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Does anyone remember when 40k really was 28mm scale? It seems like the constant trend has been to make models bigger. (Albeit the constant tread has lasted more than 20 years I think… ) Also, Hordes/War Machine and other Sci-Fi games use large models. So I have to assume people like playing with big models.

Personally, I’d like to play a 40k style game at the model scale of Epic or Flames of War. (1-10 man squads on one base). I think it would be easier to transport and game with the smaller models. And the table size could be greatly reduced. The biggest downside is that the models wouldn’t be as detailed, and they’d be harder to paint in detail. 

For argument’s sake, let’s say it was 40k. Would people want to play 40k if GW shifted its modeling to a smaller scale?

I don’t like Epic or Flames of war. I like the style, tactics, details, and game mechanics of 40k. i.e. I like the company/skirmish scale combats as opposed to the much larger game mechanics of the other games. I just would like to see the model size on a smaller scale.

And it is impossible to play other people 40k with your Epic models if no one else has Epic models!....

~Logic

 

 

 

Hmmm, I see your point. I started in the "Rogue trader" days of '88. The boxes of 50 marines available in those days were a bargain. I think they were a little smaller, because some of the dudes I have from those good 'ole days look to be 28mm. I think that if you did like the "Epic" style, ie tiny squads on 1 base, the two games are intrinsically different.

I have played both extensively. IMO Apocalypse is a nice blending of the two.

I know for a fact that if they did downsize thier models, I would only be buying second-hand figs from now to the end of the world.

What you are saying isn't making sense to me.

Epic and flames of war have a whole unit based on a single base, so the mechanics revolve around the concept that single base is really a whole squads worth of firing.

If you shrink down 40K to epic size. . .you have epic.


But I think what you're really referring to is the old style of epic (which is still kept alive online by the 'netepic' people) in which each individual base in your epic army was moved and fired separately. If so, I personally don't care for that style of epic game as it simply takes too long to play. I personally prefer the current epic rules, and I think they're pretty darn perfect.


So yes, I'd play epic (the current version) especially if GW put full support back into it, but no I wouldn't want to play 40K rules with miniatures on a smaller scale.

People do play 40K with Epic models already. Small templates do d3 hits, big ones d6 or something and just use centimeters instead of inches.

I know of some people that did that with magnetic bases so that they could play on bus trips, etc.

I didn’t like the idea of squads on one base at first. But after some games, it’s not a bad idea.

Maybe it doesn’t have to be micro sized. But what about a significant reduction to the current 40k size?

I have huge army cases full of models. I have over 10,000 points of Marines, over 10,000 points of Necrons, and tons of various models from other armies I’ve won as tournament prizes. I’ve never really liked the large scale model size of 40k. I’d rather play something that can be easily packed away in a case and easily transported. I only play at local stores, but at least a smaller scale 40k would make it possible to play in more locations. I don’t know anyone who personally has big gaming tables and tons of terrain.  (Not to say that some people don’t). But it just takes up so much space. It’s not like sitting down and playing a game of chess or risk.

 

~Logic

Posted By Asmodai on 11/08/2007 4:19 PM
People do play 40K with Epic models already. Small templates do d3 hits, big ones d6 or something and just use centimeters instead of inches.

I know of some people that did that with magnetic bases so that they could play on bus trips, etc.

Right, but I mostly just play tournaments now. You can’t show up to the bunker with Epic scale models for a 40k game!

I just wanted to get people’s reactions to what would happen if 40k (or similar game) was reduced in model size.

It seems like a good idea to me. But the entire table top game industry seems geared toward 28mm scale or larger…. :S

I like 28 or 30 mm because it allows for more painting surfaces. However, I happen to enjoy painting armor more than skin since I'm not limited by color, so I don't enjoy the big heads GW uses. But, that's why I use helmets anyway. Stupid marines never wear helmets which is why they get killed.

I'm immensely disappointed with this thread.

One of the reasons why Inquisitor didn't do well is because of the different scale.  No one wanted to make all new terrain for a lower tier game.

Imagine if they did make 40k into 20mm or even 15mm.  Then everyone's review would be like HBMC's (except Logic's).

Is bigger really better? My wife thinks so.

Ha! Tip your waitresses! Try the veal, seriously! And there's a White Volvo station wagon in the parking lot with its' lights on!

I prefer Epic's rules, and 40K's miniature-scale. That said, it would be fun to have a "Travel 40K" kit with magnets and little Epic guys. I have enough extra Space Marines to make it work, though I'd need another army. Maybe when my 40K ork army is done, I'll buy a box of Epic orks for Travel 40K.

I'd rather see proper scaling than just smaller. It's kinda silly that a Catachan dwarfs a Marine. If Catachans put on power armour, you could use the Artemis model to represent them.

Posted By malfred on 11/08/2007 5:11 PM
I'm immensely disappointed with this

That's what she said.

Let's keep it on topic, folks.  I know, it's low and slow, right over the plate, which should make it that much more unrewarding for you.

See, the joke is that people are talking about penises.

Boo! Don't forget your roots, Lorek.

bigChris - you're the man! Your brilliant post made me laugh more than I have done for days. Even made me post...

Posted By bigchris1313 on 11/09/2007 4:40 PM
Boo! Don't forget your roots, Lorek.

Roots?  ROOTS?!  I am the Establishment now, the one who locks threads that go too far astray, who warns rude and impertinent users!  Whilst I may have once enjoyed a good OT invasion, such is my lot no longer.  My roots do, however, give me a bit of an edge at catching you folks here!

Just call me Vidkun.

Wow, man.  You used to be cool, what with your umlats and stuff.  Now you're just... the man, or something.


Attica! Attica! Attica!

OT Vanish!

An American who knows the name Vidkun? Now that was a surprise.

I don't like scale inflation.

There are still plenty of true 25mm figures on the market. AT-43 and the Halo Clix figures are about 33mm. They do not mix well.

I think there are various reasons why it happens.

Sculptors like working with more material because they can put more detail in.
Each company wants to keep customers loyal to its own system.
In GW's case, by subtly growing the figures the older ones become obsolete. (I don't know that this is policy.)

The thing about SF is weapon ranges are usually fairly long unless you invent some artificial factor that makes them short. For example, the shields in Dune prevent the use of projectile weapons and lasers. Long ranges and 1-2-1 figure scale do not mix with big figures, small tables and large armies.

40K compromises by making weapon ranges really short and movement very slow.

If you want to play battles rather than skirmish, you need to use 6mm micro-armour scale figures and vehicles, like in Epic, and allow long weapon ranges and room for manoeuvre.

Personally I like slightly bigger minis, although it's nice sometimes to get a true 28mm, maybe an RT mini, and quickly paint it up. Generally though I like heroic 28mm, and also 32 and 54. SOmehow it's more satisfying to complete and stick on the shelf.

You are definitely right.

Looking at Napoleonics, there are people who play with 28mm or even 40mm, because of the uniform detail. People who play with 6mm are not in it for the uniforms, they want the mass battle effect.

I understand where the OP was leading, and I can agree with his line of thinking, but I won't. I simply like the size and detail of the current models too much. I enjoy the modeling and painting aspect of the hobby to lose out on it in an attempt to make the game play a little easier. For the competitive gamer who really doesn't care much for the other aspects of the 'hobby', then its actually a very good idea.