly trying to play the "patriotic savior" card. And it seems quite a good time for it.

Not saying he's a good choice. Just saying these times are favorable for opportunists.

It is surprising to me, because the man's reputation has been so badly damaged (justifiably so), he'd be lucky to get elected on a parish council.

Nobody would trust him to run a fish and chip van.

Still, Blair always had a brass neck, so maybe I shouldn't be that surprised.

But like that episode of Time Trumpet, I half expected to see Blair wandering around Baghdad telling everybody he's on the verge of finding WMD.

You're the one who is always saying all the other politicians and policies are bag o gak. At least Blair won three elections.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Sarouan wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
God help us indeed, Ketara, if Blair and Hamilton are back in politics.

I have a genuine question, here; is it really that surprising to you?

Blair is clearly trying to play the "patriotic savior" card. And it seems quite a good time for it.

Not saying he's a good choice. Just saying these times are favorable for opportunists.

It is surprising to me, because the man's reputation has been so badly damaged (justifiably so), he'd be lucky to get elected on a parish council.

Nobody would trust him to run a fish and chip van.

Still, Blair always had a brass neck, so maybe I shouldn't be that surprised.

But like that episode of Time Trumpet, I half expected to see Blair wandering around Baghdad telling everybody he's on the verge of finding WMD.

You're the one who is always saying all the other politicians and policies are bag o gak. At least Blair won three elections.

Aye. He was a skilled con man.