Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As requested, my 'Over the top' Smurf list.

I took this army to the Ard Boyz.

Essentially I tried my hardest to lose my first two games at the 'Ard Boyz, and couldn't in spite of my opponents cheating at every turn. Highlight cheat: Placing a Chaos Sorc back on the board after his combat was resolved AND a second was resolved...and he didn't like the results so he changed them. Woo fun.

The last game was a standard setup and march! scenario, it was escalation...I was all on the board but for my jump packs, and despite getting a 4+ on every single unit (all mechanized Chaos) it wasn't even a game.

It's nasty. 103 Marines is a pita. Especially these guys. lol

2500 Pts - Space Marines Roster - Stelek's Guard

1 Master @ 76 Pts
Bolter

7 Devastator Squad @ 204 Pts
Bolter (x3); Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

7 Devastator Squad @ 204 Pts
Bolter (x3); Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

7 Devastator Squad @ 204 Pts
Bolter (x3); Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad @ 90 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

7 Assault Squad @ 220 Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x7); Close Combat Weapon (x7)
1 Sergeant @ [52] Pts
Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1); Terminator Honors

7 Assault Squad @ 220 Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x7); Close Combat Weapon (x7)
1 Sergeant @ [52] Pts
Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1); Terminator Honors

7 Assault Squad @ 220 Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol (x7); Close Combat Weapon (x7)
1 Sergeant @ [52] Pts
Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1); Terminator Honors

7 Devastator Squad @ 204 Pts
Bolter (x3); Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

7 Devastator Squad @ 204 Pts
Bolter (x3); Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

7 Devastator Squad @ 204 Pts
Bolter (x3); Heavy Bolter (x4); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolter; Tank Hunters

Total Roster Cost: 2500

I do not know the 'Ard boy rules, so forgive a stupid question, but how can you have 6 Dev squads?

Vanilla marine trait, so yes.

If you just making a gunline with no tanks, why not take guard?
otherwise seems like a tough nut to crack. Hoe does it do against assault armies?

Cause guard don't get as many heavy bolter shots that hit, and they don't get tank hunters, and they don't get LD10, and they don't get assault marines.

And 100 marines is a quality IG fear. Even 300 of them.

It's a bit dull isn't it?

But then again, as a non tourney player, I supose that's an easy comment for me to make. I can play whatever the hell I want! To be fair I do still run into top-tier lists. Just not so many top-tier players. Hence, I can have a "fun" army.

Do you find it a bit dull to play? What happens if you face a hoard list, in regards to movement times etc.?

Well, dull in what respect?

Lots of the same thing? Doesn't bore me if they perform. Composition is about the farthest thing from my mind, always has been at tournaments.

I have lots of 'fun' armies. This one was hobbled together with my and stjohns armies solely for the 'Ard Boyz.

Is it boring to play? Certainly not. It's a very strong gun line.

As far as moving, well...I usually only have to move the assault troops, which works out well. As far as the other guy moving, it doesn't take me long to roll the HB against horde style armies.

Setup was more draining than anything else, since it was a cobbled together army and hard to tell what was what. lol

Why no Plasma in the Tac squads?

I also don't entirely get the 6 Dev squads... Doesn't strike me as a sufficiently powergamed level of points efficiency. I play a HBolter Dev squad in my army from time to time, but I don't know if I'm so blown away by what HBolters can do, even with Tank Hunters, that I'd want that many.

I guess 6 BS4 Lascannons is probably enough, tho, so going to HBolters with the rest of the guys makes some sense.

24 HBolters is a lot.

Don't need plasma in the tac squads, the tac squads job is to punk tanks at long range.

Almost anything else the HB can handle. 24 HB is indeed alot. Tank hunters helps against all light vehicles, when facing a mechanized force. Lots of shots gives glance 6's when needed. Tau, rhino, Eldar, and IG mech don't like it. The list has some issues with Nurgle marines and TMC but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Stealer shock is highly amusing to play with this list.

So did you go 3-0 or 2-1 with this list. I faced a similiar DA list using the gen codex of course with 10-12 lascannons and two jump assault units in the final round also.

I went 1 win, 2 draws. Did my best to lose my first two games, but sadly even with me trying to lose and them cheating the idiots couldn't beat my army. Even that horrid scenario 2, and those twits at endzone letting him claim 2 quarters with 1 unit. lol the first guy I played I ran my assault units out for him to lash, then beat his lash units into submission with them. Last guy was a blessing to play, he didn't cheat so I didn't have to bitch the whole time. lol

Don't need plasma in the tac squads, the tac squads job is to punk tanks at long range.

Never understood that argument. Plasma is so cheap, and so effective in a Marine squad, can't see not taking it. For example, shave one Dev squad down to 6 guys with 3 H Bolters and you've got almost all the points you need for Plasma in your 6 Tac squads.

You've got firepower, sure, but not enough to keep ALL your squads out of 24" or 12" range all game.

It's an out of the ordinary list when it comes to power gaming, which might surprise people, but it seems a bit short on killing Power Armor, which a lot of times is the whole metagame, that's why I'd think the Plasma is a must have.

One Plasma shot kills .56 Marines. 3 HBolter shots kill .44. On the other hand, they do it 12" further off, and they do it into cover. On yet another hand, Rapid-Firing Plasma guns are vastly better. Mine have killed too many Rhinos to leave home.

I think you're onto something with the volumes of Heavy Bolter fire, it's a solid tactic that I don't see much of, but I still think the list is stronger giving up a HBolter or two, and a couple bodies, to load up on Plasma. The firepower boost, even if it's only lightly used, is worth the small cost.

Well, my experience with it is, people don't get to my side of the board.

So I removed the Plasma guns and upped the HB squads each by 1.

List worked better that way, and besides...having 4 bodies to grind through before you kill any heavy weapons in any squads, it really does help.

I can see the list having a bunch of problems against certain armies that can get to you quickly with not a lot you can do about it (new Orks for one). A lot seems covered though, since most units will have to spend at least some time out in the open and you've got the mid-range shooting to pull things down. With the Demon Bombs gone, you shouldn't be able to get too many armies pulling off charges you don't have at least some chance to react to (besides Orks, but they're new now).

Also while you have enough shooting to even put a little scare on Falcons, if they weather the fire for a turn (which they totally can do) and get their little bomb to go off, you've got issues.

You lack some objective grabbers as well, no Termies, Speeders, anything that really moves (let alone moves and fires) besides the assault marines. I can see you having a lot of problems on dense terrain boards.

Still not a bad list at all, especially given the lighter amounts of terrain that are around. You don't have to get too many objectives when the other army is dead, and you're throwing out the dice to make that happen.

The assault marines do all the objective taking.

New Orks have a heck of a time getting their army across the board against this.

Against Falcons, I shoot until they are stunned. Then I start chewing up bits of the Eldar army. Usually doesn't take long to get what's inside the Falcons to jump out, and despite all claims to the contrary 24 assault marines plus whatever else is in the area rip harlies a new one.

What if it's an objective based mission and Harlies hit your line (I'm thinking of an Eldar army with full Harlie complement)? Your mobile units are also your only real option for effective counter-assault. Surely this causes problems against canny opponents?

I like the list overall and I think I would try and find a way to include a Lib with Fury along with commander just for the Psychic hood just a personal pref of course. Fury would fit with the theme IMO.

Sure. Most armies lack template weapons I fear. (Template weapons I fear are Leman Russ rounds and that's about it.)

So if I'm playing a dangerous army, I stack my army into the middle of my deployment zone, giving myself maximum los and fire lanes; and let them come.

It's hard to kill 100 marines in 6 turns. The games I tried to lose at the ard boyz, for example...I lost less than 30 marines per game. Went up against about 50 marines in each game. Eldar are usually even more outnumbered. Numbers numbers numbers. The 'quantity has a quality all it's own' mantra really goes over the top when you run quality troops.

Yeah I thought about the Lib alot, but at the LA GT I ran into Eldrad alot and I just wasn't impressed. Since Eldar can be the best psyker army around, I figured I'd just live without.

I didn't see many effective Eldar armies at that GT, nor at the 'ard boyz or on the internet with the various forums and lists posted. I ate alot of psychic powers, but they didn't really do much of anything.

Maybe thier is no need because you don't have any ubber expensive units so who cares if he lashes/dooms/guides against a particular unit. Especially if castled and in cover. Fury would still be nice to pick out units out of LOS and force pin checks on multiple units.

Stelek,

Couple questions for ya. Have you ever tried 3 Whirlwinds with Castellan mines for your heavies? I also wondered if you ever tried giving your 5 man las squads the tank hunter trait?

Just curious.

Lemartes--very true. I got lashed alot, and I ate a bunch of Eldar psychic goodness. Didn't really do much to me.

Ebon, yeah I've tried the minefields--they just don't work very well because most people will stop on the other side, and shoot you. I did try the tank hunters on the las squads, but since I used 2 traits to get my devs setup the way they are; I couldn't give the las guys tank hunters it was too expensive.

I ran upwards of around that many marines myself. The draw back for me was that the first game the judge misinformed me about the mission, ie vp and vp for being in deployment zone. Turned out to be just vp for deployment zone only. Next mission got 24 vp on it and onto the 3rd mission. My mistake was putting the counter in the middle while he put his counter on his side. That mission really sucked hard because you deployed in a corner and only upto 12" in. So my lascannon had very little room to work.

Over all the speed of set up was key for myself being able to get to turn six. This was a major factor of the games that I played that day. It just was to much time into the game just to set up. If somebody starts to slow play you, its going to grind the list to a loose with counters. I have been so played twice now and have said nothing to the other player about it. I have had a shifty tactic played on me in my last game that I dare not talk about because of the war it would start. enjoyed my win though and my battle force box set out of it.

Why did you try to lose the first two games?

Well, Tarval, can you tell us what the shifty tactic is? lol or PM me, I'd like to know.

Whitescar I tried to lose as I had an invite over to the main event anyway. I failed to lose the first game, but I managed in the second. 3 termies took 2 quarters, it was pretty funny. Otherwise that woulda been a draw as well.
Third game I knew I was out of contention so I smashed that guy in 2 turns.

Wasn't a very satisfying or 'ard' tournament. I find the 3500 fantasy one coming up....just silly.