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Hi guys,

I've been really impressed with the debate and analysis on the prelim Orky codex (Possibly subject to change).

The opinion held by some is that the Nobz suck.  I think that this may be a premature view.

Here is a list that immediately strikes me with it's incredible beardiness, but also it's speed, power and resilience.

This is the basic list, which has a few holes.  I've then thought up a second list which I hope mitigates these issues.

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="277" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Warboss

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Slugga

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bike

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Eavy Armour

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Attack Squig

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Body

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Nobz

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

War Bikes

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Pain Boy

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Grot Orderly

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Bodies

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Eavy Armour

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bosspole

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Waaagh! Banner

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

2

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Shootas Skorcha Kombi Weapon

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Warboss

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Slugga

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bike

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Eavy Armour

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Attack Squig

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Body

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Nobz

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

War Bikes

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Pain Boy

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Grot Orderly

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Bodies

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Eavy Armour

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bosspole

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Waaagh! Banner

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

2

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Shootas Skorcha Kombi Weapon

</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Resilience: Each Nob has 4+ cover and armour save, 5++ save and Feel No Pain.  T4(5) is also handy.

Against Las cannons and such, the Warboss can take the hit (Sadly he does not also benefit from Feel No Pain when with the unit (Which goes against all the fluff, but there you go)), and he still gets a 4+ cover save.  So it takes 10.8 SM las cannon shots to kill the warboss, so plenty of protection for the Mob vs single las-cannons.

Rail Guns can go on a Nob: 3.2 Broadside rail gun shots to kill a Nob.  32 S5 shots (From whatever BS3 source) to kill a Nob.  24 S6 BS3 shots to kill a Nob.  19.2 S7 shots to kill a Nob.  48 BS3 S4 shots to kill a Nob.  96 BS3 S3 shots to kill a Nob.

So even against a hardcore shooty army I should get at least 14 Nobs + Warboss in (And you can bet your ass that will include the 5 power klaws!)

The cunning plan is to turbo boost forwards on turn 1, then on turn 2 assault whatever enemy units I feel like.

The Pain Boy and 6 Normal Nobz should kill 4.8 SMs at I4, leaving 9.4 SMs to be killed at I1 by the warboss and 2 Nob power klaws.  (Which may be over kill).

Just realised I forgot to delete 3 Nob attacks for shootas kombis.  Screw it, I also forgot to count for the approx 30 dakka gun  shots pre-assault as well...

The SMs (Assuming 9 with add hw) cause 0.75 Nob wounds, whilst a vet sarge with power fist kills 1.67 Nobs.  So Nob Bikers win.  Multiply this by 2 and you get approx 25 dead SMs on the turn you charge in (Would be 28 if I get another power fist in there).So once stuck in, the Nobs should do quite well.

However, I see a few problems.

Harlies.  If they charge, they get 40 attacks.  Rending alone kills 2.22 Nobs on average.  Other attacks cause 0.03W on Nobs (Harlies WS5 right?).  Warboss + 5 Nobs attack back should kill approx 6 Harlies.  So, as long as only 10 harlies attack (And he doesn't roll a stupid number of rending 6s, the Nobs can cope).

That said, the 3 Kombi flamers have 8" range.  Maybe the Nobs can whittle them down, and get the charge?  Same applies for stealers.

10 Terminators charge in.  (And the Nobs' trousers turn brown).  Nobs kill 1 termie at I3.  27 termie attacks claims 8 dead Nobs, whilst the Nobs + warboss kill 5 termies.  Uh oh.  So lots of PF termies are bad...

10 Power weapon termies charge in.  They cause a whopping 5 wounds at I4.  Nobs should just win it, and lose 2 more before wiping out the termies next turn.  So lots of power weapon termies is bad.

180 Ork Boyz with 6 PK Nobs.  A hard fight to be sure, but I'd hope to use my 60 dakka shots per turn to thin out the numbers and the 3 skorchas to cause major carnage before a late game assault.  Could work.

Lots of other examples, such as Mephiston, Death Company, etc, who are dead killy in combat.  My idea was to up one mob to 10 and replace 8 bikers with 2 units of 18 and 17 Storm Boyz with PK Nobs (+10 grots and runt herd as Troops 2).

But the Storm Boyz seem like easy fodder...

Also, darn Eldar skimmers.  I'll have to hope that the 14 S10 and 15 S9 attacks each turn can keep them shaken, or maybe even take out weapons and such...

Hmmm...

So what you guys think?

 

Cheers,

Gazzor

 

 

 

 

 

I see way too many line breaks.

And are you seriously proposing fielding an army consisting only of 20 bikes? What will you do against mech tau or eldar?

Your list format is way confusing. Could you make it a little more succinct? Anyway:
I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from. First off, I've never seen foot Harlies (though no doubt someone somewhere uses them). Expect a squad of 6 in a Falcon instead. They'll charge for 24 attacks, of which an average of 4 will rend, of which 2.67 will fail saves. An additional 12 will hit, of which 4 will wound, of which 2 will fail saves. That's 2.335 dead Nobz.

Anyway, as your own analysis shows, this list is neither beardy nor resilient. It's quite frankly a bottom-tier Ork list. An army that can't kill 20 bikes deserves to lose.

your plan on taking the las-cannon hit on the warboss is also wrong. You CANNOT take the hit on the warboss, you take the hit on the majority. The only time the warboss will take a lascannon hit is when the mob takes 11 hits from lascannons from one firing unit....not often.

Thanks for the comments guys.

My assumptions for the analysis.

24 harlie attacks, 4 rends, 2.67 wounds on Nobz.  Agreed.

Nobs are WS5 due to Waaagh! Banner.

12 harlie attacks hit, of which 4 were rends.  8 S4 hits.  S4 vs T5 is 2.67 wounds.  4+ armour save is 1.335 wounds.  Feel no pain  means 0.67 wounds take (Or 0.33 if I've still got my Grot Orderly available).

So Harlies definitely hurt, costing me 2 Nobs, but then my Nobs easily kill the Harlies, and I've still got all my power klaws available for crumping.

As to foot harlies.  I've been at a tourney with  30 harlies and 20 harlies in 2 Eldar forces.  They ended up playing each other in mid tables...

Harlies is definitely a worry for me.  All it takes is a freaky roll of 12+ rending 6s or somesuch and I'm in trouble.

Anyway, list has changed slightly.  Down to 19 models, but my turn 1 kill power is up to 34 dead SMs (6 shooting, 24 close combat), with each subsequent combat round killing 22 SMs (Obviously reduced due to attrition, but 18 SM kills per turn come from 6 models, so plenty of chaff to lose first).

Trying it out in 2 games this week, vs skimmer Eldar and 2 Lash Demons + 9 Oblits.  Will see how practice hammer plays out vs theory hammer.

Cheers,

Gazzor

Posted By Gazzor on 11/03/2007 9:44 PM

The cunning plan is to turbo boost forwards on turn 1, then on turn 2 assault whatever enemy units I feel like.

I'll leave comments about how good/bad to others, but:-

No posting costs, but was that a 1000 pt list, 1500 pts etc?

Why on earth spend all those points on eavy armor. The bikes gives you the same save anyway. outright wasted points.

Turbo boost doesn't give you a better save (barring flamers etc) - 4+ invulnerable vs 4+cover save, so unless you are hugging cover to stay out of LOS (tricky with lots of bikes I expect) then just move normally to get some shooting off on turn 1. you still have a 30" assault range by turn 2.

Thanks Puree.

My read-Fu was weak.  Has saved me loads of points.  Also just noticed big choppas are still 2 handed.  Not a problem.  I'll give them to the 6 Nobs with the shoota skorchas.

So I'm at the following:

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="277" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Warboss

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Slugga

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bike

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Attack Squig

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Body

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Nobz

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

War Bikes

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Pain Boy

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Grot Orderly

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Bodies

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bosspole

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Waaagh! Banner

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

2

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

3

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Shootas Skorcha Kombi Weapon

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

3

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Big Choppas

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Warboss

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Slugga

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bike

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Attack Squig

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Body

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Nobz

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

War Bikes

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Pain Boy

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Grot Orderly

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Cybork Bodies

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Bosspole

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

1

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Waaagh! Banner

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

2

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Power Klaw

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

3

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Shootas Skorcha Kombi Weapon

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="24%" height="16">

3

</td> <td width="76%" height="16">

Big Choppas

</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

This is 1470 points, which leaves me 30.  Maybe grab a war buggy for cheeky objective grabbing fun?

The 6 killy models are obviously the 4 Nobs and 2 Warbosses.  They kill 18 SMs per combat phase betwen them, which is pretty good.    (Gotta love the Waaagh! Banner.  Dirt cheap for the extra kill power).

The PK Nobs are protected by 28 T5 4/5++ save 4+ feel no pain ablative wounds.  Doesn't sound like much, but performs very well vs small arms and even S7 plasma.

The Warbosses will have to be careful where they go.  Dreads and Wraithlords are a bit risky...

The Big choppas allow my Nobs to wound SMs on 2+ and allows them to pose a realistic threat to light vehicles.  It also mitigates the loss of attacks due to the 6 kombi skorchas, which are to even up the sides before wading into 100+ termagants/ Orks, etc.

Any more comments welcomed.

Maybe I should drop 10 points of kit (1 skorcha big choppa combo) and get 10 grots with runt herd to deploy in escalation.  That way I'm not auto losing vs large numbers of infiltrators who can just block my board edge...

Cheers,

Gazzor

 

Gazzor, could you please try to post your list with fewer linebreaks, it's giving me a headache reading it.

I'd be less worried about the effect of lascannons and missile launchers than I would about massed bolter, shuriken, HB, scatter laser, burst cannon,plasma , missile pod, devourer death.  All of these could rapidly whittle your bikes down to nothing.  The list would bleed victory points.  1st kill one whole squad and then kill the other.

1 Warboss: Slugga, Power Klaw, Warbike, Cybork Body, Attack Squig

1 Warboss: Slugga, Power Klaw, Warbike, Cybork Body, Attack Squig

9 Nobz: All 9 Nobz are equipped with warbikes.
1 Nob upgraded to Painboy with Doc Tools, Grot Orderly and Urty Syringe
2 Nobz have Power Klaws + Sluggas, 1 Boss Pole
3 Nobz with slugga + choppas (The Red shirts)
3 Nobz with Big Choppas and Kombi Shoota Skorchas.


9 Nobz: All 9 Nobz are equipped with warbikes.
1 Nob upgraded to Painboy with Doc Tools, Grot Orderly and Urty Syringe
2 Nobz have Power Klaws + Sluggas, 1 Boss Pole
3 Nobz with slugga + choppas (The Red shirts)
3 Nobz with Big Choppas and Kombi Shoota Skorchas.

30 points left.
Will likely drop one Skorcha + big choppa Nob.
Then get 10 Grots + Runt Herd to counter being infiltrated off the board.

Also, I've worked out how many attacks it takes to kill a Nob.  So my guys can withstand a turn of shooting from most armies with minimal casualties.  Dark Eldar will smart a bit though... 

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="338" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

Shooting

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

S

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

To kill a Nob.

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

BS4

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

3

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.014

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

72

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

4

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.028

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

36

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

5

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.042

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

24

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

6

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.056

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

18

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

7

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.069

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

14.4

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

8

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.278

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

3.6

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.278

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

3.6

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

10

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.278

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

3.6

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

S

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

BS3

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

3

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.010

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

96

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

4

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.021

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

48

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

5

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.031

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

32

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

6

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.042

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

24

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

7

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.052

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

19.2

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

8

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.208

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

4.8

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

9

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.208

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

4.8

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

10

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.208

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

4.8

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="54%" colspan="2" height="16">

Close Combat

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

Rending

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.0555556

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

18

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

S8 Power Fist

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.2777778

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

3.6

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

S4 Power Weapon

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.0555556

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

18

</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="10%" height="16">

 

</td> <td width="36%" height="16">

S4 lightning Claws

</td> <td width="22%" height="16">

0.1041667

</td> <td width="32%" height="16">

9.6

</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

e,g, takes 18 SMs rapid firing to kill 1 Nob.  Not forgetting my 2 Feel no Pain rerolls thanks to the Grot Orderly.

Cheers,

Gazzor

Ah, right. I'd missed the banner. Also, I forgot to account for FNP in my calculations, doh!

Still not sure how you arrived at the result of your 40-attack calculation, but in any case you seem to be correct now. My worry would be this: Harlies rarely appear alone. In a competitive game, expect to be, for example, shot up by FDs, then charged by two squads of Harlies. I don't know if you could swing the combat back in your favour after that, PKs or no. Better yet, mechdar could just kite you indefinitely and wear you down at a rate of 1.25 Nobz per turn lost to pulse lasers, then charge you when you're low enough to be wiped out in a turn.

Also, still not sure what you can do against a Termie-heavy SAFH.


Hurm, all right. Those would be a problem, though at least you'd get the charge.

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 11/04/2007 8:54 AM

As to foot harlies. I've been at a tourney with 30 harlies and 20 harlies in 2 Eldar forces. They ended up playing each other in mid tables...

Hurm, all right. Those would be a problem, though at least you'd get the charge.

I doubt it, If you get in range to assault then the spotting roll shouldn't be to hard, 30 TL dakkacannon shots will kill a goodly chunk - a decent chance of all of a 10 man squad - before the charge.

I am not huge on TheoryHammer, but I love the list due to the number of bikers! I love the new ork Bikes and want to make up an entire army of them, themed along the lines of Mad Max, Imagine the ork version of Toecutta, 'Onny da boy, Mudgutz and of coarse Bubba Zenetti! Ok...I think I have sold myself on the idea.

Maybe...

I guess we'll see if the bike box is a reality or not before I make the decision!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

There are two things that will ruin your day.

S8 AP 4 or better shooting and any powerweapon/P-fist in CC. You don't get FNP against any weapon in CC that ignores armor saves or against shooting weapons that cause instant death.

Killing your Nobs will be the same as killing death company or plague marines. The trick is to limit the number of saves that you get to make. Your opponent will just have to concentrate fire and thats all it will take. Also, tar pit units will really ruin your charges. I just don't think you can put out enough firepower to whittle the guy down so that they will be unable to claim/contest objectives.

The problem is just too few models

Posted By Jayden63 on 11/04/2007 1:45 PM
There are two things that will ruin your day.

S8 AP 4 or better shooting and any powerweapon/P-fist in CC. You don't get FNP against any weapon in CC that ignores armor saves or against shooting weapons that cause instant death.

Killing your Nobs will be the same as killing death company or plague marines. The trick is to limit the number of saves that you get to make. Your opponent will just have to concentrate fire and thats all it will take. Also, tar pit units will really ruin your charges. I just don't think you can put out enough firepower to whittle the guy down so that they will be unable to claim/contest objectives.

The problem is just too few models

AP of the shooting is fairly irrelevant, barring flamers, sv 4+ or cover save 4+, even with flamers, InSv 5+.

I think lack of units is worse problem here than lack of models.  I'll be dropping 2 big choppas and investing in 10 grots + runt herd to act as a cheap objective holder.  With LD7 rerollable and in 4+ cover they may actually survive some shooting (Which isn't then going at my bikes).

Not worried about tar pits.  I've got 6 skorcha combi shootas to put a hurting on them, as well as 60 S5 shots (Sadly not TL as far as I can see) and 14 S4 shots to finish up.

Then in combat my guys are killing 40 Orks on the charge.  This is with power klaws switched off, so all kills happening at I4 and I5.  Thereafter my guys are killing 25 Orks per combat phase at I3 and I4 (Keep power fists turned off).  So that's 50 dead Orks per game turn, hopefully keeping PKs out of combat.

My guys can also kill 31 Imperial Guard per combat phase at I3 and I4.  So will take some strikes back, but it takes 96 WS3, S3 attacks to kill a Nob Biker, so they should all die before my guys do.  (Approx 60 dead guard per player turn.  Should wipe out a Guard horde by turn 4).

A big worry is Nidzilla.  I can be looking at losing 6-7 Nobs at the nasty 18" dakka range, but then my boys hit home and can kill 4 2+ save carnifexes in one turn, but I then lose another 2-3 Nobs, plus facing counter assault from stealers the next turn.  Would be a blood bath of a game.

My list should stomp over most armies (Including Tau happily enough) but will have tough games vs Eldar and Nids.  Books also written by Phil Kelly.  Strange how all 3 books he's written are balanced with each other...

Cheers,

Gazzor

 

Posted By Gazzor on 11/04/2007 3:33 PM

Not worried about tar pits.  I've got 6 skorcha combi shootas to put a hurting on them, as well as 60 S5 shots (Sadly not TL as far as I can see) and 14 S4 shots to finish up.

Why not TL - the unit entry says nob bikers are mounted on warbikes. The warbike description in the gear section points you at the description on P(biker page) which has the rules for warbikes, clearly stating warbikes have TL dakkacannons?

Hi Puree,

The warbike description page 46 lists it as twin linked Dakka gun, but the description in the unit summary on page 101 does not say twin linked (Unlike the buggy and Deff Kopta entries, which do).

So which entry has priority?

Shame as I'd have liked 67% more firepower.  :S

 

OR, maybe I can argue that it is the rubbish normal Orks who get the non twin linked dakka guns on page 101, whilst the Nobs get to ride the warbikes from page 46.

Sheer genius.  Thanks dude. 

 Cheers,

Gazzor

Posted By Gazzor on 11/05/2007 2:59 PM

Hi Puree,

The warbike description page 46 lists it as twin linked Dakka gun, but the description in the unit summary on page 101 does not say twin linked (Unlike the buggy and Deff Kopta entries, which do).

So which entry has priority?

Shame as I'd have liked 67% more firepower.  :S

 

OR, maybe I can argue that it is the rubbish normal Orks who get the non twin linked dakka guns on page 101, whilst the Nobs get to ride the warbikes from page 46.

Sheer genius.  Thanks dude. 

 Cheers,

Gazzor

um, 101 is the wrabikER entry, not the warbike description. You are not taking warbikers, but Nobz on warbikes. Just as a Marine character on bike does not look at the marine biker description to see what he gets on the bike but at the bike description in the wargear section.

Also the warbikers get dakkaguns and warbikes. warbikes again clearly state in their description that they come with twin link dakkaguns. The fact that the ork gets a dakka gun (or any other weapons) doesn't invalidate his twin link dakka gun on his warbike.

I think it won't be enough just to take all the weapons off the skimmers - I would fear tank shock against eldar (and maybe tau) with this army. One str 8 power klaw attack is not likely to stop an eldar skimmer (.5 chance to glance plus 3/36 chance of actually stopping it = one dead nob) and after a nob or two dies you're at leadership 9 or even less if the warboss is not joined or let to die. Thats a big unit to get escorted off the board by those damn skimmers. I may be missing something, but I don't think you can count on your dudes getting into combat once they start taking losses, I don't think they're fearless.

Otherwise, I've played against an army with a squad like this and it is brutal to kill, the survivability is through the roof.

You'll obviously have trouble with missions that expect you to contest multiple objectives for lots o' points...a buggy or two may help that, or deffkoptas or something.

Massed fire may also make your Painboy not last as long as you want (but I don't know whats going to cause 10 wounds at toughness 5). If your opponent causes enough wounds, they can force you to take a save on the painboy, and if your painboy fails (unlikely but if they're massing fire they can do it more than once) then subsequent wounds need to come from the painboy first until he's dead since you can't just spread the wounds out in the multi-wound unit. At least, that is how I understand the rule for units with multiple-wound models.

Hi all,

Managed 6 games now with my bad boy bikers.

Two wins vs triple fire prism Eldar.
1 huge loss and 2 draws vs 2 lash princes and 9 oblitarators + 3 x 5 plague marines with power fists (We managed 3 games in 2 hours).
Closest game was Recon. I was left with 1 warboss, 1 wounded warboss and 9 grots + herder (In his DZ) vs 5 plague marines in my DZ.
1 loss vs Necrons (I let him choose mission and level). He chose Omega Cleanse. He stayed well away from my guys, and I lost half my force when I failed a LD8 rerollable morale check. Bah.

I've changed my list now. I've still got 2 bike warbosses, 2 x 9 Nob bikers. Also, 3 x kannons, 1 twin big shoota buggy. 6 scoring units and some more long range fire power.
I've dropped the skorchas and big choppas as 2 PKs per squad is plenty of kill power, and anything soft enough to kill with skorchas is soft enough to squish in CC.

Am playing vs Tau tomorrow. I hope to do well.

Good point on the painboy lambadomy. One solution is to hice him behind terrain, but within coherency of the unit. Then he's not a viable target to be hit (I think).

Not too worried by tank shocking skimmers. I just move aside and charge them next turn. LD9 rerollable is pretty solid.


Cheers,

Gazzor

Your list is confusing. Are the nobs on bikes? and they have Cybork bodies I take it. I dont know whats going on here. Where are your boyz?

His biker war boss allows him to take a unit of nobs or meganobs as troops so hes got 2 warbosses and 2 squads of nobs on bikes as troops

For the confused by the posting, the core of the list is :

2 warbosses on bikes

2 squads of 9 nobz on bikes with cybork bodies, a bosspole, a waaagh banner, a painboy, 2 power klaws and 2 combi scorchas

A warboss allows one squad of meganobz or nobz to be taken as a troops choice, so theoretically two warbosses allow two squads of nobz to be taken as a troops choice.

Thats the whole army, with minor additions to have extra scoring units

The idea is this is two 20 wound squads with 5 toughness, 4+ armor, 4+ cover, and 5+ invulnerable saves and feel no pain, making them kind of hard to kill.

Hi all,

The list is now:

2 Bike Warbosses
2 x 9 Bike Nobs
3 x 1 Kannons
1 Twin big shoota buggy.

6 scoring units.

Played vs Tau last night. I got first turn and turbo boosted forwards 24" to be within 1" of his army.
He shot his entie army at me (Rail Head, Ion Head, 2 Broadsides, 2 boss suits, 6 fire knife suits, piranha, 6 fire warriors, 14 kroot, 6 stealth suits).
I lost 1 Nob from one squad and a wound off the other squad...

My Nobs rampaged through his army, losing 2 more to his shooting. He did try two tank shocks on me, but I passed both LD8 rerollable tests.
The Ion head was shot down by a kannon, whilst the Rail Head was hit 4 times by my S10 power klaw boss and died.

He conceded on turn 5 when he was left with a boss suit, 4 fire warriors, 14 kroot and a piranha.
I'd lost 2 kannons, 6 Nobs (3 dead from dangerous terrain. 3 dead Nobs from each unit, so both still scoring) and a warboss.

So a big win for me.

I was checking through my rules after the game and I note that dangerous terrain causes a wound with no saves allowed. However Feel no Pain isn't a save, merely a way of negating wounds on a 4+ roll. Hmmm....


Cheers,

Gazzor

seems like a strong list. just watch out for imperial guard - one or two bassies gonna mess the party. just a little 5+ save, instakills then.

I can't comment on your whole army, since I have yet to face an Ork on Bike army yet. But I have played 4 games against the orks so far, and I wanted to make some comments about Nobz.

The opinion held by some is that the Nobz suck. I think that this may be a premature view.

Since our Ork player has gotten ahold of the new codex, he's played 10+ games (against Space Wolves, Grey Knigths, Eldar, and Chaos). He's lost 2. One against Space Wolves, the other against Eldar. I've done 4 of those games, and I've had one of those wins.

In every one of those games, he brings a 10 man Nob unit with a Painboy. They have the Cybork bodies as well as Feel No Pain. That unit has consistently been the MVP of the game. In those games he's played, only twice has that unit been brought below half strength. Their expensive as hell, no doubt at all. But there really is no single out there that can stand up to them in close combat (with the possible exception of a terminator with PF/Thunderhammer squad).

I was yesterday forced to throw a Dire Avenger squad led by Asurmen, a Wraithguard squad with a Farseer and Warlock, and a Striking Scorpion squad with a Claw, into close combat with them just to get that unit below half strength. Shooting them isn't really an option when their truck can move 24 inches a turn. Sure, the truck is only armor 10, but hey, most of the time if you make it explode, they won't be pinned, and you might be lucky enough to inflict 1 wound on them with the explosion (thats if you can figure out which truck their in). So usually by the time you get that truck to explode, their within charging distance already. If they get that charge on you, it's game over. 40 attacks on the charge (usually hitting on 3's) at str 7. Sure, you get your armor saves, but you'll lose 3 or 4 people if not more. Then in your return attacks, they get their 5+ invuln and Feel No Pain, on top of 2 wounds a peice. It's extremely hard to win combat against these guys.

From what I've seen so far, those Nobs are worth every bit of their points. Their scary as hell in close combat. Their near impossible to kill. My friend (ork player) and I where discussing it last night, and we both believe that the 10 man nob unit with pain boy and great weapons (big choppa's or whatever) is without a doubt the best close combat unit in the game now.

Hmm. Looks like I may have to change my tune. I guess it's one of those things you have to experience to understand.

One quick point. The warbikes get a 4+ cover save vs the bassies, or a 4+ invulnerable if I turbo boost (Important vs heavy flamers).

I haven't actually played vs IG at a tourney or down the club for 2 years. The meta game is too much against them. 40k seems to be about mobile fire power and objective grabbing and IG suffer from being too static, IMO.

If I do face IG with 2 bassies then I'll just have to hope for 1st turn and get into their minimum range, lose 3 or 4 guys, then snot them in turn 2 onwards.

The GW store manager has told me that the proper codex is in store from mid December to look through. So I'll look through, check that nothing has changed between the preview copy and the final version and then get started on building my 20 mad ass bikers.

It will be a good contrast to my Nids. Fast instead of slow, close combat instead of shooting.


Cheers,

Gazzor

IG will just keep feeding you small, cheap squads to tie you up thru your combat phase, then shoot you in their shooting phase before feeding you another cheap squad to keep you tied up thru the next turn.