Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm starting to get into Necrons and right now the group I'm apart of are into Apoc. When looking at Necrons and their Phase Out rule, why would anyone try to field a Necron army?

I know you can get around it with not taking Nec. Warriors, but there are other models that are considered "Necron". So, I'm just wanting to see what others think about taking Necrons for Apoc.?

Thanks.

just DON'T use the phase our rule as proposed in the rulebook.

Anung Un Rama wrote:just DON'T use the phase our rule as proposed in the rulebook.

Huh?

What do you purpose?

brotherskeeper74 wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:just DON'T use the phase our rule as proposed in the rulebook.

Huh?

What do you purpose?

I *think* he means that the Apocalypse rulebook suggests not using "Phase Out" at all. (Not certain, though, as I don't have the book myself.)

Seems like the prevelence of heavy vehicles in apoc would make necrons a really tough army to beat since every guy on the field caries a gauss weapon. Phase out or not, it doesn't seem like necrons should have a problem.

In the Apoc book it specifically mentions that you should feel free to throw out some rules that don't make sense and it explicitly lists Phase Out as an example of something that can be thrown out if both players agree to it.

And yes, Necrons in Apoc are awesome. Even though "glancing" the superheavies can't do all that much damage, it's still good. You definitely want some Heavy Destroyers running around.

wow, i never thought about gauss in apoc. seems very good to me....


the rulebook does have a big section on "house rules". dont know if its there, but it does mention that using necrons with the phase out can be hard and a house rule could be to drop it. does anyone think that changing it from 75% of "necrons" to 75% of points would work? or is unfair in some way?(never played or played against necrons so i'm not sure about their mechanics)

one big note: in the house rules area it basicly states that you can have more than one of the same special character(i.e eldrad, commisar yarik) by saying that a house rule would be to only play one copy of special characters....

If I was to change it I would just switch it to 90% of Necrons. Just because. Less arguments. Same fluff.

Other than just ignoring it. It's Apoc, this is a major confrontation we're talking about. No need to phase out, it's do or die.

And I would further note that if any Necron player plays Apoc and doesn't show up with BOTH C'Tan and multiple Necron Lords running around, they are no longer a true 40k player.

I think necrons have the potential to do well anywhere.

i have thought about this for the better part of the day and i'm going to have to say no, i would not be happy if phase out was changed in apoc.

what do necrons have? like 6 options besides monoliths\ctan\lords? i dont think phase out would be an issue unless you were trying to be cheesey with like 8 monoliths or something. after you put both ctan and a few liths and lords you still have a lot of points to use for "necrons" so if you allow phase out then you didnt take enough infantry.

after playing a few apoc games, i have come to the realization that troops are the most important thing in apoc. all tanks\superheavies\special chars are good, but you still have to play a decent amount of troops to be effective.

now if you wanted to run a no "necron" army, with only troops and models that dont fall under the phase out rule, I'm ok with that. just hopefully its not 15 liths

if you take away the phase out rule ... your taking away the number 1 disadvantage necrons have ... every army is balenced with advantaged and disadvantages... if you dont use phase out then theres absolutly no reason to take warriors... its going to be armys of liths', heavy destroyers, and pylons

with apoc games the winner is determined by the player with the most objectives @ the end of the game... and necrons are damn near the hardest regular troops in the game to keep dead with the apoc. datasheets their even harder to keep dead... i think taking away the phase out rule make necrons an auto-win otherwise

Are they useful in apocolypse?
Heck yeah!
Even better you dont have to take any certain selection as there are no FOC restrictions, even with the phase out rule in place.

mughi3 wrote:Are they useful in apocolypse?
Heck yeah!
Even better you dont have to take any certain selection as there are no FOC restrictions, even with the phase out rule in place.

With that, there's almost no reason not to take a Lord and Orb for just about every pair of units. 2 Units of Warriors & Lord with Orb, 2 Units of Immortals and Lord with Orb...

Why do you say that, Brother Tiberius? Lords are pretty much dead weight next to goodies like Immortals. There's no incentive to spam them beyond what you need to maintain coverage. Maybe for the multiple Veils rather than the Orbs, but things like Flank March cut down on the need for that anyway.

The issue with Phase Out isn't the Necron players, its his teammates.

We are playing 3 on 3. I'm playing Necron. The 3 enemies gang up and smoke me. Do they win by massacre? What about if there are multiple Necron players on the same team? Do they phase collectively or by detachment?

Phase Out says not to use it in missions where there is the WIthout Number limitation, if the Necrons are serious about something they won't phase. Its supposed to represent the raiders slinking back into the warp. No need for it in an apoc game.

As for the "being unbeatable" claim. Come on, Apoc isn't about trying to dominate the tourney or whatever. Its about getting some mates over, throwing your collections on the table and killing a weekend. If you make a player quit while he's still got a fourth of his army he isn't having fun. Apoc isn't even remotely balanced. There isn't any need to retain unfun stuff just because it makes a contribution to an already non-existent notion like apocalypse game balance.

Why not balance it: throw out phase-out and Well-be-back. Take away the disadvantage and the advantage of the army. You're then left with a bunch of overpriced bolter-marines that can kill anything on a '6' and teleport around, as well as the C'Tan and Monolith nonsense

Redbeard wrote:Why not balance it: throw out phase-out and Well-be-back. Take away the disadvantage and the advantage of the army. You're then left with a bunch of overpriced bolter-marines that can kill anything on a '6' and teleport around, as well as the C'Tan and Monolith nonsense

They can wound, but they don't necessarily kill.

I mention the added Lords to avoid the limitations that you tend to have in larger games with Orb coverage. I don't know many people, besides myself, that can do 3 Monoliths in a game. But even there, at say 3000 or more points, leaves a lot of points for Warriors and Immorals and all of the Other stuff. I can take my Destroyer Flotilla and put a Lord in the middle of that and move around, but those foot sloggers, even with the march, limited in their formation and ability to disperse as long as they have to keep at least one Necron from the unit within 6" of the Lord.

In that context, a 140 point Lord with Orb seems to be a better selection.

hey its apocolypse have fun with it.
i would love to run 3K with multiple destroyer lords with orb and scythe, the nightbringer and as many wraiths as i could fit in(with disrution field thingy if they can take it, i don't remember).
and do what nobody suspects-a necron close combat army.

Our gaming group back home pretty much ignores phase out for any team-style game involving necrons for the very reasons mentioned before - if the other side concentrates firepower on the necrons, then it's easy to eliminate a large chunk of the enemy army very early on. It's not just deaths, either. Sure they have WBB but with multiple armies firing you're now much more likely to wipe out units that don't have similar types within 6", or you have enough firepower to wipe out a unit as well as the tomb spyders or something. One army will be hard-pressed to wipe out a full 20-man necron squad in one go but two can do it, and it's just not fair.

I definitely say remove it in Apocalypse. There's enough mass-death that even with WBB you'll be killing plenty of them.

-Spellbound

Enough theory, now for practice. We played an Apoc Mega battle this past weekend with 15 players. I took my cadian VIII and my buddy borrowed my Necrons. He ran 3 monoliths, 2 lords with orbs (one on a destroyer body), 15 destroyers, 18 immortals, and 50 or 60 warriors.

I set up with my other friend and his cadians directly across from the necrons on an 8 foot deep table (next time we'll go 6 foot deep). My partner had 2 basilisks, 4 or 5 leman russ variants and a baneblade. I was a little more troop heavy, but I still had 2 basilisks, a leman russ and 5 armored fist squads with las/plas, hvy bolter and multi laser. Along with a third player, we pounded the necrons with artillery and direct fire for the entire game and could not wipe them out.

Granted, he moved most of his infantry into a ruined building in the center and got cover saves, but try as we might we couldn't phase him out. In the meantime his teamates hit our flanks and grabbed objectives. In hindsight I realize we should have ignored him till he tried to close the range and hammered him in open ground. As it worked out, his 3000 points absorbed the attention of 8000 to 9000 points of our imperial forces and allowed the bad guys to win.

If I play Necrons in any future Apoc games I will set up at one end of the table as close to the deployment line as is practicle. I can almost guarentee that I will win a war of attrition with any two armies that might have weapon range on mine. If my opponents can't phase me out I will contest any objectives on my end of the table and give my buddies a weaker enemy line to deal with. WIth the necron phalanx I can drop my three monoliths on my turn one and hose the enemy line.

I'm fine with the phase out rule as is, it makes your opponents waste fire while everybody else closes range.

One additional thought I had with running additional lords would be that I could take 2 units of necrons along with a lord with an orb and use them as mobile speed bumps for close combat armies. I think it would be a great way to tie things up while you continue to move the mass of Necrons with the Lords and Orbs towards another target.

Necrons rock in apocalypse!!
I have a 6000 point Necron Army and it wipes the floor with everything.
Think 4 Scarab Swarms 10 strong coming on a flank march!

Monoliths are Great with Pylon support.
Have made 3 Necron flyers Dubbed Pharaoh class (see attached pic)
plus a Necron Tombhold