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Howdy,

As I discussed in this poll thread here:

dakkadakka.com/CommunityForums/tabid/56/forumid/7/postid/200575/view/topic/Default.aspx

There are some pretty big changes in the rules for Gargantuan Creatures between the Apocalypse rules and the normal IA rules and I personally feel that playing a game with the two mixed together would be strange and kind of unfun (for me).


To that end, here are my proposed datafaxes for the Trygon, the Scythed Hierodule & the Harridan (the Tyranid GCs not covered in Apocalypse). All the changes that have been made to the statlines are attempting to mirror what was done to the Hierophant and the Barbed Hierodule: More deadly in CC and shooting, but easier to kill and for more points.



SCYTHED HIERODULE
 

POINTS: 500


WS:6, BS:2, S:10, T: 8, W: 6, I: 3, A: 6, LD: 10, SV: 3


UNIT: 1 Scythed Hierodule


TYPE: Gargantuan Creature


WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT: Two pairs of Scything Talons (+2 Attack included in profile), Bio-Acid Spray.


SPECIAL RULES:

Agile: In the Shooting phase the Hierodule may choose to either:

• Fire its Bio-Acid Spray and move an extra D6" (per the Fleet rule).
• Not fire its Bio-Acid Spray and move an extra 2D6" (per the Fleet rule).

WEAPON:

Bio-Acid Spray: Range: Template, S: 8, AP: 3, Type: Assault 1*

*To fire the Bio-Acid Spray place the template so that the narrow end is within 18" of the weapon and he large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. Bio-Acid Spray is then treated like any other template weapon.



TRYGON
 

POINTS: 400


WS:6, BS:2, S:10, T: 7, W: 6, I: 5, A: 7, LD: 10, SV: 3


UNIT: 1 Trygon


TYPE: Gargantuan Creature


WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT: Two pairs of Scything Talons (+2 Attacks included in profile) and a Bio-Electric Field.


SPECIAL RULES:

Agile: In the Shooting phase the Trygon may:

• Fire its Bio-Electric Field and move an extra D6" (per the Fleet rule).
• Not fire its Bio-Electric Field and move an extra 2D6" (per the Fleet rule).

Bio-Electric Field: The Bio-Electric Field provides a 6+ invulnerable save. The Trygon may instead use the Field as a shooting weapon in which case the invulnerable save may not be utilized until the start of the Trygon's next turn.

Deep Strike: The Trygon may be held in Reserve and may Deep Strike (using the Subterranean Tunnels special rule below) in missions where that special rule is being used.

Subterranean Tunnels: If the Trygon is Deep Striking, then the Tyranid player may place a single brood of Gaunts, Hormagaunts, Raveners or a Ripper Swarm in Reserve with the Trygon. Once the Trygon arrives, the Brood will automatically follow in the next turn, moving onto the table from the closest point to where the Trygon arrived in the previous turn, but where there are no friendly or enemy models present. If this means they would enter the table directly into an enemy unit, then they will move on in the assault phase and count as assaulting as normal.

If the Trygon arrives within 1" of an enemy model (and would therefore normally be destroyed), it is not destroyed but instead it is placed as normal, moving any enemy models out of the way, but placing them in base contact with the Trygon. The Trygon counts as having assaulted the enemy in the subsequent Assault phase. If the Trygon arrives within 1" of a Super-heavy vehicle, another Gargantuan Creature, into impassable terrain or off the table then it is destroyed as normal.


WEAPON:

Bio-Electric Field: Range: 18", S: 4, AP: 5, Type: Assault 2D6


NOTES:

• The Trygon's Scythe-Tail has not been included because it is effectively replaced by all Gargantuan Creatures' ability to make a 'stomp attack'.

• The Trygon no longer has an Assault move of 12" (just a normal 6 inches).

HARRIDAN
 

POINTS: 900


WS:5, BS:3, S:10, T: 8, W: 8, I: 5, A: 5, LD: 10, SV: 3


UNIT: 1 Harridan


TYPE: Gargantuan Creature


WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT: One pair of Scything Talons (+1 Attack included in profile) and two Bio-Cannons.


TRANSPORT: A Harridan may transport a single unit of Gargoyles of up to 20 models. It is treated as an open-topped vehicle for the purposes of deploying the embarked models. If the Harridan is killed with Gargoyles on it deploy them immediately, they do not suffer any extra damage or become entangled.


SPECIAL RULES:

Agile: In the Shooting phase the Harridan may:

• Fire both Bio-Cannons as normal.
• Fire one Bio-Cannon and move an extra D6" (per the Fleet rule).
• Not fire either of its Bio-Cannons and move an extra 2D6" (per the Fleet rule).

Gargantuan Flyer: At the start of each turn the Harridan may choose to spend a game turn as a Flyer (this player turn and the next player's turn). Otherwise, the Harridan moves as a Jetbike (including the ability to Turbo-boost). At the start of its turn if the Harridan is locked in combat with a Gargantuan Creature or Super-Heavy Walker it may still choose to act as a flyer, in which case it must immediately leave combat. The Harridan may also choose to begin the game in Strategic Reserve and enter play as a Flyer. Enemies always roll to hit against the Harridan using their normal BS, even if the Harridan is acting as a flyer.


Gargoyle Brood: If the Harridan is hit by a blast or template weapon while carrying a Gargoyle brood, they will be hit as well. A regular blast counts as hitting D3 Gargoyle models, a template or 5" blast counts as hitting D6 Gargoyle models, a 7" blast counts as hitting 2D6 Gargoyle models and a 10" blast or Hellstorm template counts as hitting 3D6 Gargoyle models. An apocalyptic barrage hits D3 Gargoyle models per die it gets to roll. Gargoyles being transported count as being in Synapse range and are therefore Fearless and cannot be otherwise be hit outside of templates and blasts.


WEAPON:

Bio-Cannon: Range: 48", S: 10, AP: 3, Type: Assault 6


NOTES:

• The Harridan's 'Scything Claws' attack has not been included because it is effectively replaced by all Gargantuan Creatures' ability to make a 'stomp attack'.

Whaddya think? Would you consider using these rules in Apocalypse instead of the normal IA ones?

Looks good, I like the Tyrgon, I'm thinking about getting one as a xmas present for myself, if I don't impulse buy that new vulcan tank instead.

Maybe have it be you can just deepstrike hormagaunts and raveners with it, since that's what's included in the formation datasheet? Or did it also list that other stuff too?

I think maybe the longer charge distance helps to show that it's so big and has a longer reach.. but maybe instead that could be represented as being able to have a kill zone bigger than 2"? Or is it like that already? shows how much I read the rules......

I like them! Well though out and messes well with other creatures like it.

The only thing I see is the hitting of blast weapons the HARRIDAN gargoyle broad. Remembering everything for each type of blast would be hard to do. I don't know what the solution is, but there has to be a simpler way.

Posted By Necros on 10/26/2007 8:57 AM
Looks good, I like the Tyrgon, I'm thinking about getting one as a xmas present for myself, if I don't impulse buy that new vulcan tank instead.

Maybe have it be you can just deepstrike hormagaunts and raveners with it, since that's what's included in the formation datasheet? Or did it also list that other stuff too?

I think maybe the longer charge distance helps to show that it's so big and has a longer reach.. but maybe instead that could be represented as being able to have a kill zone bigger than 2"? Or is it like that already? shows how much I read the rules......

Yeah, for the most part the Subterranean Tunnel rules were taken directly out of the IA book, including the types of unit that can follow it through the tunnels.

GCs are still only engaged with enemy models in base contact and enemy models within 2" of those models in base contact with the GC.

As for the charge distance, in the IA book the Trygon moves as follows

• 6" regular move.
• D6" fleet.
• 12" Assault move.

In my version (essentially the Apoc version of GCs), the Trygon moves as follows:

• 12 regular move.
• Either D6 or 2D6 fleet move (depending on whether it shoots the Bio-Electric field).
• 6" Assault move.

 

So as you can see the "new" version of the Trygon actually moves further than the old version, and more importantly, since it always gets to use its 12" regular move and fleet moves, it will move much, much more quickly when not near enemy units (because it isn't so dependent on being within charge range to move quickly).

 

Posted By Mahu on 10/26/2007 10:24 AM
I like them! Well though out and messes well with other creatures like it.

The only thing I see is the hitting of blast weapons the HARRIDAN gargoyle broad. Remembering everything for each type of blast would be hard to do. I don't know what the solution is, but there has to be a simpler way.

Yeah, that part is a little crazy. I guess it could be reduced to a simple D6 Gargoyle hits whenever the Harridan is hit by a blast/template weapon of any kind. . .or the rule could just be scrapped altogether.

The Gargantuan Squiggoth also carries troops and those troops never get hit by enemy fire. . .its just the Harridan is carrying the Gargoyles on its belly and it moves so much more quickly than the Squiggoth that it seemed a bit more fair to make them susceptible to blast damage (especially since that rule exists in the IA book, it just doesn't tell you how to figure out how to actually damage the Gargoyles, just that they are damaged by blasts).

 

How about just D6 for Blasts, and 2D6 for the 10" template. Easy enough.

Anyone know if there are datafaxes for the old 2nd ed Tyranid vehicles? Wouldn't mind being able to field them in Apoc.

Yak, I don't really like the gargoyles getting hit on the Harridan thing. That's a big negative for a transport. There are lots of other transports this could happen to, so there's no real reason to single this one out for it. If you want to balance it's speed, and you don't think 900 pts is enough , then increase the cost, don't nerf half it's function.

Posted By hotflungwok on 10/31/2007 12:43 PM
Anyone know if there are datafaxes for the old 2nd ed Tyranid vehicles? Wouldn't mind being able to field them in Apoc.

Yak, I don't really like the gargoyles getting hit on the Harridan thing. That's a big negative for a transport. There are lots of other transports this could happen to, so there's no real reason to single this one out for it. If you want to balance it's speed, and you don't think 900 pts is enough , then increase the cost, don't nerf half it's function.

Y'know, I pretty much agree. The rule is stupid and should be disgarded simply because it is difficult to remember and implement properly. Its just that the rule exists in the IA version of the rules so I was trying to mimic it, but I think in Apocalypse it really isn't necessary on second thought.

It will be interesting to see if they include the rule in the new IA apocalypse rules for the Harridan.

As for the 2nd edition Gargantuan Creatures, they came out with VDR datafaxes for all of them in the last CA Annual so it wouldn't be too hard to knock something out for 'em if you wanted.

I support the Trygon having the Stomp attack. Instead of calling it Stomp, how about considering the movement a Sweep instead?

like the harridan rules

I'm thinking about building one, using the nazgul-dragon-things...

someone knows about official rules?

Who dug up this 4 year-old thread?

Old thread... goodnight!