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Here is my list after a few playtest games:

-HQ-

Sammael on Land Speeder = 205 pts.

Interrogator Chaplian w/ Powerfist, Bike = 175 pts.

-Troops-

Sammael's Ravenwing Squad

6 Bikes w/ 2 Melta, Standard, Apothecary w/ Powerfist Sergent
1 Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
Land Speeder Tornado
= 455 pts.

Ravenwing Attack Squad Beta

6 Bikes w/ 2 Flamers w/ Powerfist Sergent
1 Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
Land Speeder Tornado
= 405 pts.

Ravenwing Attack Squad Omega

6 Bikes w/ 2 Melta w/ Powerweapon and Meltabomb Sergent
1 Attack Bike w/ Multimelta
Land Speeder Tornado
= 410 pts.

-Fast Attack-

Land Speeder Tornado = 100 pts.

Total = 1750 pts.



11 to 14 Scoring Units, 19 Bikes, 5 Land Speeders, 3 Attack Bikes

How have your playtest games gone out of curiosity?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

He hasn't had a chance to test it yet. Hopefully, I will be his first test player.

Capt K

I'd drop one Biker squadron and take 3 cheap Predators with heavy bolter sponsons, just a bargain for 270 pts giving you decent fire support.

Also I am more of a fan of the Jetbike rather than the Land Speeder for Sammael. In the long run he is much more durrable and combat effective.

I like taking, 2 full Ravenwing squads and 2 half size squads with attack bikes. This gives the army a little more ability to deal with a more elite fighting force and give you either 2 more plasma or melta guns on the table in addition to the extra multi melta. I would also drop the chaplain and the extra junk off of the sergents for some more guns and additional speeders. The best tactic I have seen so far with Ravenwing is just to be able to get up close and personal and shoot your opponent to pieces. If the Bikes get bogged down into combat they will most likely loose that war of attrition against their opponents.

I think the jetbike version of sammael is better than the speeder version, heres why:

He won't die from a single good lascannon, melta, railgun, or venom cannon shot, whereas the speeder will be lucky if it escapes with just a shake or a stun on it.

He can fight in close combat (not well mind you but fair enough and he has decent staying power to boot) and thus tie things up that could pose a threat to the rest of your army. Tie up is always nice when you're facing an army full of hardcore shootiness with your low model count bike army.

He has a fair shooting weapon, while not the best thing ever it still functions if troops get packed together after a deep strike or a poor massacre roll.

Basically the survivability thing is the key to it all. That and I think with 4 other tornados in the list you have about as much assault cannon as you need. Then again you can never have enough assault cannon in a good competitive list. hmmm...

Other things:

Agree with negativemoney on the other changes to the list except for I'd maybe keep some form of power fist or weapon in the full bike squads. It gives your opponent something other than special weapons to worry about when he's forcing torrent of fire, deciding when to move on to a new squad to shoot at, etc. I'm not exactly sure if its worth the points though. I'd drop the chaplain and take some more regular bikes with plasma or melta. Special weapons is where this army shines, but I'm worried that if the UKGT FAQ sees carryover stateside the plasma gun option might become useless.

Matt what happened to your eyeball?

- G

I agree with the above posters that Sammael should ride a bike.
He's mean in cc and even if you're desperate you could send him.

Man whoever chooses a doof on a jetbike over an AV14 fast skimmer with TL assault cannons is just not thinking straight. Especially since either way it competes with bikes for your opponent's weapons (AP3 guns generally come in S8/S9 for most armies, barring plasma).

Unless you just really like the model, there is no reason to ever, ever field Sammeal on a Jetbike.

1) He is not an Independent Character, even though he has a mantle, he is still only T 4(5), meaning every plasmagun, powerweapon, small arms fire there is can hurt him. Even though the Land Speeder can go down in one shot, you have to dedicate anti-tank weapons at it. Plus when he has a "bodyguard" of 3-4 Land Speeders, he can provide protection by forcing TP tests.

2) Jetbike can't fire all it's weapons on the move. Unlike the superior weapons on the Land Speeder. Nuff Said.

3) 4 Str. 4 Powerweapon attacks is not worth 200+ points.

4) The Land Speeder is quicker and the Master is a scoring unit. The Land Speeder is the ultimate last minute objective grab.

The may inform my list choices, but the few test games I have had before this list has tought me some lessons about the Ravenwing, I share them now.

1) Assault is the killer to this list. There are two many units in most competitive lists that can handle three man bike squads in CC easily, even 6-man bike squads. That is why I have the Chaplin + Sammeal's Bike Squad combo. The banner plus a powerfist puts me at 4 powerfist attacks on the charge which isn't bad, but the chaplian usually rides with that squad. When he joins it, not only do you get the benifit of litanies on whatever you do assault, the chaplain get 6 attacks on the charge! The powerfist on the chaplain is something that Capt. K convinced me of. The utility of that character is amazing, plus I get an extra attack out of the deal. But needless to say, I usually play the unit as a counter attack unit and let combat squaded bike squads and attack bikes bait units out so I can counter attack and overwhelm units.

2) The Apothecary almost always makes it's points back because every model is precious. You cannot afford many casualties and still expect to win.

3) Its important to concentrate the whole of your force on only a fraction of your opponents. With the speed of your list its almost impossible not to. Deployment baiting and refused flank set ups combined with your free scout move can throw your opponent of. You have to be aggressive, but not rush into CC. Constantly hit and fade and make your opponent react to you.

4) Land Speeder Tornados, even though they cost more than the CSM version, are still worth it. Especially since they are the only ones you can purchase with your Ravenwing squads.I recommend at least 4 in a pure list because at the very least you out number any Land Speeders your opponent can bring. The assault canons are necessary if only for the lack of anti-meq shooting you have.

5) Plasmaguns are useless because you loose the assault utility.


Thanks for the comments.

Your comments make sense. By the way, I wasn't aware of Sammaels IC status.

1) He is not an Independent Character, even though he has a mantle, he is still only T 4(5), meaning every plasmagun, powerweapon, small arms fire there is can hurt him. Even though the Land Speeder can go down in one shot, you have to dedicate anti-tank weapons at it. Plus when he has a "bodyguard" of 3-4 Land Speeders, he can provide protection by forcing TP tests.

Bodyguard? Can he join a LS squadron?

3) 4 Str. 4 Powerweapon attacks is not worth 200+ points.

He certainly can take down a Dev/Havocs squad, but not a cc monster like a DP.

4) The Land Speeder is quicker and the Master is a scoring unit. The Land Speeder is the ultimate last minute objective grab.

If Sammael on jetbike is not an IC (as you said in item 1) he's a scoring unit, too. Sorry, but I don't have the codex with me.

He's a scoring unit even on a bike as he's not an IC.

After playtesting for the Baltimore GT, my buddy dropped Sammael on the bike from his list. Each game, he just never lived up to expectations. Cool model, but very limited in his effective use.

An all Ravenwing army will be a tough army to beat top tier lists with. If you want even more of a challenge (and a cool model), go with Sammael.

Yeah, stick with the LS Sammael. I just can't see a plascannon and a few normal PW attacks making his points back, and his durability isn't enough to justify his inclusion, either.

@ Mahu

My list is almost identical to yours. I would keep MotRW in the landspeeder.

- G

By the way, is Sammael's jetbike working like an Eldar jetbike?
That means, can the jetbike move in the assault phase no matter whether it charges or not?
Stupid question. But my Autarch also rides a jetbike and carries a reaper launcher. He's a decent character in my army even if he's rather expensive (155 pts).

Is Sammael's jetbike an "Eldar jetbike"? There's your answer.

Well, there are DE jetbikes, which cannot make an assault move if they don't charge.

Bodyguard? Can he join a LS squadron?

I use the term loosely. I mean he will usually run around in close proximity to the Land Speeders because he compliments their firepower and he can provide a little protection by forcing TP tests on himself.

He certainly can take down a Dev/Havocs squad, but not a cc monster like a DP.

It's still not enough to place that over a Land Speeder option.

If Sammael on jetbike is not an IC (as you said in item 1) he's a scoring unit, too. Sorry, but I don't have the codex with me.

Yep, no IC status. Scoring unit city.

By the way, is Sammael's jetbike working like an Eldar jetbike?
That means, can the jetbike move in the assault phase no matter whether it charges or not?
Stupid question. But my Autarch also rides a jetbike and carries a reaper launcher. He's a decent character in my army even if he's rather expensive (155 pts).

Nope, only Eldar jetbikes get the assault move.

To quote a favorite movie of mine:

"People will bow to it." ~J.P.


But seriously, theoryhammer is nice and all but you need NEED to playtest and do a few games to work out kinks.

After the 3 playtest games I had against this list on Saturday, it is indeed a tough list to pin down. My dice were terrible, but even then I still got smoked in the first 2 games. In the third game, I tabled the Ravenwing...no models left. I was still amazed that I won that game despite my assault marines failing a breaktest and flying off the table. That was twice in a row! It also happened at a critical moment in the second game and literally cost me that game. Oh well. I look forward to more test games vs. Mahu's Ravenwing.

Capt K

I did indeed playtest this list on Saturday versus Capt. K's Black Templars.

I am hazy as far as the report for the game, so I will go through the units and tell you how they did.

1. Sammael on Land Speeder = Performed Admirably. Like I predicted his running in front of 4 Land Speeders worked wonderfully. He died in the last two games, but CK had to dedicate anti-tank fire to do it and more than once was the Black Templars more concerned with shotting at the Master than the Land Speeders.

2. Interrogator Chaplian w/ Powerfist, Bike = Worked great. He was able to tie up or break most combats he found himself in. Even in the game I lost he got his points back by taking out a Predator and part of a shooty squad.

3. Sammael's Ravenwing Squad = 6 Bikes w/ 2 Melta, Standard, Apothecary w/ Powerfist Sergent = Worked well, the Standard is worth every single point especially when it gives the chaplain an extra attack. The only thing that didn't show in all three games was the apothecary. I am going to keep him in because I have yet to test the list against a more shooty opponent where he would have the opportunity to shine.

4. 6 Bikes w/ 2 Flamers w/ Powerfist Sergent = The flamers kinda under performed, but I expected that against a MEQ army. However, running this squad 6 strong did add another nice little CC punch. This unit got picked on the most so it is hard to tell how it will do in general.

5. 6 Bikes w/ 2 Melta w/ Powerweapon and Meltabomb Sergent = This is the one squad I Combat Squad out as harasment units and the performed o.k. The Powerweapon unit basically would join assaults to divide attackes. And I would put the 2 meltaguns into the other three to harass hard targets. They where my disposable units.

6. 3 Attack Bikes = Worked really well, I essentially would deploy them in cover and use them as a Devastator Squad. They won me the second game, by concentrating fire on an assault squad and making them run.

7. 4 Land Speeders = Basically they are the pass or fail units of this list. I learned to shift them to the fast attack category to help me in deployment. But I found running them all together and concentrating their fire on one target really lets them shine.


Things I learned:

1. Remember my scout move, but no be to anxious to use it.

2. Abandon units to assault, better to play the IG way and shoot units then counter attack. I almost lost the second game by throwing to many units into a combat I couldn't win.

Overall, a very fun army. I plan to really test them in the next Sci-Fi RTT in January. But I will keep you guys informed of how additional play testing goes.

thanatos67 wrote: I'm worried that if the UKGT FAQ sees carryover stateside the plasma gun option might become useless.

What do you mean by this?

I cannot entirely be sure what he is refering to but per RAW, the plasma option is useless. If I remember correctly in order to charge after fireing a rapidfire weapon, the gun has to be mounted on the bike. That's why you see only melta and flamer on my bikes.

Really the anti-MEQ in this list all comes from the assault potential of the chaplian and the ravenwing standard unit and the assault cannons. Agains MEQ's however, I just throw as many shots at one unit at a time and see how many stick. I did have a slight problem against the Terminator sqaud CK was fielding, but no more than other armies.