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I have been playing around with a pre-heresy Thousand Sons army.

1750 Point army Roster:[u]

Ahriman

3 Terminators w/Autocannon
Aspiring Champion w/Flamer and Powerfist

Dreadnought w/Multimelta

6 Chosen w/Lascanon and Plasma Gun

7 Thousand Sons
Sorcerer w/Warptime

7 Thousand Sons
Sorcerer w/Warptime
Rhino w/Extra Armor

Predator w/TL Lascanons and Heavy Bolter sponsons

8 Havocs w/4 Missile Launchers and IoCG

8 Havocs w/2 Heavy Bolters and 2 Autocannons and IoCG

So far I am 4-2 in tournament play. The 2 missions I lost where the RTT missions called "Scouting engagement" where you start with your 2 compulsory troops on the board, and everything else in reserve.

I think the weakness of the army is long range AP 2 weapons. I played a chaos player, and I had trouble killing his Oblits. I am not so sure you can have a top tier chaos list without Obits.

Probably right, though you could use Termies with combi-weapons for some AP2.

You could also swap some havocs for a demon prince with bolt of change and wings to get a little more Ap2.

12+24 would work for long range, and deepstriking 3 termies would probably work to get in the grill.

personally I would drop the dread and cut down on the havocs to fit in a few oblits.

pre heresy=no oblits

if you haven't you should check out the pre heresy rules on www.belloflostsouls.com it rocks

Well, pre-heresy rules aren't found on that site, actually. Just some homebrew. Going back to very old WD or RT rules is where you'd find them.

Ahriman wasn't exactly pre-heresy, ya know. If you are playing pre-heresy, why are there TS in the list?

Plasma Guns weren't either.

Don't recall multimeltas but I could be wrong about that.

Rhino w/Extra armor? You have so few vehicles, what happens turn 2 after you've popped smoke and your dread and pred are dead? Just wondering.

It's a very small army. I'd drop all the vehicles and add more marines, you just don't have enough vehicles or marines in my view.

Hard to find this as a army in character, given it doesn't seem to be pre-heresy at all.

Stelek wrote:Ahriman wasn't exactly pre-heresy, ya know. If you are playing pre-heresy, why are there TS in the list?

My army is mostly based on the Visions of War art books. They have Ahriman there, and I think he was around for the heresy. As far as the Thousand Sons goes, they are the one area I am diverting from pure pre-heresy fluff for a couple of reasons. A Thousand Sons army does not feel right without any Thousand Sons marines, and the other is that without something like them from the Chaos Codex, you are just playing expensive marines with restrictive unit selections without ATSKNF.

Rhino w/Extra armor? You have so few vehicles, what happens turn 2 after you've popped smoke and your dread and pred are dead?

They are there for a little mobility. Otherwise my whole army will be moving 6" a turn. I think I should add an extra rhino.

Hard to find this as a army in character, given it doesn't seem to be pre-heresy at all.

Each one of those units has a picture of them in the art books. That is what ties them together. That is why I am taking the Dreadnought. Chaos Dreadnoughts suck, but it is there for aesthetic reasons.

The pre heresy rules on the belloflostsouls.com are pretty extensive and well thought out. Not official but more than just "homebrew" and could be used as a guide in making your list feel more pre heresy?. Ahriman was a captain in the T-Sons back during the heresy.

How do you explain the Chosen fluff wise?

ahriman was there for the heresy, but not in his current incarnation, just like the 1k son troops.

It seems like you the TS would be a 'shock troop' pre-heresy, with other marines with similar helmets as vanilla CSM.

Well I've seen people running pre-heresy World Eaters and use the SM rules for such, using the pre-heresy paint scheme and some Forge World bits to make it look right.

The visions of war books don't take away from the fluff saying pre-heresy they were Space Marines, and after they were Chaos Space Marines.

So, to make a fluffy army you should use the Space Marines rules as that is what they were, and restrict yourself to the weapons available at the time.

Or just call it a Chaos Space Marine army, that's all it really is.

Ahriman was a Librarian.
No Chosen.
SM Dreadnoughts had the only plasmas, and didn't go crazy.
Devastator squads didn't use AutoC back then.
Space Marine Sergeants weren't known for ANY psychic powers, in ANY legion.
I vaguely recall SM Terminators from pre-heresy days using Autocannons, but only in certain legions--most used the assault cannon.

Not trying to be a di** about it, man. Just saying, it doesn't pass the fluff test--the Predator is fine, but really if you want to make a pre-heresy list for Thousand Sons run the models 'counts as' a SM army list.

Whitescar wrote:How do you explain the Chosen fluff wise?

They have Thousand Sons recon units in the Visions of War books. Chosen are just regular marines these days with infiltrate.

Stelek wrote: Just saying, it doesn't pass the fluff test--the Predator is fine, but really if you want to make a pre-heresy list for Thousand Sons run the models 'counts as' a SM army list.

Space Marines make for a much better and stronger army if you are going the pre-heresy route.

They can take land speeders which are very good for fast, mobile fire, and scoring units. They also have Dreadnoughts that do not try to kill your own guys, anti-psychic defense, small lascannons squads, and ATSKNF.

One thing I was thinking about is that they can take 4 Liberians. That means that they can throw 4 Fury of the Ancients down range. Take that xenos scum!

Land Speeders, pre-heresy? What, all 2 of them? lol

Stelek wrote:Land Speeders, pre-heresy? What, all 2 of them? lol

Just the opposite. The Imperium has forgotten a lot of their anti-gravity technology. They had a lot more anti-gravity skimmers pre-heresy than they do now. For example, they had skimming tanks and jet bikes back then.

You mean the deodorant bottle and the beakie hunks'o-metal? lol

Stelek wrote:You mean the deodorant bottle and the beakie hunks'o-metal? lol

Just admit you were wrong. It's perfectly okay for newbies to have holes in their knowledge about the 40K universe.

The list looks like a perfect example of a friendly and balanced list that has a little bit of everything. You got Terminators, a Dreadnought, Rhinos, footslogging Marines and a tank. It's going to do very well against other lists designed with the same idea.

I don't think Stelek knows how to just admit he is wrong.

Darrian

Gee, was having a fine fun convo with Blackmoor.

Go poop another party.

Blackmore, Have you had any problem with the Dread going craized with this list in tourney play?


Lake

Well, I have not used a Dreadnought yet. I have an RTT in a couple of weeks in Jacksonville that I will try it out.

I do love my dreadnoughts, but they going crazy rule is a pain. I might give it an auto cannon so it will not hurt anybody too bad.

I fear that not only does this list not have enough AP 2 weapons, but it is very immobile. That is a greater worry at this point.