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Some issues that have come up with the new HE book.

How does ASF interact with detachments? In the detachments section it says that you resolve the attacks of the counter charging detachment before the charging unit. ASF states that the HE unit always strikes first, regardless of charge.

Dragon Prince immunity. This is a fun one. The dragon armor rule is much simpler now- models are immune to flaming and breath attacks. So it would appear that they are also immune to Screaming Skull catapult shot (counts as a flaming attack) and things with the dwarf rune of fieryness. I have seen some HE players argue that salamander attacks are also ignored, but I failed to see anywhere in the description of salamanders either flaming or breath weapon. Also seem to not protect against Tzeentch lore (not flaming), which makes alot more sense than some previous attempts to categorize them as "fire" spells.

Korhil poison immunity. In his special rules it states that he is "immune to poison, whatever its source". What an odd rule. First of all, regardless of the source seems completely superfluous- immune is immune. Second, does this mean he is immune to poison attacks or just the effects of poison? It makes a big difference- one way ghouls and chameleon skinks can't hurt him at all, the other they simply don't wound on 6s. I am inclined to believe the latter, as is the case with warmachines and the like. But then maybe that second part implies more....

Golden Crown and Talisman of Loec. Loec says you suffer an unsavable wound. Crown says you discount the first unsaved wound wound. Profit?

Sun Dragon is 30 pts more expensive for an archmage than a prince when all other mounts are the same cost. Typo?

Anyone else have things come up?

"Golden Crown and Talisman of Loec. Loec says you suffer an unsavable wound. Crown says you discount the first unsaved wound wound. Profit?"

For a wound to be unsaved, you first needed a chance to try and save it. If it's unsavable, it can't be unsaved.

How does ASF interact with detachments? In the detachments section it says that you resolve the attacks of the counter charging detachment before the charging unit. ASF states that the HE unit always strikes first, regardless of charge.

Detatchments trump the charge rule; ASF trumps all but another ASF, which defaults to initiative.

Korhil poison immunity. In his special rules it states that he is "immune to poison, whatever its source". What an odd rule. First of all, regardless of the source seems completely superfluous- immune is immune. Second, does this mean he is immune to poison attacks or just the effects of poison? It makes a big difference- one way ghouls and chameleon skinks can't hurt him at all, the other they simply don't wound on 6s. I am inclined to believe the latter, as is the case with warmachines and the like. But then maybe that second part implies more....

It makes him immune to poisoning, not the to-wound table. If the roll suffices to wound by the table, he still takes the hit.

Golden Crown and Talisman of Loec. Loec says you suffer an unsavable wound. Crown says you discount the first unsaved wound wound. Profit?

Agree with Asmodai; have to get a save to qualify.

Sun Dragon is 30 pts more expensive for an archmage than a prince when all other mounts are the same cost. Typo?

Maybe... or maybe they had some reasoning to make it harder for the caster to get a dragon... *shrug*

Asmodai wrote:"Golden Crown and Talisman of Loec. Loec says you suffer an unsavable wound. Crown says you discount the first unsaved wound wound. Profit?"

For a wound to be unsaved, you first needed a chance to try and save it. If it's unsavable, it can't be unsaved.

I'm not convinced of this. "Unsaved" doesn't imply "savable." It just requires that it was a wound and was not saved. For example, if you had no ward save and got hit with a cannonball, that's an unsavable wound, and it would certainly still qualify as an "unsaved wound."

I don't have the High Elf book to know the exact wording of the item, so I'm just commenting on what's been said here.

GW once ruled that salamander's attacks were flaming, dont know wher that is.

The Golden Crown of Atrazar reads:
"One use only. Discount the first unsaved wound, even if it is a killing blow."

This seems to imply that even wounds with no saves are prevented.

Another one: What base do dragons go on? The Giant and HE dragon both come with a chariot base. Does that mean that they are no longer based 50x50?

Nowhere in the "Spout Flames" section of the salamander's unit entry does it label the attack as "Flaming" or as a "Breath Weapon", despite the fact that it is called spout flames and the fluff makes numerous
references to fire and burning. So it appears that the Elves are not immune to the lizards attacks.

jmurph wrote:
"Another one: What base do dragons go on? The Giant and HE dragon both come with a chariot base. Does that mean that they are no longer based 50x50?

Actually, the giant comes with a 50x75 base. This particular topic has become something of a pet peeve of mine. I believe the new bases are simply an artifact of the dynamic poses of the respective models. The giant actually fits just fine on a 50x50 base. If you fill the dragon's stone pillar with something heavy, it counterbalances the forward sweep of the model, and a 50x50 works there too. The only published thing we have to go on for basing is a .pdf file Games Workshop put out a while ago. I'm going to stick with that until GW states in print that dragons & giants base sizes have changed. Because I'm not looking forward to rebasing all my monsters, thank you.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/base-chart/assets/base-chart.pdf

flaming cannonballs and flaming catapults still wound dragon princes. a cannonball is still a cannonball, afterall.

Detachment counter-charges trump charging; ASF trumps everything but other ASF rules, which default to initiative.

Any "Flaming Attack" will bounce off the princes. Even Screaming Skulls and Runed-up Bolt Throwers.

The old High Elf FAQ stated specifically that DP were not immune to spells from the Lore of Tzeentch, which are all named “fires” of various colors, and several of which are damaging attack spells. OTOH, Anthony Reynolds has stated online that the sallies ARE supposed to be flaming (and the Direwolf FAQ uses that as the basis for its ruling). Unfortunately there is NOT presently any official ruling either way on the subject. There is no FAQ yet for the new HE book, and there probably won’t be for quite a while.

Personally I think the safest and most appropriate convention is to play it that an attack doesn’t count as flaming unless is specifically says “Flaming Attack”. No matter what its fluff/name. If you play that way, neither the various Tzeentch fires nor Salamander Spout flames will get the benefits or drawbacks of being Flaming. It’s well worth establishing with your regular group, or with a tournament opponent before the game.

As stated, Korhil is immune to poison, not to the wound chart. Poison adds a special ability on top of the regular wound process. If the poison is nullified, you still roll to wound as normal. Reference poisoned shooting attacks, where if to hit modifiers mean you need a 7+ (or higher) to hit, your poison no longer works, but you can still wound as normal.

Golden Crown and Talisman of Loec seems to me to work. The caveat that it works even against KB makes clear that you don’t need to have been allowed a regular save.

Sun Dragon is what it is. It doesn’t particularly surprise me that it’s more expensive, as the killing power and durability of the dragon in combination with the mage’s casting ability is probably more valuable than the other mounts.

I'm okay with a salamanders attack being able to affect the dragon princes, but that player would also have to stipulate that wounds from the salamander can be regenerated and does not effect flammible units more than it would effect non-flammible units.

Man, how many power dice did you need to resurrect this thread?

Ba-ZING!