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Hey everyone,

I haven't played 40k since 3rd edition, and I'm considering doing a little project, especially in light of the new Ork codex that's being released.  So since I have zero experience with 4th edition, I come to ask the wise tacticians at Dakka what some of the optimal equipment is for Tac Squads.

I've heard of the six man las/plas squads.  Is this the only thing worth doing for tactical squads?  Using the basic Space Marine codex, what are the common configurations (including squad size), and what are they used for?  What should I be equipping my Veteran Sergeants with?  Bolters and Powerfists?  Bolt pistols and Powerfists?  Power weapons?  Are things like missile launchers, meltaguns, and flamers worth taking?  Obviously lascannons and plasmaguns are good.


Do you think things will be changing much to account for the new Ork codex?


Thanks for the help!
-Hordini

Meltaguns and Flamers are only really good in specilized squads that have the mobility (in one way or another) to make use of them (Dropping/deepstiking or fast moving).

The biggest reason that the plasma gun is so common is that it's range is the same as that of the bolter, and if you are going shooty, that's the range you want.

These are my personal favorites.

6 man Las/Plas.
6 man w/ Meltagun
10 man w/ Vet and either flamer or Meltagun.

As for Vets can't go wrong with anything, really but 15 pt Powerfist/Bolt Pistol is a steal.

If you are talking about "take all-commers" space marines, the tactical lascannon/plasmagun configuration is your best bang for your buck.  It is cheap, focused, and steady.

Now if you are talking about an ork counter punch, heavy bolter/plasmagun is your answer.

Get some razorbacks for those 6-man squads and back 'em up with 3 pred destructors to make those ork players cringe at the mere sight of your list.  I played in the Baltimore GT and a footslogging ork player was whining and crying before we even set-up.  I am a Crimson Fist player and my list is still set-up for anti-ork configuration from the third edition.  It was the first ork player I faced in three GT's this season, but we can anticipate a resurgance with the new codex.

DAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKA!

It really depends on your army. If you are playing a static shooty army, the 6-man las/plas is king. If you're planning to get closer (via drop pods or rhinos) you can go a couple of directions:
1. Min/maxed: 5-man squads with a special weapon, mostly used to grab objectives.
2. Max/maxed: 10-man squad with power fist and special weapon(s).

Thanks a lot for the input guys! Any more details on good veteran sergeant equipment?

Power fist and bolter pistol. It's all you ever need.

I agree with PP. The Powerfist adds an enormous amount of versatility to a Tactical Squad.

It lets you deal with Wraithlords, Dreadnoughts, any tanks foolish enough to come near, Space Marine characters, etc.

I think the first thing you need to look at is whether youn plan to play a chapter that uses the combat squads rule.

Combat squads work(ish) you get a fist sgt and four marines with a melta of flamer, then another squad of five marines with a lascannon or heavy bolter.

for vanilla six marine squads are the answer, take a fist and melta/flamer or las/plas as your standard squads. Rather than increase any squad size add another squad. Save the remaining points for your characters heavy support and fast attack. If you really thinkyou need a big squad use two squads together, if yopu have filled all your slots have points to spare and still want a big squad take ten with fist sgt and a heavy bolter 'on the side', worth it for the price as a just in case after that squad should have some good 24" anti horde firepower.

That is how to minimax. The truth is you dont really need to, marines are versatile and can afford to stray from optimum build quite a way. if you like different heavy weapons take them. Plasma cannon, multimeltas and missile launchers are all workable, though not as good as a lascannon. So long as most of the squads have lascannon you need not arm them all that way if you want some variety. Ignore howls of 'they suxxor' you can win just as well with four las/plas and a multimelta/plas as you will with five las/plas.

If you plan on using a drop pod list, taking the Cleanse and Purify trait can be very useful. Take a 6 man tac squad and with that trait you can add an additional melta, plasma, or flamer. 6 man tac squads with 2 plasma guns rapid firing is pretty nasty. I usually throw in 1 or 2 pods with 6 man x2 meltas to deal with tanks.

Powerfist and bolt pistol is indeed all you ever need.

I agree with the all the advice given, with this qualifier: Marines will work pretty much no matter how you build them, so you don't need to worry about optimization. Since you're asking, I"m guessing you care about optimization and I'll recommend keeping Tactical squads small and shooty (las/plas). If you really need punch add assault marines.

I'm in the habit of using vows to take two plasmaguns (or one plasmagun and a meltagun), combined with true grit/counterassault and a vet sgt with boltpistol/power weapon. Effective, but horrendously expensive; 300-odd points.

Cool. Mixing plasma guns and lascannons, or flamers and meltaguns. That's a good idea (primarily because I already have some marines with meltaguns and flamers).

So does anyone actually use Assault Marines? Is it good to have some with plasma pistols?

Are power weapons worth it for a vet. sergeant, or should I always be going with power fists? What about plasma pistols for HQ units or vet. sergeants?


Also, does anyone use veteran marine squads, and are they useful for anything?


Thanks,
-Hordini

Personally I think 15pts is too much to pay for plasma pistols on anything, considering both the fact you will only shoot it once and it can blow up. And it really doesn't belong on vets. But some people really like to max out on plasma, which can be effective in itself.

I like to use small squads of assault marines just as an advanced unit to tie up squads. They're also a good place to take flamers and deliver Chaplains.

Yeah, I've seen that it's pretty common to put Chaplains in an assault squad, or at least give him a jump pack. How about Librarians? Would it be any good to put a Librarian in an assault squad (or just give him a jump pack?)

You can't go wrong with HQ + Jump Pack. Chaplains are nice because they provide bonuses to the squad (fearless + re-rolls) and they benefit themselves since they are pure 100% close combat. It's a win-win.

I have found, at least in our Revisited version, that a 10 man Vet w/fist, Lasand flamer combination with a transport is good. What I do is split the units into combat squads, put 5 with just the lascannon in 1 squad (basically, heavy weapon + 4 ablative wounds) then put the other 5 in a transport to act as assault/counter assault as needed.

Though I must say that in our version, 10 man squads split into combat squads can get Razorbacks, which I usually take, and these Marine squads are normally part of a Radical Inquistitorial force with several very nasty combat units in it!

But I still find that if you take 4 or 5 units split this way, you have a potent mix of shooting and assault in your army at its core, and can specialise in either direction at the players choice.

lords2001 wrote:I have found, at least in our Revisited version, that a 10 man Vet w/fist, Lasand flamer combination with a transport is good. What I do is split the units into combat squads, put 5 with just the lascannon in 1 squad (basically, heavy weapon + 4 ablative wounds) then put the other 5 in a transport to act as assault/counter assault as needed.

I bet your version doesn't have that stupid "no splitting in escalation" rule.

Man I haven't posted in a long time!

I personally go with a 6 man plas/plascan squad and mix in sgt with CC/BP or PF/BP. This allows my CC portion of the army to move up in cover of plasma fusilade. Also the added bonus is that if/when you take shooting wounds you can elect (depending on turn situation) to kill off your plas guys and still have a scoring unit on the field able to move around a bit more easily than with the heavy weapon. It is that or just remove normal marines and keep the heavy weapons and stay in fire support.

I dont know how I will work it if the "squad" thing becomes the norm, but we will reach that bridge when we get to it

Dead Horse wrote:

lords2001 wrote:I have found, at least in our Revisited version, that a 10 man Vet w/fist, Lasand flamer combination with a transport is good. What I do is split the units into combat squads, put 5 with just the lascannon in 1 squad (basically, heavy weapon + 4 ablative wounds) then put the other 5 in a transport to act as assault/counter assault as needed.

I bet your version doesn't have that stupid "no splitting in escalation" rule.

Very true - I actually think we killed escalation. Though our missions do need a bit of a rewrite, we did chop away a lot of the deadwood and stupid rules like that.