Red meets blue - 1750pt chaos list.

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**vogelfrei**

I'll start right away...no introduction...Chaos doesn't need such things.

2x Sorc 165
+ MoS, Lash, Icon & Bike
Obvious choice, isn't it?

1x Generic greater demon...probably a counts-as Keeper of Seecrets

For 100 points? Gimme gimme! At least there's 1 MC in the army then.
Maybe kick it out and take Adaddon as HQ choice?

Terminator squad (10) 410
+ 2x Autocannon, 4x Combi-Plasma, 1 Champ & IoK
Maybe I should throw in some Fists? What do you think?
For the tactics: The Terminators and Oblits should come into play via shocktroops - that should explain the HQ-Icons.

2x CSM (6) 105
+ Plasmagun
I had to...damn FOC, won't let me play 'Chaoswing'. Maybe cut them down to 5 men each and buy some powerfists for the terminators?

3x2 Obliterators 150
no-brainer

It's easy to extend the Army for bigger games...just add in some more terminators and oblits.
It has a lot of 2+ armour and invuls saves in it, as well as several heavy weapons...of course Lash and mobility.
Yeah, right! Mobility! I thought it would be a good idea to start with nothing but the sorcs and CSM in the table and turboboost those bikes to get in a good position to bring in the shocktroops. And of course the best tactic above all: Roll a lot of

es.

So what do you think?

**Boss Salvage**

vogelfrei wrote:I had to...damn FOC, won't let me play 'Chaoswing'. Maybe cut them down to 5 men each and buy some powerfists for the terminators?

I feel you on the loss of Chaoswing armies, but happy I never started my Dustwing. I made a Pinkwing (it ain't a Lustwing, and definitely not Opera o' Death) list for the hell of it, sorta like this but with more termies and no need to mix marks ...

On the CSM, I'd just make them 5 CSM w/ meltagun, likely with IoCU to pull down termies at range. Though I'm sure your bikers will be around to do the homering, so whatev. The meltaguns are cheap and could very well pop something that cheekily evades the oblits. Now on the list:

2x Lashers - *vomit* but at least they're bikers, so that's kinda neat modeling opportunity

Keeper of Genericity - Who are you possessing? Has to be a termi champ, which doesn't seem the best trade to me - he's 40 points w/ 4 power weapon attaks, 2/5+ save, etc! So as much as I like to see the KoG in there I don't know that you have a good delivery system for it. Unsure what else those 100 points should buy, but not Abby

Khorne Termies - Yes on the fists. Throw 4 in each unit for some intense retribution in combat. Downgrading your CSM squads to 5 + melta will get you the 40 points you need

CSM - Covered.

Oblits - Yep,

&

ftw.

Let's say you drop the KoG and want to do something a smidge different, 100 points gets you 6 Lesser Demonettes (remember those old staples of the Lustwing??) and 2 IoCU for the CSM squads ...

- Salvage

EDIT: Thanks for losing the Hitler avatar. Even with the emo bash (always nice) it was still Hitler ...

**vogelfrei**

Thanks for the great post.

The Greater Deamon would have taken over the Chaos Champ, yep. Maybe I'd drop him. That would (nearly) free up enough points for Abaddon...but what's so bad about him? The rules look great and he's the chaoz warlord!!1

PS: Oh no...don't remind me of things like Demonettes...they share their rules with those ugly & semlly Nurglescum.

Just hope the C

emons puts it right...not letting Gav write the rules would be a good start...

PPS: Yeah, I agree, that it was a tiny bit too provocative. But the pic actually fits Hitlers pivate life...that and the fact, that people tend to discuss WWII only very onesided made me upload it. And no, I'm no nazi, I stand up to my own homebrew politics.

**Boss Salvage**

You know, I just realized that you only have 1 terminator squad in there! The audacity of calling it a(n Almost) Chaoswing!

Gonna need a little bit of thinking to re-access the list. Gonna see about fitting in a second 10-man termi squad, likely at the cost of some oblits, the great demon, etc.

I say no Abby partially because his points in a 1500 point list surely aren't really worth it, and also because I frown upon taking special characters, particularly the biggest and most famous of them, in small 'normal' games. Oh, and what would Abby do? Start on board and walk with CSM? Deep strike somewhere by himself, while hoping that the other termies hit same turn to shield him a bit?

- Salvage

**Boss Salvage**

Maybe it's not what you're after, but here's a list with some real termi force behind it:

HQ
Sorcerer - MoS, lash, bike, ikon = 165

ELITES
10 Terminators - IoK, 2 reapers, 4 powerfists = 420
10 Terminators - IoK, 2 reapers, 4 powerfists = 420

TROOPS
5 CSM - IoCU, plasma gun = 100
5 CSM - IoCU, meltagun = 95

HEAVY
2 Oblits = 150
2 Oblits = 150

Lose 2 oblits and 1 bike lasher, but gain another monstrous combat unit of termi death. If you were hard on for the Double Lash build, then no dice here. If you wanted something more akin to the "nothing on table, all drops in ftw" well here you be. Questionable about having an entire enemy army blast your 1 biker, but only way to fit second biker would be to drop 2 more oblits and shuffle some weapons around ...

- Salvage

EDIT:

HQ
Sorcerer - MoS, lash, bike, ikon = 165
Sorcerer - MoS, lash, bike, ikon = 165

ELITES
10 Terminators - IoK, 2 reapers, 4 powerfists = 420
6 Terminators - IoS, 6 combi-plasma, 1 chainfist = 240

TROOPS
5 CSM - IoCU, plasma gun = 100
5 CSM - IoCU, plasma gun = 100

HEAVY
2 Oblits = 150
2 Oblits = 150

Another idea. 10 points left, maybe for 2 combi-meltas or flamers on the Khorny termies.

**usernamesareannoying**

boo on you fluffwise...

**vogelfrei**

usernamesareannoying wrote:boo on you fluffwise...

With Codex:Chaos everything is fluffy. Kharn leading a squad of 1k sons? Why not?

Boss_Salvage wrote:You know, I just realized that you only have 1 terminator squad in there! The audacity of calling it a(n Almost) Chaoswing!

I wanted to have a solid small list, wich can evolve to a Chaoswing at bigger games. So it might be called 'Chaoswing 1/2'.

Boss_Salvage wrote:
I say no Abby partially because his points in a 1500 point list surely aren't really worth it, and also because I frown upon taking special characters, particularly the biggest and most famous of them, in small 'normal' games. Oh, and what would Abby do? Start on board and walk with CSM? Deep strike somewhere by himself, while hoping that the other termies hit same turn to shield him a bit?

Deepstrike...and don't forget about the Oblits.
Abby is a IC and I actually love those special characters.

I don't like your second list at all, partitially cause of the IoS Termies. I'd never take an IoS, if I got the spare points for a different icon.
The first list is really cool. One Lash less and less Oblit-

, but it looks great - maybe switch the meltagun for another plasmatastic squad.

I'll be at home over christmas (god I hate it!) and leave my lappy here, so I won't have any internet, but maybe I can spare some time on writing a new and improved chaos list for 1750 points (you just get more toys at a higher point level)...so...happy holidays to you and the rest of dakka!!

And don't get too drunk, I know it's hard with all the family around...

**Boss Salvage**

vogelfrei wrote:I don't like your second list at all, partitially cause of the IoS Termies. I'd never take an IoS, if I got the spare points for a different icon.
The first list is really cool. One Lash less and less Oblit-, but it looks great - maybe switch the meltagun for another plasmatastic squad.

Ha, fair enough. I personally like the first list more myself too, as 1 less biker means more rock hard powerfistin' khorne termi death. Maybe you have a point on the IoS termies - the focus with terminator marks should be on keeping them on the table (reroll Ld, T5, 4+ inv) when shot after they strike or powerfist return attaks (+1 attak) when charged after they strike. IoS would be nifty if they were charging and chose what they fight (less than I5), but deep strike or 6" move means that ain't happening (and +1 init isn't keeping them on the table).

You want that second plasma gun? Simple switch would be swap 2 powerfists in a termi squad for 1 chainfist ...

Catch you after the festivities

- Salvage

**Stelek**

Yeah so the problem I see is this:

If I kill your bikes, you lose the no-scatter.

Since I have little else to shoot at, I've got nothing to do but hunt your IC's with my entire army.

I don't think very much of the combi-plas on the terminators. What happens when you have to shoot armor 13+ or you have nothing but cheap troops to shoot?

**vogelfrei**

Hi! I'm back...and hope you all had a good start into 2008.
Mine tasted a bit like screwdriver and white wine with coke.

I got an updated list here. It now is 1750 pts and no more Slaanesh...but Tzeentch...at least one guy.
And yeah, I like special characters.
Here it comes:

Ahriman 250

2x 10 Khorne Terminators 425

2x 5 CSM /w IoCG 100
(Plasmaguns)

3x 2 Obliterators 150

I could drop some Oblits and Ahriman and buy more Terminators and a bikersorc...what do you think?

Stelek wrote:
I don't think very much of the combi-plas on the terminators. What happens when you have to shoot armor 13+ or you have nothing but cheap troops to shoot?

You are aware, that those Oblits can morph LCs, are you?

Or do you think that's not enough?

**Stelek**

I just think Chaos Termies are craptasticular.

Not fearless, and the models are trashy.

Horrible weapons options, just begging to be hit by template weapons when they deep strike; and not durable enough to stay around.

Take Tzeentch? Fine, I'll bolter you to death like any other Termies.

Take Nurgle? Fine, I'll heavy weapon you to death.

Lose/lose.

Normal CSM are utter rubbish. Not fearless, need 10 to get a man's gun, and 2 sw are worthless without a reliable transport method which they don't have.

I'd not have a very good time playing against this army, it's not very competitive having Ahriwhat'sapsychictest in it. Abaddon might be slow, but no one will go near him without a force weapon. He's dead killy.

Anyway I dunno man, I think a shooty army or a mobile army will pick you apart. Khorne terminators? ".."

**vogelfrei**

I do like the models...so anyway, the army will be terminatorheavy.
I'm not sure about Ahriman...and what about that Abby & FW thing about? Whatever...you think I'm better off with something other than IoKs on my Termies? They got a huge portion of attacks.

**Stelek**

Abaddon is 5-10 WS 7 S8 power weapon attacks at I6.

He's immune to instant death, so only force weapons really have a chance at killing him.

Khorne Termies...cost twice what Khorne Zerkers do, and don't get in combat just like the Zerks don't. Getting shot dead prevents that. So I'll give you 500 close combat attacks, and you just let me shoot you a few times...see if you get to use all those attacks.

**vogelfrei**

Abby is 6-10 attacks I think...doesn't he wield a Demon Weapon who slaps his own face on a '1'?

Khorne Termies vs Zerkers:
cost vs the need of a transport
mediocre shooting vs no shooting
energy weapons vs a single fist
no skills vs fearless and fc
2+/5+ vs 3+/-.

**Stelek**

Hmm is he? Let's see....no it says 4+D6 attacks.

Yes he can slap himself, but unlike the other people that use a DW I think he's worth the risk since he's totally crazy in CC. I mean...he burns through MC like they weren't there. Re-rolling wounds with S8. Crazy.

**vogelfrei**

Yeah, he is quite tough and can beats everything in CC.
But he never will fight with 5 attacks Stelek...never.

Would you free up the 25 points for him and replace Ahriman?