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My girlfriend, having seen my resurgence of interest in 40k, has become infatuated with SoB, and is in the process of purchasing and painting an army. Now, before jumping to conclusions, I am well aware of the competitive disadvantage of a SoB army, however her intent is merely for casual/friendly play. To those ends I've set about trying to construct to the best of my knowledge from the 3rd edition Witchhunters codex an army that will at least be able to have fun and not get creamed in the first 3 turns against marginally competitive armies. The one crux of this whole debate is that, she (being quite a good painter, I blame it on her fingernail painting hobby) purchased and painted to a very high quality Celestine. This means that she absolutely must have Celestine in her army (even though I know how much of a waste of points she is), no matter what. So, for your critiquing and constructive criticism, i present:

2000pts

HQ
Celestine @202
Cannoness @99
-sacred banner militant, bolter, auspex

Elites
(5) Celestians @83
-heavy flamer, flamer
(5) Celestians @83
-heavy flamer, flamer
(5) Celestians @83
-heavy flamer, flamer

Troops
(10) Battle sisters @142
-veteran, heavy flamer, flamer
(10) Battle sisters @142
-veteran, heavy flamer, flamer

Fast Attack
(10) Seraphim @274
-2 twin flamer pistols, melta bombs
(5) Dominions @183
-veretan, 4 flamers, immolator w/smoke launcher, holy promethium
(5) Dominions @183
-veretan, 4 flamers, immolator w/smoke launcher, holy promethium

Heavy Support
(2) Exorcists @270
(5) Retributors @257
-veteran, 4 multi-meltas, immolator w/ smoke launcher & multi-melta

This totals 14 faith points I believe. The gist of it is to huddle the footsloggers around the Cannoness for the fearless banner aura. Celestine leads the Seraphim, and the Dominions and Retributors serve as fast response, while the Exorcists bring up the rear and provide fire support.

Alot of stuff in the list that while they meet the supposed 'fluff' of the Sisters, are imo just junk.

Flamers, multi-meltas, heavy flamers, holy promethium, immolators, twin flamer pistols, retributors, Celestians, and Dominions are all bad choices in my view.

You don't need flame weapons, you have bolters.
Multi-meltas are horrible weapons, if they were assault I might be tempted but they aren't so they are no good.

Holy Promethium is pointless--either the other army is fearless, or what you killed is unaffectable, and the one in ten times it does something....you'll go 'woopdeedoo' I scared off a imperial guardsman.

Ground based sisters need to be in big units, or they're no damn good.

I'm not a big believer in mechanized sisters as the Rhinos are just too easy to blow up.

Saint Celestine is indeed absolutely horrid because of her 'I am so faithful if you let me die you lose faith!' rule. Like if a Smurf captain died, every Marine would lose ATSKNF. lol

Your small unit sizes don't help either.

I'll put a list up, maybe it'll help.

Oh and Sisters don't need to huddle around a Canoness for some fearless banner. Sisters don't run away.

You'll see.

2000 Pts - Witch Hunters Roster

1 Canoness @ 52 Pts
Bolter; Book of St. Lucius

1 Canoness @ 146 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Eviscerator; Book of St. Lucius; Cloak of St. Aspira; Jump Pack; Mantle of Ophelia; Master-crafted weapon
1 Mantle of Ophelia @ [15] Pts

1 Assassin Operative @ 120 Pts
Callidus Assassin; C'tan Phase Sword; Neural Shredder; Poison Blades; Polymorphine; A Word in Your Ear; Jump Back

1 Inquisitor @ 140 Pts
Bolter; Auspex; Psyocculum
1 Acolyte @ [14] Pts
Laspistol (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x1); Carapace Armour
2 Chirurgeon @ [24] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
3 Warrior @ [75] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [15] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Heavy Bolter (x1); Targeter

1 Inquisitor @ 141 Pts
Bolter; Auspex; Psyocculum
1 Acolyte @ [15] Pts
Laspistol (x1); Bolter; Carapace Armour
3 Warrior @ [75] Pts
Gun Servitor
1 Gun Servitor @ [15] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Heavy Bolter (x1); Targeter
2 Chirurgeon @ [24] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon

16 Battle Sisters Squad @ 268 Pts
Bolter (x14); Meltagun (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [72] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Eviscerator; Auspex; Book of St. Lucius; Master-crafted weapon

16 Battle Sisters Squad @ 268 Pts
Bolter (x14); Meltagun (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [72] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Eviscerator; Auspex; Book of St. Lucius; Master-crafted weapon

6 Seraphim Squad @ 209 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Twin Bolt Pistols (x4); Twin Inferno Pistols (x2); Jump Pack
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [47] Pts
Frag Grenade (Squad); Krak Grenade (Squad); Melta Bombs; Simulacrum Imperialis; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1); Jump Pack

6 Seraphim Squad @ 209 Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Twin Bolt Pistols (x4); Twin Inferno Pistols (x2); Jump Pack
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [47] Pts
Frag Grenade (Squad); Krak Grenade (Squad); Melta Bombs; Simulacrum Imperialis; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1); Jump Pack

1 Exorcist @ 149 Pts
Exorcist Missile Launcher; Dozer Blade; Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

1 Exorcist @ 149 Pts
Exorcist Missile Launcher; Dozer Blade; Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

1 Exorcist @ 149 Pts
Exorcist Missile Launcher; Dozer Blade; Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Allrighty then, here goes:

The first Canoness is your King. She holds all the Pawns in place, and before the game ends...she will die, and net you some faith.

The second Canoness can be represented by the St. Celestine model. No one will know the difference, and honestly...she's much better. Her job is to go find something nasty, and hold it in close combat forever.

The Assassin is IMHO the best elite choice around for miles. Use her to move a devastator squad behind a hill, and when she comes on, slam her into something stretched out and hold it in close combat until it's time to leave.

The two inquisitor squads are simply anti-infantry units. 9 heavy bolter shots and the ability to absorb a few hits before getting reduced to uselessness is good.

The two infantry squads should start the game about 6" apart, and move forward every turn. The two meltaguns will keep mech army transports away, and the eviscerator will keep dreadnoughts away.

The seraphim are, if needed, your last resort tank hunting units. Really what they are best at is zapping a couple assault troops dead, charging in, going invulnerable, and after his assault phase, running away to repeat it.

The Exorcists are your primary anti-tank unit. Every Sisters army needs 3 of these, since your only alternative anti-tank are crapola multimeltas or crapola IG infantry platoons with lascannons...without sharpshooter doctrine, they aren't reliable anti-tank units.

I took the above army to LA and Chicago, and did quite well with it. I realize this is supposed to be a friendly list, but by definition Sisters ARE friendly. There are lots of gimmicks and tricks, but when people get used to playing Sisters in your local store they'll start beating them.

Hope that helps.

Vaelar wrote:This totals 14 faith points I believe.

By the way, 8 Faith to start + whatever you lose is indeed 'enough'.

14 is far more than you'll need, or realistically be able to use.

Trust me, I started your way and ended up with a 100+ Sisters models...it was damn pricey and a PITA to paint them all.

Don't go down that road!

Awesome, thank you for saving me (and her) a great deal of heartbreak. She's been dying to purchase more models to paint, but i've been having her hold off until we could figure out a decent army list so she didn't spend $600 on god knows what. The little tidbits of strategy are gems, helps put things in a wholly different perspective that what I had originally been directed towards. Many thanks Stelek.

Just a couple things I noticed.

Vaelar wrote:HQ
Celestine @202
Cannoness @99
-sacred banner militant, bolter, auspex

Celestine costs 201. I agree with Stelek, she's overpriced, and better serves as a jump-canoness proxy. Celestine is on the medium base, though I recall hearing that you're legally allowed to upsize the base by one, but have never confirmed it. Not that it matters much for friendly play.

Also, looking at the banner it appears you were trying to give it to the Canoness herself. It can only go on a single Celestian in her retinue (obviously only if she takes a retinue), which doesn't change the points at all. If you want to keep the banner just simply take a Celestian squad and make it her retinue, thus becoming part of the HQ choice. But as Stelek pointed out, it's not very useful to be fearless when the book of St. Lucias is far more affordable in a few key places (as well as effective, since you can still choose not to use it if you want to try to break / fall back).


From the sounds of it, she wants an army that looks good on the table and has a style that matches the Celestine well enough? I'd suggest choice SOB purist, or at most using a single inquisitor (with a HB servitor retinue, if you're willing to spend points on non-sisters and/or want the long range support) plus an assassin (callidus, eversor, or 3 death cult are the most commonly used). At 2k I personally run a second squad of 6x seraphim with 1-2 inferno pistols as an optional armor hunter (troop and vehicle). It's part of my style, which I couldn't afford if I ran anything but SOBs.

As for sisters, I personally run mechanized. Every squad with a heavy flamer and meltagun. Stelek outlined a fine example of foot-sisters. It's mostly a matter of style (play, preference, painting, and otherwise). However you go, avoid flamers on-foot and avoid stormbolters completely.

I'd suggest you find out her general preferences. Lots of sisters? Lots of variety? Transports or no? Up close or long range (mind you sisters have to get into rapid fire range to do well)? Then go from there.

erfunk: You pretty much hit the nail on the head. She is more into the visual appeal aspect of the army, which means she wants a decent amount of sisters so she can paint a couple different color schemes for each squad, as well as variety (ie. assassins, inquisitors, etc.). As for vehicles, I don't think she's too fond of them, but she does like the Exorcists. What I was concerned about is this she have an army that appealed to her ascetic taste, as well as be competitive enough for her to have fun playing with it. One theme she's trying to stick with is as many Female characters as possible, if not an entire army of women. She likes having a large amount of troops on the table as well, and enjoys painting them, so large numbers isn't a problem.

Is there any chance that the close combat sisters with the eviscerators (can't remember what they're called) or Arco-flagellants could be useful, cause she does fancy the models, it just appeared that they weren't nearly effective enough for their cost.

No one uses them, they're absolutely horrible.

They're a Hoare legacy that will hopefully die in the next revision to SOB.

understood, but is there any way. Like, lets assumed you were trying to challenge yourself, so you decided to take the most overpriced, underperforming unit in the game. Sisters Repentia. Is there any way to make them even remotely functional?

Yes, as an ally to a list that can run lots of Land Raiders.

BT, DH, etc.

Form a wall and march them up behind the LR's.

Besides that, I really can't think of a way to make the unit perform except possibly as a CC unit for IG.

Problem is their cost, 4+ armor save, T3, I1 attacks, poor mobility, lack of Sisters rules and most critically the lack of faith.

The unit was dreamed up when 40k shifted from assault oriented to shooting oriented, and despite many requests was never fixed.

Thus it sits in limbo, unable to perform on the battlefield.

Even at 10 points cost, they'd not be played often because 40k is a game of mass--and you can only have *1* of these units.

Oh yeah, toss in 1 attack each...and for 20 points with normal assault marines costing 22, you just can't make it work well.

Having to have a 40 point priest so the squad can actually hit something is another serious drawback.

Never going in a transport is, IMHO, the final nail in the Repentia coffin.

jesus, when you put it like that..... well, i guess she can always just paint up a squad that sits in the display case

Less min-maxed flamer squads and more 11pt first rate basic infantry.

My opinion, Repentia are just overpriced. 15pts would be much more viable. Their other problem is that they are T3 4+ and have a weapon that attacks last in close combat. Fearlessness would help them, too.

One thing I would suggest is that if your girlfriend is more of a casual player keep the games to 1500, unless she really gets a kick out of the larger 2000. Sisters are varied and viable at 1500 and their lack of variety in Heavy Support is less of a weakness.

Man, flamers with the Ap1 act of faith are frigging amazing. I've seen it and run the numbers as well.


Frankly I use tons of flamers in my drop pod Marine army without faith points. They're even better in rhinos with the ap1 act.


Best suggestion I have is to buy a ton of normal girls and PROXY! If you have 50-60 sisters and a bunch of rhinos you simply can't go wrong. Play a bunch of games with different lists and put little dots on the bases to signify flamers or whatever (pre-basing).

Try out your girl's list a number of times before you equip everyone.

Just remember that a flamer on a squad of marines in cover will kill the same as a plasmagun the majority of the time (assuming 5 hits) and absolutely butcher Tyranids/IG/Tau/etc. Heavy flamers are even better.

Definitely agree with Longshot here. Divine Guidance with a heavy flamer does terrible things to your enemies...and thats even before you count the 16 or so bolter shots coming from the rest of the sisters...

But if I go the flamer route, don't I need beacoup faith points to power divine guidance?

Not really, you won't DG that much. Usually 2-3 times per game.

The problem with the Rhino based army is there are far too many armies out there that will blow them all up on turn 1.

The heavy flamer/flamer/DG bit is ok, but not very useful against players that know what it does and play accordingly.

I know I don't fear it with any of my armies, as the flamer will either kill anyway (beating my armor save) or they'll clip a few marines. No big deal really, you lose a few extra guys (sometimes) to the DG. Then you kill the Sisters...

If she doesn't like vehicles all that much, then she's going to be walking. If the sisters are walking, it's going to be hard to position flamers effectively. And if you can't get good coverage with the flamers, divine guidance won't help as much. I'd suggest you leave the flamers on the more mobile seraphim and not bank on using faith. Flamers on your troops is more effective in a mech army, since rhinos can cross the enemy's charge zone and drop the sisters off to fire in the same turn.

Remember, DG is used after you know how many hits you have. The trick is to balance setting squads up to generate sufficient hits so you get the most out of your faith while still having enough faith-generating squads. The latter being why very few people field 20 sisters together.

Back to the Sisters Repentia: yes, they have massive drawbacks. I've seen them used effectively in friendly play when there was a large terrain piece spanning the middle, as their rush forwards was well-hidden. I've also heard of them being hidden behind a rhino wall in a mech sisters army. But they're still one of the worst units in the game. If you want to proxy them as other things or use them for display purposes, that's great. I'd even suggest using them to proxy any Vet Sisters you equip with eviscerators (I give an evis to my celestian vets, if I field them, and they play counter-assault for me mid-field). Or field them in/as a zealot horde (from White Dwarf). I don't own any Repentia, though I've considered buying some to steal their eviscerators and then convert the rest into zealots.

You mentioned arco-flagellants. They're not as bad Repentia but have a lot of trouble without a place to hide, such as behind a couple of rhinos. And they require a priest being tacked onto another of your squads. In my opinion, save arcos for defense of a gun-line army. They're fun, but not something I'd field even in every for-fun army. They cease being fun when your opponent, rightly fearing them, guns them down every game.

As for fielding as many women as possible, you get quantity through walking sisters. The standard Inquisitor (not Lord) model for the Witchhunters is female. As are a couple possible models for her retinue, like the Chirurgeon (Sister Hospitaler). Retinues are flexible, so you can use a lot of different models to represent people, making more females viable. But unfortunately I'm unaware of any female servitor models. You could always use Heavy Bolter sisters.

If you're building a 2k point army, I'd consider setting it up so that you can switch things out and have choices at 1500-1850 points. Besides, you can always play Celestine as herself if you want even more variety. She's your only deep-striker, after all.

I used heavy bolter sisters in my retinues. No one even noticed.

Something I'll agree with is that flamers require transportation. I do think the transport army is much better than the walking sisters army but to each their own

Generally, if you are slogging it, you want 2 meltas and a large squad. Other than that, the heavy flamer/melta combo in a rhino has never failed me. Additionally, you really don't need to worry about Faith, assuming you still have 14 points from your original list...8 will do you fine.