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Not too complicated a question, but something that has been tough for me when facing Slaan-led lizards. How do you take out a Slaan sitting in a big block of temple guard? A flank/rear charge with an über-unit is a no brainer (lost my Slaan brick to a demonic legion bloodletter + herald flank charge, but I was being stupid with an army I've never played with), but what else works? Can it be shot seperate from the unit? Somehow it's a large target but I forget if he's one straight out or just for LOS or what ... But even then doesn't it have a hefty ward? And it can't be challenged unless almost all the guard are dead and the frog is in the front, right?

Thanks for help, hoping there are some better options than "hit the unit with 1+ ultra-combat units and hope they break / grind them down" and "snipe with cannon and hope it fails its ward" ...

- Salvage

You can shoot him if you like.

In temple guard with the slaan being the BSB...

Just don't try. I've never had mine killed, in CC or via shooting/magic.

If you have a uber bang bang / zap zap army, you can try but it's like telling a dog to stop playing with his ball. Nearly pointless.

You can try attritioning the guard away, if it's too small. I run 35-40 guard so it lasts a long time against 99% of the armies out there.

Stelek wrote:You can try attritioning the guard away, if it's too small. I run 35-40 guard so it lasts a long time against 99% of the armies out there.

Theory-hammer, I'd say that's the best solution esp for say a 16 man bodyguard.

But I've never faced nor played one (I can't resist pulling out my Carnosaur the few times I've played) so I can't say.

He is a Large Target, which makes shooting easier, but he has a pile of wounds and comes with a 4+ ward, which can be upgraded to a 2+ vs shooting for a low price, IIRC. The only reliable way is to flank/rear the unit and break him with CR.

The more points the lizard player has sunk into the Slann and his bodyguard the fewer other things he’ll have in the army. As a M4 ranked unit, the bodyguard really don’t tend to accomplish much except defending the Slann.

If you’re playing Pitched Battle, and you have a lot of magic defense, you may be able to win just by killing the rest of his army while keeping most of yours alive.

If you’re playing a scenario with reasonable bonus points for objectives, you may be able to win on said objectives (again, while killing the supporting units).

If neither of the above applies, kill the supporting units and flank/rear the big block ASAP. The bigger the bodyguard block is, the more easily and quickly you should be able to do this, as there’s not much else in the army when he’s got a really big block with a Slann.

Note that Slann + Guard count as Stubborn, with roll three dice pick the lowest on Ld 9 for all leadership checks. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think flanking will be very succesful.

And with the right banner they cause fear, making them immune to fear .

The ignore/ defend/ objectives thinking is sound to my eyes, considering the the Slaan + bodyguard can run up to 1000 points.

Shooting the slann is an option if he has just the 4+ ward (the 2+ ward thing costs 50 pts, so it diminshes he's magical abilites a bit). That depends a lot what kind of shooting you have available. Don't bother with magic missiles, though, unless the frog is only viable target. Shooting the bodyguard unit isn't generally a bad idea as the saurus are expensive and have medicore armor altough they do have t4.

Fear-outnumber is a good way to break the bodyguard unit /w slann, altough that isn't possible if either the temple guard have the tricksy banner or the saurus have immune to psychology blessing. In any case the uber-unit can generally be avoided and you can concentrate to the rest of the lizzie army. If you happen to have some hitty stuff, you can try bunching up to the bodyguard as the saurus aren't that tough. That may be more difficult than it sounds as any lizardmen player worth his salt will try to protect the slann & bodyguard from these situations.

I forgot they were Stubborn. Agh. Well, you know what you're left with.

Can't say I'm a fan of the ignore tactic, but that did come to mind. The particular frog I end up against on occasion is a 2nd Gen, magic missile lovin' toad-of-a-gun with 16 guard for a nice big unit.

I play Eshin, so my options are only so great in the shooting / CR department, though I suppose there's always the Brass Orb

- Salvage

With the BSB, don't forget the guard re-roll break tests.

Also they test on LD8, not 9. (The Slaan isn't stubborn, the unit is.)

But that said, LD8 on 3D6 with re-rolls...yeah, I've blown the roll once. Since the rest of the other guys army (minus what was beating on me in CC) was dead, and I escaped/rallied then MM his units down...well, it's a very tough shell to crack.

By the way, Temple Guard have a 4+ save, 3+ in CC.

Seems good to me...not so good against cannons, but what is?

Stelek wrote:Also they test on LD8, not 9. (The Slaan isn't stubborn, the unit is.)

Even if the Slaan is the general? I'm just asking.

Slann has to be the general. He doesn't have the Stubborn rule, so the unit gets the choice to either use his LD (with modifiers) or the unit's LD (without) for break tests. Since the Slann's Ld9, this means it's actually never advantageous to use his, as you can't lose by less than 1.

Yeah, stubborn is tricky. Took me a year to remember to play it properly. lol

Always the units LD unless a joined character has stubborn too then you can use his LD (if it's higher, see Dwarves).

I usually run my Slaan like this:

1 Slann Mage-Priest (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 660 Pts
2nd Generation; General; Battle Standard Bearer; Large Target
1 Cupped Hands of the Old Ones @ [50] Pts
1 Plaque of Tepok @ [15] Pts
1 Diadem of Power @ [35] Pts
1 Totem of Prophecy @ [75] Pts
1 0. Drain Magic @ [0] Pts

So I don't get the extra +1 to cast/dispel using the staff, but since they changed his spellcasting extra dice to be 'roll an extra die anyway' instead of 'when successfully cast, add another die' I could care less if I get +1 to cast/dispel.

I usually run a scout shaman with 2 dispel scrolls, and go hunting with magic missiles. I usually take Portent of Far, Fireball, Burning Gaze, Dark Hand of Death, and another spell. I try for another fire or death spell, give me a big magic missile but depending on what you are playing choosing a utility spell line can really help.

Rest of my army is skinks and Kroxigor's. It's annoying.

Stelek wrote:
I usually run my Slaan like this:

1 Slann Mage-Priest (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 660 Pts
2nd Generation; General; Battle Standard Bearer; Large Target
1 Cupped Hands of the Old Ones @ [50] Pts
1 Plaque of Tepok @ [15] Pts
1 Diadem of Power @ [35] Pts
1 Totem of Prophecy @ [75] Pts
1 0. Drain Magic @ [0] Pts

i run mine almost exactly the same as yours, great minds huh . i dont take the cupped hands, i take the one that gives me extra dice, but ive been thinking of changing it up a bit.

sadly for salvage, this is the slaan that he ran into last night and a few months ago. i have little advice for salvage, ive played his army 3 times and i think i pulled vics out of all of them. it sucks that jis wizards only get skitterleap. maybe the orb is the way to go.

Stelek wrote:Yeah, stubborn is tricky. Took me a year to remember to play it properly. lol

Always the units LD unless a joined character has stubborn too then you can use his LD (if it's higher, see Dwarves).

Ah ic, thanks. Our biggest problem trying to play fantasy was that we just didn't play it enough to get the rules straight, not to mention both of us had listening problems at the time.

studderingdave wrote:
sadly for salvage, this is the slaan that he ran into last night and a few months ago. i have little advice for salvage, ive played his army 3 times and i think i pulled vics out of all of them. it sucks that jis wizards only get skitterleap. maybe the orb is the way to go.

Sorry about the theatrics that game, but my anger at failing sooooo many fear tests on that multi-charge was pretty intense. 3 units were able to grind the guard down to just half before autobreaking off - imagine what all 7 would have done? It would have been something, and that banner probably saved the slaan from his first death (in your hands anyway ) ...

Oh, and I think I'll still say screw Cover of Darkness and keep using the ironguts. The fact that they DON'T have to take fear tests is worth the chance to survive your sallies / magic for a lucky turn.

- Salvage

If your playing the eshin army then use the UCOD. It is your greatest asset. Against slan lead lizards kill his support first.
First rule, dont skitterleap into anything that is right in front of the slan. You will clean it out then he will blast you.

Use the skitterleaping assassians with the multiwound weapons against the salamanders (make sure to contact a skink so you only have to fight two salamanders not three)

The same trick can be used against the kroxigores or the triad can kill them if you get a flank (gutter runners could do it if you manage to pass the fear test but that is somewhat unlikely). The rest of his army can fall to charging night runners or flanking gutterrunners (with a slan the presence of a large sarus block is unlikely)

Then just throw things at the slan's unit until the game is over. Be sure to stay out of its front arc so he cant charge anything and dont let your assassian be targeted by spells (keep him far enough back or in a large unit if this time is opon you)

If the back rank falls (unlikely but it could happen) hurridly skitterleap the master assassian into combat with the slan and watch his blubbery but die. If the assassian is already dead then just keep throwing stuff at the unit. Its fun.

All this assumes you don't have the orb and didnt kill the slan turn 1 with it.

One cool trick to remember. If he has a priest that keeps running circles arround you take two units of night runners and form a circle arround him. He cant move out and can only blast one unit. Next turn, no more priest.

Well since I changed from Saurus Warrior units (2 of them, 20 each) to about 35 Temple Guard...I've never been broken, and the Slaan always lives.

Quite the cheesehead he is, but it is Herohammer.

My hero just happens to have bodyguards that are uber.

WS4, S4, T4, 2 attacks base...good save...LD8 on 3D6 w/reroll....and let's not forget I often give the slaan the banner of FEAR ME RAWR. lolol

So nothing really makes me run anymore, and I don't know what CC units can break it.

3 Khorne Chaos Knight units, cunningly positioned on all 3 sides...ignoring my pathetic mass of skinks and charging in? Hmmm maybe!

cypher wrote:Then just throw things at the slan's unit until the game is over. Be sure to stay out of its front arc so he cant charge anything and dont let your assassian be targeted by spells (keep him far enough back or in a large unit if this time is opon you)

If the back rank falls (unlikely but it could happen) hurridly skitterleap the master assassian into combat with the slan and watch his blubbery but die. If the assassian is already dead then just keep throwing stuff at the unit. Its fun.

Good point about reducing the unit down until the toad's back is exposed, though the only skitter I can get off against the fatty is the lucky one on a 13, unless he 's a dispel or gets cocky and rolls low. So not reliable at all

And on throwing things, the slaan has 360 LOS and this particular frog usually gets one "frag everything within X inches" type of spell, so can nuke any number of guys orbiting his unit within 6" ...



- Salvage

I am unfamiliar with the Eshin Skaven, nobody around here has ever played them, so I can't offer specific advice. I just can't remember enough of what is different about the Eshin list.

Typically my advice for this kind of army is kill everything else and then win on victory points. You should have small cheap units to control table quarters. If the opportunity presents itself flank the temple guard with a cheap unit of slaves or something and hope to get lucky. Killing the skink priest(s) should be a priority then use terrain as much as possible to provide cover from the Slaan's magic. Shoot the temple guard if you have nothing better to shoot, you might get lucky on a panic test. Also if you can get them to half strength you're earning some VPs. Hope that offers some food for thought...

Swoop!