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I was perusing the dex last night and saw a potentially scary way to use deffcopters.

You could build 3 units of 5 for 15 deffcopters. If you give them all big bombs and buzzsaws (I double checked the rules and you can give them both) you could drop 15 pie plates and possibly charge with 15 powerklaw attacks per squad(45 total) on first turn. Not to mention the ability to buy twinlinked rokkits per kopta, which can be fired before charging.

That's a lot of points to spend on koptas(1275 pts), and maybe not worth it, but the thought of seeing something like this in a tourney reminded me of the nidzilla lists. If you can abuse a list, people will do it.

15 pie plates vs nids, guard or orks would be devastating, and the powerklaw attacks first turn could devastate a marine army if done right.

I do see a limiting factor to the effectiveness of the pie plates is figuring out how to drop them so that you could get maximum effectiveness. IE. it would be a bit unwieldy to try to get all 15 pie plates to land right.

So am I overeacting here? Or would seeing 15 koptas in a list scare you?

GG

So all I have to do is kill 9 models and I'll probably have netted myself 1275 VPs? Sign me up!

I don't see how you're going to get a first turn charge AND drop the bombs.

So what's the math on 5 koptas charging 10 CSMs (7 with 2 hand weapons and a champ with a fist).

16 attack, 8 hit, 8/3 wound, 8/6 die, or 1.5. Fist gets 3 attacks, hits 1.5, and instakills one. So let's say two dead total (4 wounds).

But 4 koptas get to swing with their klaws, 16 attacks, 8 hit, 7ish dead.

If you'd have shot with 5 rokkits befor hand, about 3 would have hit, and kill 2 if they were in cover. So now you've gutted the unit.

That X3 might be pretty effective. But you've got to figure out a way to get 15 bikes in position where they aren't boned if you don't get first turn. And it would probably make sense to leave a klaw off one of the koptas, since it'll often not get to swing it anyway.

mauleed wrote:I don't see how you're going to get a first turn charge AND drop the bombs.

That X3 might be pretty effective. But you've got to figure out a way to get 15 bikes in position where they aren't boned if you don't get first turn. And it would probably make sense to leave a klaw off one of the koptas, since it'll often not get to swing it anyway.

That was one of my other thoughts as well Mauleed. Of course you would scout 24" so it may not be as hard as you or I might think, but I agree it could be really hard.

GG

tegeus-Cromis wrote:So all I have to do is kill 9 models and I'll probably have netted myself 1275 VPs? Sign me up!

Well they are not fearless so you could be right here Tegeus. If you can make them run away you would get the 1275 other wise, unless I'm forgetting something, you would need to kill all 15 models.

GG

If I were the Ork player, I wouldn't put too much faith in morale checks on Ld 6.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:If I were the Ork player, I wouldn't put too much faith in morale checks on Ld 6.

Morale is the massive weakness of the Orks now. Since it means that only huge mobs of Orks are competitive we can pretty much forget Trukk squads and small mobs of Stormboyz and Lootas. Needless to say I don't think the OP's Deffkopta concept would work too well.

Dude, 1300 points of gifts and we haven't even started playing?

It's very gimmicky....not sure how effective it's gonna be. Way too many ways to deal with bikes.

While it might turn out to be "gifts", it might very well not.

Turbo boosting scouts with the ability to fly over terrain virtually guarantees him excellent positioning (out of sight but in charge range). There might be a space in your deployment zone with no hidy holes near it, but if you crowd your army into it you'll auto-lose anything except Seek and Destroy

If the Ork takes first turn, you are taking 3 charges to his choice of units, from powerfist Orks, with the combat zone manipulation in his favor. If he doesn't get first turn, its likely you can't see all the Coptas because of his scouting, so you'll still take a charge or two in the bottom of the first.

If I was trying this gimmick I'd drop the buzzbombs, I don't think they will make their points back often. The name of the game is guaranteed Pfist charges in the first round. There are lists that rely entirely on never seeing CC, and they'd fold instantly if you got first turn on them.

Scouts cannot turbo boost with the scout move.

I don't see Ravenwing or Smurf scout armies doing much but looking pretty and getting shot/assaulted to death by oh everyone.

I don't think much of this theoryhammer--you really think 3 units of 5 bikes can sweep an army? Which one?

Could you post said army please? One that is tournament viable, and isn't a gimmick army like this one is.

Can beat these guys down with almost anything, for cripes sake. Shooting and assaulting are both viable.

Oh and any army that relies on getting first turn is NOT a tournament viable army.

Stelek wrote:Scouts cannot turbo boost with the scout move.

Yes, they can. If you can cite a rule that says they can't, please point us at it.

Stelek wrote:Scouts cannot turbo boost with the scout move.

Really?

I didnot know this. Can you give me a BGB reference?

Also no need to be so upset. I didn't say I would field this list nor did I say that they could "sweep" an army . I thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss.

GG

He can't. What he's going to do is tell you that dark angels' bikes can't. But no matter how many times you tell him he'll ignore the facts that:

1. Deff koptas aren't dark angels
2. Deff koptas aren't bikes

Then he does the church lady superiority dance and hi fives himself several times.

Wow, nice jackass post there mauleed! Give yourself that church lady superiority high 5, why don'tcha?

Oh right, the FAQ for Orks isn't out yet because the Codex isn't out yet.

DUH-mb.

So are you going to point the rule out to him or not?

I'm guessing not, because it's hard to point out things that don't exist, but you're the one that made the statement that it did exist.

Guys could we please keep this thread on target. I know it's hard to resist, but for my sake please stop the little flame war.

thanks,

GG

Current scouts unit with a turbo boost can't turbo boost using the scout move.

Why would it change suddenly?

I guess I don't ascribe as much malicious stupidity to GW as you guys do.

I'd post a BGB reference if I could, but the book isn't here.

IIRC, though, it's under the "scout" special rule.

If memory serves, it says they may make a regular move (Turbo boost isn't "regular") and specifically eliminates Turbo boosting.

Again, I do admit I'm doing this by memory, so please hold the flames. LOL

If someone has their BGB handy, please check the "scout" rule.

Eric

You're also wrong.

Scouts...
"any scouts may make a 'free move'. The move happens before rolling to see who goes first. All of the normal movement rules apply."

Turbo-Boosters...
"When using their turbo-boosters they may move up to 24" in the movement phase."

the special scout move does not happen in the movement phase therefore you cannot turbo-boost.

all quotes BGB.

usernamesareannoying: I wish that argument would work (since I do think no turbo-boosting during Scout moves was intended, though not written), but sadly it doesn't. Look what it says elsewhere in the BGB:

"Infantry on foot move up to six inches (6") in the Movement phase."--pg 15

So if DKs don't get to turbo-boost simply because it isn't happening in the movement phase, by the same token, all Scout moves would be impossible.

pg. 75---"....after both sides have deployed, any Scouts may make a 'free move'. The move happens before rolling to see who goes first. All of the normal movement rules apply."

mauleed is right....

you can turbo boost in a normal move. It is not excluded from scouts. The only issue I have is that you cannot assault after you turbo boost, but the turbo boosting is before the game, so thus doesn't affect your first turn moves.

Thanks for pointing this out Mauleed. I may have to get me some dethkoptas now.

Soup

@tegeus-Cromis
thanks mate, i missed that. i'll let the other guys duke this one out.

Now all you have to do is win first turn, and you'll get the grand opportunity to kill 600 points worth of marines with 1200 points worth of deffkopta.

Sign me up!!!!

The tactic doesn't require first turn.

You scout 24" to a sweet spot out of LOS and within 18" of something you want to assault. Then you assault.

I think it has to many limitations to scare me. That is an aweful lot of points tied up into 3 small units. This reminds of the days when the previous chaos codex came out and some people were up in arms about what a unit of chosen bikers with daemon armor, feel no pain, daemonic str, power weapons and all toting plasmaguns could do. They could do a lot, but would also cost 800pts.

mauleed wrote:You're also wrong.

You're 100% right about the rule and I'm HALF wrong.

I DID see this in the rules somewhere, and I found where.

I saw it in the Codex: SM, under scout bikers.
So, I was right that I saw it and that it was specifically disallowed, but it was about SM scout bikers specifically, not scouting "bikes" specifically (counting the copters & similar under "bikes").

I know many have seen the Orks codex already. I'm not one of them. Judging by your matter-of-fact speaking about the unit, I'll presume you're one who has... So, if that's the case, you'd know better than me.

My HOPE would be that the second printing of the codex would have that same specification, like SM scout bikes do.

Presuming it doesn't have the text in the codex disallowing it in the first printing, then I'd say RAI is no, but RAW is yes... with RAW being what the default is, of course.


Eric

I ran a unit of Chaos Bikers.

Bloodletter and Khorne Glaive DP in one assault phase was their record.

I used LC, Slaanesh, and Furious Charge for real amusement.

Made Eldar cry.

MagickalMemories wrote:I saw it in the Codex: SM, under scout bikers.
So, I was right that I saw it and that it was specifically disallowed, but it was about SM scout bikers specifically, not scouting "bikes" specifically (counting the copters & similar under "bikes").

While it's only tangientally relevant, you're wrong about that as well. Jetbikes are 'jetbikes', not 'bikes'. Each has it's own listing as a unit type and one is not a subset of the other.

mauleed wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I saw it in the Codex: SM, under scout bikers.
So, I was right that I saw it and that it was specifically disallowed, but it was about SM scout bikers specifically, not scouting "bikes" specifically (counting the copters & similar under "bikes").

While it's only tangientally relevant, you're wrong about that as well. Jetbikes are 'jetbikes', not 'bikes'. Each has it's own listing as a unit type and one is not a subset of the other.

Chalk one up for your ego then. Huh?

I'm NOT wrong about that. Jetbikes are bikes. I did not say they were MOTOR bikes. Nor did I say they followed the same rules as bikes. I neither said nor inferred that they were the same or similar. They ARE, however, bikes -- even if bikes of a different variety. If they weren't, they wouldn't be called jetbikes.

Why not save your comments for something tangibly useful for more than stroking your own ego?


Eric