Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all,

I have drawn up a 1500 point SM list that is very attacking, including: Chaplain, 6 Vets, 24 Assault Marines and 12 Tactical Marines. I have also added 3 Landspeeder Tornadoes to the list to make use of the Assault Cannons.

I would like opinions whether I should stick with this or (for the same points) take 5 Terminators with 2 Assault Cannons? I know I will lose the 3rd Assault Cannon and 3 Heavy Bolters, but I'm thinking deepstriking Terminators would be better in assault and more survivable.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Craig

In the list that you have described I would suggest taking the Terminators.

The Terminators will provide a solid close range fire base that will be mobile and have excellent staying power. The speeders would be nice but I think this list needs the armor and versatility of the Terminators.

Those speeders are easy targets for your opponents anti-tank because they have no other armor to shoot at in your list. Their vulnerability is the only disadvantage to the termies.
The speeders have more mobility, more firepower, if used as three seperate units will count as more scoring. If you can minimize opponents ability to target the speeders, I would go with three tornadoes, but you need the discipline and cover to keep those bad boys out of harms way.
In the defense of the terminators, I have been using a deep striking termie squad identical to yours and it has so far proven effective. However, I also have a termie squad in a Land Raider and I have been coordinating their deployment to deliver firepower in concert. Keep in mind, whatever you shoot with those termies will suffer casualties, and since termies must now assault what they shoot, there may not be anything in 6" assault range. Thus, leaving your termies in the open for the circle shoot during your opponents turn. In my experience thusfar with a deepstriking termie squad, they are a shooting platform, not assaulting, which the speeders would be better at due to mobility.
It is a difficult choice. I think the decision comes down to the mobility factor. Deep strike versus skimmer. What do you feel more comfortable with?

Thanks for the input from both of you.

Thats the dilema I'm having. I feel the landspeeders would overall be very good but like you say, its the chances of them making it past the first turn that has made me consider the terminators. Will so many assault marines, I don't think I'm too worried about not assaulting as much with the terminators but that would definately be a benefit I can't ignore. Like you say, its a really tough choice.

Craig

The only way I would take the tornadoes is if you can have them in 3 separate slots. otherwise don't bother. I forget if there's a doc for assault marines as troops but I don't think so.

One squad of terminators would normally be begging to get pounded, but with 24 assault marines you're going to have a lot of competition for the low Ap guns most likely.

Are your Tacticals or Vets mounted in Rhinos or are they infiltrating or drop-podded?
Sometimes, I play in competitive games Termies and Tornados.
The Tornados stay in cover, possibly reposition, until the Termies arrive to give fire support:
'countless' assault cannons targeting one enemy flank, absolutely devastating against some of my regular opponents.

Longshot, the DIY trait you're thinking of is Blessed Be The Warriors. It makes your Assault Marines Elites, IIRC, with a mandatory Vet Skill. Makes 'em pretty nasty with Furious Charge, I guess.

In response to the OP: Terminators are wonderful units...when they're not in 5-man 2-Assault Cannon suicide squads. Paying 240 points for 8 Rending shots in an enemy's backside is not very smart. As with many things, redundancy increases survivability. If you're going to field them, take a pair of 6-man squads. 12 bodies is much better than 5.

Right now though, I don't see how you could take the Speeders, as you have all three FA slots filled with Assault Marines, making the list you've described to us illegal.

If you take Blessed Be as a DIY doctrine, you can use the points you get back from tossing the LSTs to make something like this:

Jump Chappy
6 Vets
8 Vet Assault Marines
8 Vet Assault Marines
12 Tac Marines
8 Assault Marines
8 Assault Marines

Flying 33 Marines across the board at 12" per turn is downright scary.

CK

The way the squads are organised at the moment is as follows:

Elite: Veteran, Assault, Assault
Troops: Tactical, Tactical
Fast Attack: Assault, 2 Landspeeders, Landspeeder


If I took the Terminators they'd be as follows:

Elite: Veteran, Terminators, Assault
Troops: Tactical, Tactical
Fast Attack: Assault, Assault

Craig

My first thought is to go with Landspeeders. What worries me with terminators DSing is that you are going to roll a 2 the third turn, and when they come in turn 4, there will be very little that isn't in melee. You have a MESS of jump packing infantry, and so I only really see the termies getting a shot at vehicles. Nice, but perhaps not superb. It seems to me that landspeeders could conceivably fire every turn at something while zipping up the flanks, or alternately just go full out for the flank shots on the second turn etc.

It might just be me, since I have had bad luck deep striking in the past, but I just think that you can really expect the termies to show up turn 3-4 and have next to nothing to shoot, or alternately be the only target that can even be shot at when they arrive.

The other advantage I see in the speeders is that they might help pull fire away from the Assault squads.